FourFans

The same as the role of the HH-60, MV-22, C-130, C-17, roro ships, landing craft, infantry fighting vehicles and every other platform or logistics entity that we have to deliver sustained combat power: Complete the mission that the pointy stealth aircraft allowed to happen. In the air force specifically OCA, DCA, and SEAD assets capable of existing in a high threat environment are the zambonis of warfare: They exist to create the environment for the real politics by other means to start occurring. You can't win the war them alone, but you can't win the war without them. Measuring every asset by it's ability to survive in a high threat environment is a false premise.

Maybe 50 of them should get together and sign a letter. It worked before.

I don't get it. Could you Hauk Tuah on that for me?

As a graduate of the Army Airspace Control Course, my official response is: Last I heard, they were preaching a coordination altitude in the Flight Levels. Convergence windows? HA!! Let's face it, the Army's idea of coordination realistically boils down to: "send it and find out" With all that's developing right now, I'd love to be a fly on the wall in Wiesbaden.

How dare you bring logistics into a talk about warfare! What do you think this place is?! Task and Purpose?!

Is anyone here voting for a third candidate?

You think the US can just leave Ukraine to fend for itself after we explicitly promising that we wouldn't? Good luck with that

According the CNN's previous reporting, that's a "mostly peaceful" demonstration, right?

Depends on the amount and type of melanin in their skin.

If it's a boom operator, it's all one and the same.

I'd say the last time we had realistic goals was Desert Storm. However, being realistic and forcing our version of realistic on some other country are two different stories. If we were invaded, we wouldn't quit until we restored borders. We shouldn't expect the Ukrainians to do anything different. Expecting otherwise would be unrealistic. Is restored borders a possible outcome? Yes. Likely? No. Just recognizing the world as it is, not as I'd like it to be. Long story short 'we' as the US should have no input into the demanded outcome between two other warring nations on another continent without first understanding what the people on the continent want first.

...standing by for Biff's dibs...

If it's an opinion you'll have, that's easy. Victory is the end of hostilities and whatever the Ukrainian people are willing to define as victory, short of invasion of Russia. I would guess they'd want full restoration of territory and return of hostages. That's what I'd expect if someone invaded the US, why should they demand anything less? More to the point: It should be their call. Heaven knows they're earning it right now. It's irrational that the US gets involved in redrawing everyone else's map over there. I also belief in keeping promises. Does Ukraine really matter to us? No. Does the power of the US promise on the international stage matter? Yes. THAT'S why we should be helping: Because we said we would.

It's very difficult to explain victory to someone who's never experienced it. Maybe just sit down and watch for a while.

@pawnman @Pooter @Prozac @disgruntledemployee @nsplayr @Homestar @Snuggie @jazzdude You all just got directly called out in the debrief. Full accountability. Care to defend, retract, alter or otherwise explain your stances? Accountability is what we need and what most of you have preached.

...and never drank it... Couldn't resist.

For posterity. Go Blue!

Perhaps a stupid question, but shouldn't an event like this be handled by the uniformed cops and an attorney showing up at his work, or even his home during dinner, with a warrant and taking him into custody? The no-knock raid by 35 un-uniformed dudes armed for full assault in unmarked cars has a very gangland feel. There's gotta be more to this story.

It's a good scenario. What's not to love?

Considering the unbiased source and their historic proven track record of finding and then publishing all the details of the stories they cover, I'm sure CNN has gotten a complete picture of what's going on there. I mean, they obviously talked to at least one tank crew, so surely they've got a circumspect view. //Sarcasm - off// I was shadowed by two CNN crews for a day, once in Iraq, once in Afghanistan, against my will while flying C-130's with multiple stops in theater. My crew and I outright refused to talk to them. Both of those CNN teams published articles that were completely fabricated and included exaggerations of danger encountered and even went so far as to quote my crews and their supposed negative opinions of their experiences in combat. I had several other crews report similar events with both CNN and Fox reporters. Never trust a single word of their field reporting that you can't corroborate from a third party source. Beyond that, I've had several other events with CNN reporters. They lie outright. CNN and it's reporters have no integrity and they exist solely to push whatever agenda they choose that day. I have no doubt that tanks are bullet magnets. They're kinda supposed to be. Modern combat is evolving fast, and I have sincere doubts that Ukrainian tank crews are able to keep up. Enthusiasm can only get you so far. Tactical proficiency is mandatory. They're definitely behind the power curve right now.

I remember watching Harriers doing partial down vectored takeoffs routinely at Kandahar as well. Always puzzled me as the airfield should have been plenty long enough. I would speculate it's a procedural thing.

...sounds exactly like the USAFA offensive coaching staff. Run the option again, they'll never see it coming...

Why do you think that? It's not like we have a weak-on-international-policy presidential administration right now. I mean, come on...look at how secure our own borders are! I'm sure the world is more than happy with the limp-wristed enforcement of our international presence right now. Nothing to see here. /sarcasm switch - off/

No, he speaks like he understands the dynamics of modern high-intensity ground conflict. His points about non-static defense and breakthroughs are spot on.