brabus

Shack. Not the way I understand it. The instrument square can pretty much be checked with any flight, but you only get one per month. With only 8 sorties per month for Exp, it makes sense only 1 is a non-tactical counter (in theory). That leaves 7 of some tactical flavor to log. NE-MX, force support, etc. are all options. In fact the new RTM specifically prohibits logging RAP on AOS movements (despite the argument of logging TI by shooting the tanker 69 million times). True, and I'm sure Jaded's DO is clearly getting leaned on by those above, so it's not entirely his fault. However, even in the shitty position my wing's in, neither DO or CC from either squadron has ever tried to force guys to log RAP through no-fly threats, etc. I don't know what Jaded's leadership situation is, but it sounds like there's some issues if the DO is forced to resort to that option.

Is it more on a case-by-case basis with "those guys," i.e. log red air if they're scheduled to fly red, regardless of the fact they still got a couple BFM sets in (i.e. log BFM) or is it sq-wide and the "gear in the well = RAP" mentality no matter what? If it's the latter, then that's a shitty situation and bad on the DO.

Good question. It's become even worse in the recent past with how low our sortie rate is. The "get airborne = log RAP" idea is getting stronger as people reach more and more to make squares green on some powerpoint slide. The irony is this idea is even worse now that dudes aren't even flying at a BMC rate, yet some want them to log RAP on a flight that goes out to the airspace and turns right around for wx with no tactical training accomplished (and yes, they've already logged their one instrument RAP counter for the month). All that is accomplishing is making already NCMR pilots even more NCMR, if there is such a thing...I'm sure you get my point. Dudes need to call a spade a spade, not log bullshit RAP, and not be afraid to let big AF know how 90% of the wing is NCMR for X,Y, Z reasons. Pencil whipping the shit out of RAP only makes us worse and less lethal.

Copy, my bad. Anyways, my comment was more a generic RAP comment and not really directed at you. I've just been in the XC situation before and told I needed to log RAP...yeah right. Valid. In fact just the other day we ended up pre-vul tanking, fought ONE vul, then went home and training/scheduling said, "yeah but you tanked...so that's two RAP sorties." No it's not, now kill yourself. I even had one guy try to argue that the point of RAP was to just start the jet and take off, therefore every time you get airborne you should log RAP...he told me this after I just had a takeoff EP and landed. According to him I should log RAP for that "sortie"...retard.

I love the XC RAP argument: "just take a valid 120 on an airline and log it as TI." No, go fuck yourself. I'm not a complete "RAP snob" and will do my best to get some blue training when flying red air, for example, but if all I did was drive and die then RTB to an ILS...its red air. Between these two scenarios, the recent RAP cuts and MX, the bullshit logging of RAP has to end. Don't be a douche about it, but at the same time your bullshitting yourself and others if you claim you got valid, tactical training on some of the crap I've seen guys log (and in the past I've been talked into logging).

There are multiple DP tests out there besides the standard "circles" test the AF uses. I have a friend who was able to pass other DP tests and was granted a waiver. So, it is possible, but he did have a pretty difficult uphill battle. A recruiter's word is worth jack shit...don't give up.

My mind was just blown thinking about what it must be like to be at a wing that actually can produce that number of sorties...please have your MX call our MX. Sounds like an awesome day of flying and killing...well done.

The real question is do you guys have a bar that's a foot wide, but a mile long?

I heard they'll even let you fly in the front seat since they're all IPs, and all that costs is an extra six pack of Zima. What a deal! I mean you set it up yourself. You can probably trying calling the OSS scheduling office and talk to one of the NCOs there that deal with the incentive/fam program, but once again, they don't owe you shit. Be polite, ask the question of what week is best for THEM, what can you do to make the process easy for them (i.e. maybe you can call and set up doc appt, egress, etc. so they don't have to), etc. Again, beer or something they like for their troubles is absolutely warranted. Since you're in CA, either Luke or Klamath (no experience with them) may be the best bet for a fighter ride. If you want to get a -135 ride, the Phoenix dudes are pretty willing to do so as time/schedule allows. UPT/IFF would work the same way, but that's of course a farther travel for you.

1. Get a chamber card 2. Get your Det/cc to sign an MFR stating you are authorized a Fam flight 3. Key word fam, not incentive. This means you can more or less jump in an open backseat that's available presuming you have the pre-reqs completed (flt doc clears you, have someone teach you egress and life support has you fitted up with gear) and it works for whatever mission that jet is flying that day An incentive ride means a flight scheduled specifically for you...do not consider this an option, as it's meant for that dude busting his ass on the line day in and day out for years on end, not some cadet. 4. Bring copious amount of beer and Jack to pay off individuals helping you out 5. You may end up getting multiple rides in a week trip (for example) or you may get none...don't bitch regardless of what happens and be glad you even have a chance This avenue pretty much leaves your options to an AETC base (i.e. FTU or UPT/IFF).

"Everyone" might be just a bit of an exaggeration. 2

Nope, but thanks for asking. Right, I said I was an expert on DT/OT. Care to put any more words in my mouth? Noted...I've got nothing left to argue on the internet and I'm done. Think what you want, I don't care. Copy, you know what I'm thinking, but I don't. Sure, that makes sense. That author is not the only dude, but since you seem to be fixated on my one honest question to Falling...no, I absolutely was not accusing him of anything.

Nickel on the grass Spoo - Well done.

You inferred incorrectly...I absolutely was not accusing anyone (except for the author of that article) of scoffing the program based on XYZ. It was an honest question to falling. I never said I have some great know-all info about the intricacies of the program, but I (along with many other people) know a little more than whatever some people are reading out there. There's some HUGE problems in this bastardized DT/OT phase. There's some super fucked up stuff that isn't even close to what it should be. I think we're on the same page, the difference is you are arguing from the standpoint of what the program currently is and I'm arguing from the standpoint of what it should (will???) be in a few years. I admit I may be way overly optimistic and I'll call a spade a spade if we get a half-assed shit pie 5 years down the road. The reason I think there's a chance of the "promised capes" working is because of what you said: the DoD has created a too-big-to-fail program and LM will most likely solve the majority of the issues. This sidebar as reached its max limit on the internets...

Why do you think I said rhetorical question and left it at that? Dude, relax a bit...I am not saying this is the greatest thing since sliced bread and I'm as happy as the rest of you about the DoD's awesome idea of putting all its eggs in one basket. But the truth is we've said fuck in front of mom and we need something to happen soon to replace our aging fleet. SLEP, etc. goes a little ways, but it's not the 100% answer and it's not even a quick fix. I'm not addressing anything outside the scope of an internet forum, but just look at this shit above. If you agree with those statements, then I don't even know what to say. That's it, that's all I'm "defending" this jet against.

I'm not saying it's the greatest invention ever or it doesn't have issues, but I will point out when idiots talk out their ass and make completely retarded claims like Spinney does. Here's a RHETORICAL question for you...how much do you know about the aircraft beyond the news, op ed pieces, the Air Force Crimes, WOMs heard at the bar, etc? I'm just sayin...

I don't give a shit about job possibilities in the future, It has nothing to do with that...there is no way in hell I would put my wife and kid on a plane with no pilot, ever. And I guarantee you 98% of the population feels the same. This won't happen even if just for the simple fact the airlines know it would be company suicide to venture down this road.

Not a chance in hell.

Guam's a good time, but unfortunately never got around to diving. I'll have to make it a point next time.

Wow...and I thought Guam Ctr was bad.

Yep, Outlook "rules" are where it's at...have several email addresses on my auto-delete rule.

When I moved to my current base a neighbor welcomed us to the neighborhood and then proceeded to tell me about CGOC and when they met. I told him thanks, but no thanks I wouldn't be going. He then asked why, and since he was a nice guy and I didn't want to be an asshole, I just simply told him I work 12+ hour days, do not get any kind of a lunch break and with what little free time I have when not TDY/deployed I'm spending it with family. His mind was absolutely blown that I didn't get any kind of a break and he just couldn't understand why I couldn't make it to the club at 1200 for the lunch since it was "official business." The shoes just don't get it and they never will.

Sarcasm...and thanks Rainman, my neck does just fine with NVGs.

Hell, I didn't even know a NVG counterweight existed until this thread...must be nice.

I haven't looked at the sunglass rack in a mil clothing store for about 6 years now, but I also remember them being about 30 bucks, yet they sell for double and triple that elsewhere. Guess the AF has a good contract with the company or something.