HuggyU2

Furlough notices will probably go out on 1 July for UAL. A lot can happen between now and then and it is simply a wait-and-see game at this point.

That's good to hear. The A-10 drivers I worked with in the past were always good with a map and LLNAV. I learned more from them about VFR flying than any other "fighter community".

I doesn't develop any skill you need in a wingman? Really? This isn't FTU training. It's not even IFF. We are teaching them basic control of a jet throughout the range of its operation. I believe it's a skill I want in AF pilots that I work with. We can argue this to death. Suffice to say, I don't agree with you. VFR flying is an anathema to the USAF and it too was dumbed down during my time in the AF. "It's entirely too dangerous". I can't speak to your statement above. I'm glad to hear it but it surprises me. Speaking to the fighter pilots of my era, I got the impression it was depart IFR to the MOA or range... do your work... RTB with an IFR pickup until field in sight, then cancel for initial. If you're now departing VFR, going enroute to the area VFR, and doing a VFR RTB, then that's a big shift from what I recall. Additionally... as a T-38 PIT instructor, the vast majority of trainees we got came out of fighter/attack. They were usually very good pilots. But their VFR skills were very lacking. Every time I flew with one of them on a VR route, about 5 miles out of Randolph I would turn off their TACAN (this was A-model days). Despite all of the pre-flight planning for this sortie, very few could find the route entry point. Chasing a GPS-derived waypoint carrot "while flying VMC" really wasn't the same thing as "flying VFR" and learning to read a map.

I was just having a little fun at y'alls expense to get the thread back on track. But for me, yes, "cancel IFR" was usually an auto-fuck off. I used it every single time I was forced on to the Jacob Arrival in to the Phoenix Class B, as I passed FL180. You're not wrong since it is your opinion. However I completely disagree with you. Formation landings are well worth it. The part from 500' AGL to touchdown is a magnitude more difficult for pilots new to the T-38 and formation, and requires a lot more skill than they show on a formation approach to a restricted low approach. I recall when we passed through Laughlin years back in a four-ship, and while talking to students while grabbing lunch, we found out that "HUD-out patterns and landings" were dual-only maneuvers and a "Special Syllabus item". The look of "YGBSM" on everyone's face said it all. What else can we dumb down? Well... how about "formation landings" for 800, Alex? As unfortunate as the discussed mishap is, it is a single data point that I don't believe should erase the benefits and skills we've been teaching in the T-38 for 60 years. Just my opinion.

It warms the cockles of my heart to read that many of you know how to decline SIDS/STARS. I'm proud of your written and verbal communication skills with Air Traffic Control. Well done. In the future, how about just saying "I'll take a descent to below FL180 and Cancel IFR" ? Works every time and no one give two shits about what you filed. VFR really isn't scary. Try it some time. However, I didn’t start this thread to discuss that nonsense. I started this thread because I was very interested to continue the discussion about the value of wing landings after a very tragic incident. To Hawg15, MotoFalcon, YoungNDumb, Brabus, et al… I get your point. You don’t do wing landings in the CAF, and you see it as “increased risk with no benefit”. However, from a “risk management” view… and from a “training viewpoint”… I don’t support nor agree with you. You’re not wrong. I just don’t agree with your "risk threshold". A few thoughts: I just googled “T-38 Road to Wings”. It was the first time I’ve perused that in quite some time. I don’t see jack-shit about wing landing mishaps in there. And in all of my years of being around the T-38, I don’t recall any Class A mishaps on wing landings. Road to Wings seems to validate that. There sure are a lot of mishaps on low-levels, single-ship landings, etc… Do we still do those? Now we have the FIRST Class A fatal on a wing landing, and overnight it becomes a prohibited maneuver after 60 years? Does having a fatal outcome on a maneuver disqualify that maneuver as a good/important/valuable item to be accomplished by a military aviator in training? To my way of thinking, it is not whether formation landings are “practical”, though I believe they are. But it is also about learning a skillset of precision… control… discipline… precision… and some mastery… of something I would expect a top-notch military aviator to be able to show some competence in. Much of what is done in UPT is done to instill confidence and aggressiveness. “Aggressiveness”… is that bad word now? Should we stop flying wingwork with 3G’s and 90 degrees of bank? It appears that isn’t a “CAF maneuver”… but as mentioned elsewhere, the skillset is valuable. How interesting. “Training for a skillset”. What a concept. Yes, we need to mitigate risk. Got it. However, the nature of the beast is that we cannot eliminate it. Flying can be dangerous. And we will never stop having mishaps. I’ve done dozens… and probably hundreds… of formation landings in the T-38. I was PIT IP when we did formation touch & go’s. I was there when “leadership” got rid of formation T&G’s because they felt it was too risky. I recall pilots telling me how formation T&G’s were a dumb idea… and yet they had never briefed, flown, or debriefed one. Getting winged as an AF pilot should be challenging. And it should prepare you to fly not just within the “heart of the envelope”, but also toward the edges. And when those items are flown toward the edge, we put an IP in the jet to mitigate the risk. Those newly winged pilots will use those lessons and skills when they go off to their F-35 and B-21. If wing landings are honestly “too dangerous”, then knock it off. But are they really that dangerous? Pretty much, I’ve taken 600 words to say what Hacker said in 60. But I ask you: what else would you cut out of the UPT syllabus because “the CAF doesn’t do that?”. Reap what you sow.

Always read the fine print.

I really don't want to get in to any detail. The big picture is that the B-2 process (at the time) was handled by their O-6 OG/CC. In the U-2, nearly everything about the process is handled by the FTU.

For those of you smart on California compliant weapons... what are your picks for: - AR-type of gun - full-size handgun for the house (not a 1911). - concealed carry. All must be American-made.

It’s been over 10 years, but I went out to Whiteman to talk to the B-2 recruiting/hiring pilots. The goal was to look for things they did that we could incorporate in the U-2 process. I was fairly surprised to see that their process had almost no resemblance to how we ran the U-2 recruiting, interview and hiring process. Not that there’s was any better or worse than ours... but there was nothing I could bring back to Beale since it was apples and oranges. No clue if it has changed with the B-2 process.

Since you mention that... I'm guessing VMFA187 is a Marine C or D model Hornet driver. And I just read that the Marines are going to (or may have already started) doing the T-45 Carrier Qual (CQ) stuff after they get their wings. And only for the Marines going to a Hornet squadron with a boat commitment. Obviously, those not going to a boat unit will not see the boat in the T-45. Maybe never. Pretty big shift for the Naval Aviation community. Many moons back, one of our U-2 guys came to us from the F-14. We went and flew a T-38 two-ship and he and I were paired up in the same jet. We RTB'd for a formation approach and landing, and I had him fly it (I was an IP). He did a great job. On taxi back, he says "That's the first section landing (e.g. formation landing) I've ever done. Ever." I didn't expect that... but it made sense.

Since the topic of "formation approaches and wing landings" has come up elsewhere, I want to ask the fighter/attack folks about fingertip: is it still relevant to what you do? Or if IMC, do you depart/arrive via some sort of radar trail? What about the A-10's? Do they use fingertip more? Or do they split up to singletons? Do A-10's do wing takeoffs if there is a 600' ceiling on departure? I realize fighters can come up initial in fingertip... but is flying initial in tactical better/preferred/more common, as compared to fingertip? Bottom line: is fingertip still relevant to what you do as a fighter/attack pilot? Is the answer different if we are talking about the F-22/F-35 instead of the F-16/F-16? My personal opinions don't matter any more. Just looking to see if technology has moved us further away from fingertip. According to what I've read, formation landings aren't operationally necessary for y'all.

Are you saying there are PIT IP's that have not done a tour as a UPT IP? If so, that's crazy. It was not that way when I was in the 560th (except for a few O-5's and above, I believe).

104 aircraft built 104' wingspan F-104 cockpit. If you see one in a museum or on a pole, it was one of the 55 smaller A/C models. The last of those flew in '87. The big-wing jets: 12 built originally, then 37 more built in the 80's (as mentioned above), with the last jet being delivered Oct 1989. History info: short read with updated info on the Powers shutdown. Good stuff. https://dragonladyhistory.com/2020/05/01/u-2-mayday-shootdown-gary-powers/

Word. F'in word.

About 1060.

Sixty years ago today, Gary Powers flew the last of 28 Russian overflights in the U-2. The first was flown on 4 July 1956 by Hervey Stockman, the 17th pilot to fly the U-2 (Powers was #25). Here's to those great Americans that put it all on the line to do what the nation needed, to keep the Communist enemy in our sights. 🍺 https://www.coldwar.org/articles/50s/early_u2.asp For those of you at Laughlin AFB that haven't been to the Laughlin Heritage Foundation Museum, there's a fair amount of good U-2 history there. James Long runs the place... tell him hello and that you're stationed at DLF. https://www.laughlinheritagefoundationinc.org

Do you meet the pre-reqs, such as a Bachelor's Degree? Frankly, only you can answer your question. Do you want to be a military pilot for the next 11 years? Or would you rather stay in the airlines?

What was justification to create the T-1 almost 30 years ago is somewhat irrelevant. What can it do for the USAF now? Separate subject: I'll bet the USAF could pick up some narrow body airliners parked in KROW for way less than the cost of other T-1 replacements.

Larry does all of the photography at the big Airshow convention and formal in Vegas each year. Nice guy.

Should be little to no factor for getting hired. Lots has been posted on other threads about similar subjects (Q-3, FTU washout, etc...). Just be honest, and address it with professionalism.

True... and I feel bad for China if that happens.

Although not an assignment option for anyone here, this a good video of Dean "Gucci" Neeley talking about the NASA ER-2 mission at Palmdale on Earth Day 2020. Gucci has an incredible flying background, including the B-52, T-37, KC-10, T-38, U-2, and F-117 in the USAF.

I did my part by putting 5 gallons of 100LL in to the atmosphere.

If you're willing to type it, I'd like to read it. I spent 4 years in Del Rio many moons ago.

I'll be calling HindSight when I get a little closer to pulling the trigger. Today, I went out to fly the Cub... my first flight since 7 March... and after I flew, I was walking around the ramp with a good bud (who owns the Cub, a Stearman, and a PT-22 and has a ton of GA experience), and we saw a nice Swift taxi out. I say "You've flown the Swift. What did you think?" He says "Good... but you can get in an RV-?, go faster, have better support, do it for cheaper, and have more fun." One data point. For you U-2 guys that know Mountain, we saw him land just a few minutes after that in his RV-6, and went and looked it over. His was finished in '92 (IIRC), and it was a beautiful airplane. He's had it two years, it is is first airplane, and he is a very happy owner. FWIW, we have quite a few U-2 Drivers with airplanes in the Beale area at this time.