ViperStud

I understand, and that was a big factor in my decision to get out. I'm now anchored with the immediate family and in-laws within a 2.5 hour radius. I'm not defending AD per se, but a contract is a fvcking contract and I knew the possibilities ahead...so I said no.

No way the bros at Kadena hear about this guy. Good move, dude - you just made proving yourself an order of magnitude harder.

I don't have personal experience but I've seen this play out 2 times with AD dudes and more with Guard dudes. For the AD guys, in both cases the bonus commitment was a no-shit ADSC. Both got hit with deployments in their last 18 months, one a 179 and the other a 365. Both had a bonus commitment that took them ~1 year past 20 and tried to retire at 20. The few guard dudes I know curtailed their AGR tours and paid back the bonus. Not to lecture, but we all knew the risks when we signed/passed on the AD bonus. What did you think was gonna happen? A long track record of AD bending people over and all of a sudden they change their act? Go Guard.

Didn't see a "TDY" topic, so this is probably the best fit. Is anyone familiar with the JTR reference that allows for a RON midway through a travel leg when that leg exceeds XX hours? Basically, my RTB return is like a 30+ hour leg and several who have gone before me swear there's a reference (I can't find it) that if travel duration exceeds XX hours, then you are authorized an RON in one of your stops along the way. Many don't use the option and just deal with the disaster 3-4 leg travel day to get home to mom and the kids. I'm more of the belief that you shouldn't pass up a free night in London, etc.

I wouldn't consider living down the street from you as any kind of good deal. Most people plan to avoid such things. :)

I'll play devil's advocate - what should they do, send the MAF dudes to a Viper and the inexperienced dudes to the 35? That buys two TX courses instead of one. AFPC is in flail mode. There simply aren't enough Capt/Maj IP types to fill up the aggressors AND CAF squadrons (still need ADOs there), because assholes like me keep getting out. So, they are making lemonade out lemons. I don't disagree with anything you're saying necessarily, it's just that the problem doesn't have an easy solution.

Shack. I'll admit I'm on the fence right now as I approach 15 TAFMS, but options are a good thing right? It's entertaining to watch some dudes argue so strongly one way or another when you know it's all just an attempt to pat themselves on the back for making the "right" decision.

I've never met a single person who thought this. He was my wing CC at Shaw and was universally hated. Enlisted would openly insult him in front of officers. I heard the same from bros up in AK as well. He pulled the same shenanigans, trying to get a light bar on his Wing CC cruiser so he could pull people over, trying to ruin careers of anyone who questioned him, etc. I know my post earlier didn't make this clear TC, but I echo tac airlifter's sentiments. Despite my issues with some of your content, you've been a net positive and in some cases really made a difference. I'm glad someone established enough of a presence to get inside senior leadership's OODA loop. Keep it up.

TC, for what it's worth I look at you the same way I look at Welsh's stint as CSAF. In the beginning, there was so much hope. As time went on, the hope never materialized. Welsh eventually sold out. You eventually stopped prioritizing the vendetta against shit leadership and, instead, started caring about website traffic and shitty writing for the sake of said traffic. What happened? Did you go all-in with a new job and need to outsource JQP? If so, realize that your brand would have been better served by stepping away rather than delegating it to people who don't quite get it.

This is an ignorant statement. The bonus is irrelevant. It's not big enough to change minds regardless of airframe, duration or current $$ involved. Did anyone imagine that closing multiple FTU squadrons would have 2nd/3rd order effects when they did so in 2009/10? No, because it was all driven by politics and no one was looking at what the AF actually needed. We went through a period where training at Luke was so backed up punks were waiting 12+ months post-UPT for their FTU, so fighters stopped dropping. There was nowhere to train them. Those of us who were CGOs back then laughed at what would happen in a few years; SQ/CCs shrugged and senior leaders drank their Kool-Aid, ignoring anyone who said the sky is falling. This is a failure of leadership, not an issue with "fighters" chasing people out the door. The AF has a culture problem in general, not just in fighters.

On the ANG/AFRES side of the house, is the verbiage any different from previous years with respect to curtailing your AGR tour and simply paying back any "unearned" bonus? Specifically, confirm it's still not an ADSC, and if you curtail ARG orders the bonus won't keep you from resigning that AGR spot? I see what the PSDM says: pays in arrears on the anniversary of contract signing, designates AFRC/A3 as waiver authority for curtailing orders...blah, blah, blah. For those that have been in this situation in the past is the verbiage the same or is there some attempt to make it act more like an ADSC this time around?

Any rumors on what the ARC version will look like? That being released today as well?

Good news for us....or for Big Blue?

Dude you see everything in black and white. Either kick everyone out at 1630 with piles of work left to do or...god forbid some leaders demand mission priorotization over hacking the clock, they're burning their airmen out. No area in-between huh? I've seen officers spending time after work on PME, degrees, fitness, etc. Teaching your troops time Mgmt skills rather than letting the let orders/vouchers/etc pile up - that's a skill that'll pay dividends the rest of their lives. Letting them off the hook and teaching them that group PT is more important than the mission is what makes one a failure of leadership. I'd be curious to see the raw amount of Facebook/amazon logins as the mission work piles up. I bet you'd make excuses for that, too.

Sooooo coddled. Well, here it is folks - the reason we can't get shit done with some people.

Wow, I'm speechless. Your straw man argument is still intact. Focus on one point, find out a flaw in it and act like I'm not right at all. Throw in a shoe flag reference for good measure. My point remains that there are many ways to get more actual work done in many functional areas and it requires putting mission accomplishment first. I'm not claiming that ops is the most efficient with our time, but having the "goal" set as getting shit done (rather than hitting a specific time) is a HUGE first step. Putting a flyer in charge would change some aspects, like instilling a focus on getting shit done, rather quickly Ok I'm done feeding the troll now, guys. My bad. I'll sit back and watch New Scoobs rant now.

Yes, a huge disconnect. Nice straw man argument, numbnuts. What are TMO orders, are you even in the AF? I don't expect someone to keep people so late everyday that they can't get their kids. There are a plethora of ways to chip away at that work though: stay an hour late 1 or two days, have working lunch (like most of us do), cancel/consolidate "training" hours used as fluff. I even really like your suggestion - cnx PT in favor of that little thing called the MISSION; if that causes half the sq to fail the test then holy shit there are bigger problems with that group of individuals. Lots of people in Ops are single parents; unfortunately we have a lot of divorces. We have the same life issues everyone does. Yeah, I worked 12-hr days as a single punk. I'm not advocating that for everyone; far from it. That being said, treating 1630 as a sacred departure time without consideration of mission accomplishment, that's how you breed a group of non-supporters. There's a happy medium between what we have and your fairyland where everyone fails PT tests and loses their kids if someone has to work a little harder.

Frog, the argument wasn't that having flyers command some support function would reduce queep for that person; it's the flyer in such a position would add needed perspective to what they're actually supporting. Quick personal example - two weeks to go to PCS with no orders, TMO/training couldn't do anything without them, etc. Guess who still punched out at 1630 every day even though the flight CC said they were behind? That's right - the FSS. The same dudes that think we show up just to fly and work a 4 hour day. Leaving at 1630 with work piled up is a no-go in ops; it should be the same in the MSG. Flyers leading some of those functions as majors (the same rank of their current CCs) would lend some perspective and give those dudes valuable leadership experience before being a flying CC. Many MSG people have several command tours; we could eliminate the multiple tours AND get flyers valuable leadership experience.

This is the kind of shit "leaders" are ignorant of. They actually think we are a huddled mass waiting for their guidance. Reality may be a bitter pill, indeed....

Mods, can we put this retarded conversation about an LT measuring his wife's legitimacy via credit score where it belongs - in the WTF thread?

Tell him to join the guard. Plenty of dudes are doing that to finish up and they're getting to pin on, too. If you get passed over and can't get a guard/reserve gig as well, there are probably other factors a play. I wasn't thinking about the continuation piece. Where is it spelled out about bonus recoupment if continuation is declined? Is that in each year's ACP release? I'm not saying guys are going about it wrong, just that there seem to be a lot of WOMS in play.

So, who is smart on how much the bonus is really an ADSC? I've seen some AD dudes in my guard unit lately planning on getting out of it. Case 1 - passed over for O5 and hoping to get passed over again. He says then he can separate and pay back the unearned portion of the bonus ("earned" 25/yr since signing, so ultimately pay back the difference between that and the sum of the up-front and annual installments he's banked so far). Is this how it works for passed-over dudes? Case 2 - similar dude claiming that even if he promotes APZ he can do the same. To me, this would mean anyone can get out of the bonus if they pay it back. Any truth to this? Can one really peace out ~4 yrs into the 9 year bonus if they have the coin to pay back?

Also, and I think the bigger problem, a la Nowland: These managers are so used to being fellated by their coattail mafia that they still think their words/promises are powerful. I really thought/hoped Welsh would be different only to see him accomplish nothing and sell out post-retirement. Dudes with birds/stars on their shoulders no longer get the benefit of the doubt. We don't care what's being "worked" because we've seen management fail sooooo much - all I believe is what I observe. So, until it actually happens, I simply know you're full of shit. Nowland getting up in front of everyone and trying to sell us on their "wish list" just shows that he still thinks a general's words are meaningful. Sorry dude, you guys lost that credibility a LONG time ago. They don't recognize that yet, and won't accept it for a very long time.

Fortunately, I think we actually have this part covered. If a meaningful shooting match broke out, so many of the experienced bros would drop Mil Leave and be chomping at the bit to kill sh!theads for the USA. I know I would. I'm not talking about another "Operation Deny Christmas" that our inept politicians seem to seek out, but if a real shooting match happened, commercial travel would take a crap and the bros would get shit done. For this reason, I think the steady-state "peacetime" ops of the AF are actually the more complicated challenge.

While technically that's correct, once someone becomes "hot" for a remote that still doesn't mean they'll get tasked with one. AFPC won't slip someone already on a VML or fragged for school soon, they'll simply find the next unlucky dude for the 365. Also, high-vis hand-picked short tours (general's aide, etc) are typically ID'd a little further out and, once matched to a specific person, keep them safe from the random 365 tasking. A bright & shiny won't be derailed from their mentor's game plan simply because the STRD/TAFMS math made them "hot" on the 365 list.