ViperStud

AFPC can’t get out of their own way. Same shit happened in ~2010, with FTU backed up they basically didn’t drop Vipers for 18 months. Personnelists fixed the glitch and PCS’d, only to leave the 07-09 year groups with essentially no Viper pilots. Lots of stupid 2nd/3rd order effects flow from those kind of poor decisions, not the least of which is some real mouth-breathers having a clear path to rank just because the AF desperately needs O-6s in their AFSC and year group.

You’re still buying into the false dichotomy a bit too much - few in relevant leadership positions believe in all-out war to free all of UKR. All the GOs, house members, etc. I’ve dealt with know that a (hopefully sooner than later) brokered peace deal likely keeps lines ~where they are now. UKR senior leadership won’t say that publicly, and how could they? It’s not an “compromise” if you advertise your starting point to be ceding 4 Oblasts and Crimea. That’s far less of a sticking point than future security. RUS guarantees mean nothing - they invaded twice now despite assurances post-USSR collapse and the Minsk agreements. You can’t blame UKR for wanting more than RUS assurances. They want a road to NATO, because article 5 is a security guarantee with teeth. You can’t blame Russia for not wanting UKR in NATO. That’s the sticking point, not kicking RUS out of Crimea. On a side note - my RUS simp comments not directed at everyone who disagrees with the above. They’re directed at those who don’t see they’ve been played by SCO member disinformation ops all along. We all know RUS and others ran IO campaigns during our elections and at other times, seriously get in a vault if you deny that. IMO the bigger issue isn’t if they were trying to influence a certain candidate (they weren’t), it’s that they convinced so many of us that all Western institutions are trash and that (secondary effect) someone like Putin isn’t a bad actor. I’ve been blown away by some friends who are convinced the RUS claims of UKR genocide are real despite dismissal from every intl humanitarian aid org and The Hague. Why? All those institutions are trash. 🤦‍♂️ So many have been hoodwinked by IO campaigns into looking past all the belligerent acts of our true adversaries.

Recent history matters, and UKR has had their territorial sovereignty violated twice in the last decade by the same hostile invading force. That’s a fact. Im not missing all the history of UKR-RUS, and considering my job I’m probably more well-versed on their 30-year history and current ops than most anyone here, but none of that excuses Russia’s current actions. WRT our policy, you’re right. We do not have a good track record nation building. The ME was a fvcking whack-a-mole debacle on a lot of levels, even if some of it was unavoidable. I argue this is different, though. We are supporting a sovereign nation (not trying to build one) against a long-term adversary of the west (not a bunch of radical shitheads). That particulars adversary is the second most prominent member of the SCO and has committed a host of belligerent acts against us and our allies. We are collecting a ton of info for a relatively (good argument to be had here) low cost. There are significant 2/3 order effects - want RUS to have a land bridge to Moldova? This is not AFG 2.0.

Their argument is that Boris Johnson tubed it. It’s clear he and Z met, but the content of their discussions is pure speculation. The Putin simps say he was promising unrestricted Western support (which he was/is in no position to do) and pushed for a prolonged war rather than peace. UKR had plenty of reason outside of BJ’s meeting to refuse all the concessions Russia was demanding - most of all the promise of neutrality after Russia had already invaded them twice after (A) promising security for giving nukes back and (B) the failure of the Minsk agreements. Kinda tough to blame UKR for not taking Putin at his word wrt peace deals. Where the Putin simp argument falls apart is when you ask them why not, after BJ’s “interference” with UKR, just have Russian forces about-face and take the capital. Fact is - they couldn’t. Losses were mounting and logistics were getting stretched thin. The typical Putin simp then bitches about NATO expansion, UKR war crimes that don’t exist and then eventually they start staring at their feet and whining about Comet Pizza.

Step 1 after any mishap - eat your lineup card.

Holy shit I didn’t think this kind of anti-American stupidity still existed. Please, expand on these beliefs.

Correct, I am 💯 belittling dudes who hide in AETC while simultaneously burying their head in the sand WRT current ops and playing apologist for everything America does. It’s possible to be an instructor and stay relevant. That’s what I, and so many bros at my unit, have done. I’m also accruing airline seniority while I do it. I’m happy AF, thanks, mostly because I’m not a one-trick pony. ETA: Pride in the success of our allies does not equal blood thirst. You live in a world of false dichotomies where the truth must boil down to a bumper sticker slogan. Improve your critical thinking and communication skills if you want to have meaningful adult conversations.

You were the one literally scoffing, and laughing, at dudes contributing to current ops. If you’re content burying yourself in trainers, good for you - but belittling those who want to do that AND/OR stay relevant in our country’s current military ops, that reeks of insecurity. I stand by my comment (like many) you refuse to address - it isn’t “bizarre” to be happy about seeing the people we’ve trained and advised firsthand experiencing success. You dismiss that as a bunch of dudes sitting in their parents’ basements cheering for Russian casualties while watching Red Dawn and Rocky IV on repeat. Again, that reeks of insecurity.

You’re right…rather than contribute to anything relevant to current ops, keep focusing on TP stalls and RCP landing currency. Who’s out of touch? You’re wrong about Korea and the Gulf War, BTW. SK is a top-15 economy and ranks fairly high on many QOL indices. But, that doesn’t fit in a one-liner that your brain can process so call it a loss. Gulf1 - did the coalition reach its objective (and the UN’s mandate) that Iraq withdraw all forces from Kuwait?

Context matters, brah. That was in response to Bashi’s claim that we haven’t seen a military W since WW2. OD was a military win, an UN-sanctioned one at that, even if that shitshow country remains a shitshow. Thankfully no one tried to nation-build there, considering how well it was going in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I think I struck a nerve with Bashi, she’s lashing out at me. Don’t get me wrong AETC-types, there’s nothing bad with doing the heavy lifting of instructing. I do it. I argue there’s something bad with getting so caught up in that environment that you lose sight of what’s going on in the MAF/CAF worlds. Even if family makes long deployments untenable, there are a lot of meaningful PACAF and USAFE TDYs that can keep you grounded. Take part, lest you lose touch and become a dinosaur.

What’s not bizarre is that many of us on this very forum have directly contributed to the effort of assisting this country that has been invaded by our (the West’s) second most powerful nemesis. For those of us that have, it’s not “bizarre” to take some pride in seeing our Allies succeed. Just because you’ve been hiding behind the flaming dildo shield of AETC (where your only “enemy” is some mythical timeline) doesn’t mean we’ve all been hiding there.

https://news.yahoo.com/media-ukraine-downs-russian-50-225508185.html

The Baltics joined in ‘04 (tough to blame them, bracketed by K-grad and Belarus) and since then no one near Russia joined until they invaded Ukraine. Now as a direct response to Putin invading Ukraine, Finland and Sweden are in. Zero chance of them joining pre-invasion. That’s a massive strategic failure by Putin if he was really concerned about NATO expansion Bashi, you are regurgitating Putin’s talking points.

Ummmm…no. If you think any “total war” retaliation is a given in today’s world you’re proving 4Fans’ point.

This. My point in asking for a source is that one doesn’t exist for black knight’s simplistic claim. The idea/claim that there was a concerted effort to extract government members and cede the entire country does not equate to an attempt to save 400k lives. It ignores the reality that “saving 400k lives” (mostly Russian aggressors, BTW) would have meant allowing Russia to annex all of Ukraine. If China were to attack Guam and Hawaii, would we “win” by ceding them both to save lives? I’d argue 1M lives lost to defend them would be a worthy cause. By black knight Bashi Chuni’s metrics, that defense would be another L in the win/loss column. God forbid there were a ceasefire at some point during that hypothetical conflict, he’d probably count it as two losses.

Source?

Bashi the Black Knight

You know that stalemate involved pushing them back to the 38th with a stationary, mostly non-kinetic, border for 69+ years (and counting)…and an economically thriving South Korea, right? Cool well I guess we agree now. I didn’t know you had so much respect for Biden…I’m not with you on that one. Siri didn’t catch my typo, that bitch! I award you one grammar Nazi point.

Dude there are complications to EVERY military conflict. South Korea is still independent and flourishing. Libya was stopped from pursuing nukes. Kosovo like you said ultimately got our way. GW1 and the liberation of Kuwait was a clear success. I view GW1 separately from events after 2002. My point stands, “zero success” post-ww2 is hyperbole. If we’re going to have an honest discussion, it starts with being objective.

Korea, Grenada, Libia, Kosovo, Gulf 1 are some successes off the top of my head. Our involvement in each is arguably larger than current in UKR, especially direct troop support. Take your head out of Trump’s ass long enough to read a book or two 😂

We’re not batting zero. Every single geopolitical relationship/crisis is not exactly the same and easily summed up with a bumper sticker slogan 🤦‍♂️; unfortunately that’s all some people have the brainpower to process. They are called transactional relationships. These transactions are the very foundation of international politics, especially between countries with little in common. KSA is a counterbalance to Iran; they hate each other. I spent several months in Riyadh and their military guys reminded me daily. Not to mention they essentially are OPEC. Pakistan gave us overflight rights then stabbed us in the back hiding UBL. Egypt has flailed wildly back and forth, but again - overflight. Look at some of the countries we’ve sold Vipers to just to keep a security partnership foothold in the region. Are you really arguing in favor of isolationism? Yeah, that’s worked out well in the past. Let’s just pull back completely annd everything will work out great 🥴.

Unfortunately the front runner for the nomination is on record praising the man repeatedly. Clips are easy to find. The faction I refer to are his loyal supporters who blindly support every radical claim; fortunately mainstream politicians are smart enough not to take that stance. I would rephrase your claim of “using” the Ukrainians to simply state that the enemy of my enemy is my friend, or ally. We spend far more on way less than helping to attrit the strength of our second largest geopolitical foe, one whose recent land-grabbing has scared many European nations into action. There’s plenty of room for discussion on how to support them and how much is too much. Outright dismissal of their cause because of some corruption in the government is laughable. We’ve given aid to countries like KSA, Pakistan, Egypt and a host of others for years. I’ve been TDY to places that deal only in cash and I’m certain as soon as I left some on-base offices they started handing it around. It’s a convenient excuse to drum up now when it’s been largely tolerated for decades.

Im not equating them, but unfortunately I’ve watched a few friends go deep down the path of equating Ukraine support to love for Hunter Biden. If we’d accurately poll people on three things - Ukraine apathy, Biden family hatred and Putin apologism - there would be a lot of overlap on the venn diagram. Maybe “pro-Putin” was a bit strong. R/R with “Putin apologist.”

It’s not 1v1 even if Ukraine support were to evaporate. Russia has the support of Iran, Belarus and NK via weapons and use of land/airspace during the war. China also has their back with a permanent seat on the security council to ensure the UN doesn’t write a letter that’s too sternly worded against Putin. I still don’t understand how a significant faction of our last great president’s (Reagan) party has taken the pro-Putin/Russia stance. Conspiracy theories drive people to some fvcked up places.