SocialD

LOL ya, most of my peers and I are well past the, will do anything to "get to fly a fighter" stage of our lives. My prediction is that anyone with 20 years will just get out and guys who are short will look for the gigs you mentioned, or just get out as well. I'm not 100% on that and would have to research. It's my understanding that it's dependent up on what status you went on the TSP...12301d or 12304b (vol vs non-vol). I'm thinking that the guys who chose non-vol would be protected by dwell. You're probably right, I was just passed info wrt 11Fs. It seems as if the AF is hell-bent on wrecking the ANG and NGB is letting it happen. They're basically gutting our LRS and MX leadership (E and O) in a year we're scheduled to deploy an aviation package (plus man alert back home). Their (NGBs) answer when pushed back is that you have other Guard units in your state, lean on them to get the aviation package deployed/redeployed. I imagine this will start the process of gutting the Guard of it's highly experienced, full time force. People with 20 years will start jumping on those Title-5 (non-deployable) gigs, or the Guard will turn into the AD where you can't keep experience...which is why they're doing this in the first place.

Thought I'd bump this back to the top. Got more than just a rumor that they may be starting to non-vol 11Fs from the ANG here soon. Should be interesting to see how this pans out. If this happens it will be interesting to see if there is a spike in papers being dropped like supposedly happened with the reserve KC-135s going to 120-day deployments.

No, the comment "there is no money in cargo..." is fNWA pilots pissed because Delta got rid of NWA cargo operation. That phase was said by some upper level management type when asked why we were getting rid of the old NWA cargo operation. A fNWA guy can't taxi passed a cargo plane with out making that statement....it's not a jab at cargo, it's a jab at DAL management. I sometimes just ask why I say Delta when I key the mic and not NWA...usually gets the conversation going. 🤣

This thread has pancake bunny or defensive egg potential.

You won't get hours very fast in fighters. After seasoning (2ish years after training is complete), many of our young guys are going to regionals to build up their total time.

Lol, now that funny. On the flip side, my fleet is mostly fNWA guys and they have their fair share of alligator arms as well. The fNWA Captains also rarely ever do a walkaround while the fDAL guys almost always split them (NB fleets at my base anyway). I really couldn't care less as I always assumed it was my responsibility and don't mind the extra steps. Now former North Central guys...haven't met a bad one yet! Ya but that's a double edged sword, because then all you get to hear about is how much better they did everything at NWA. Or how DAL is terrible for getting rid of the 747 or SOPA/SMAC. Or the ever favorite when we taxi past a cargo jet, you get to hear them mumble, "there's no money in cargo..." EVERY...TIME! You can almost set your watch by it. 🤣

Nunya makes a funny joke and you go offensive...WTFO?

Understand and agree with you, it's some good pay especially if AGR isn't even an option. Just interested in what triggers you guys giving them a GS-12 spot. I sure wish this had all been around when I was a fresh Captain and offered a GS-12 step 1 which had a base pay closer to the current GS-11 rates. I knew I was never going to get my 20 AGR so I would have jumped on an ART at the current pay rates.

From my very limited experience with AF aero clubs, the governmental bureaucracy of an aero club is a PITA. I'm in the process of researching options for starting my own club (mostly squadron mates) and there is lots of information out there. I've found it useful to reach to a club and talk to others who have started one or are currently running one...lots of useful information. Here are a few links to starting a club. AOPA Flying Club Flying Club Resources Club Finder

Are they getting something more than mil pay + SSR table? GS-11 in my local is 78k, even with mil pay it's probably just shy of 100k. When you consider the retirement points/tax free/Tricare, they're probably better off as an AGR...if that's even an option. Until this thread, I didn't even realize they hired mil pilots into GS-11 spots, we've always hired into GS-12 minimum (even 1LTs). With this new SSR tabel, GS-12 is now more respectable and more on par with AGR pay. We have mid level captains at GS-13 step 3-5 and they are killing it. Not a bad way to bid your time until you get mins for the airlines.

You've just now lost faith? Welcome to the club brosef! 7-8 years ago we had one of these staff lifers show up and be our OG. Dude made numerous bizarro changes, including making a few of us interview for the jobs we were already in. Then he informed me that it was no longer an AGR spot but GS-12 Step 1 (massive paycut for me). That's when my faith went sub-zero and I blasted to the regionals. In the end, this was the best thing that ever happened to me. I think that's what got me on so early at Delta, which allowed me to quickly get to be a WB FO. I've worked 2.5 days (sim training) this month and I'm 99% sure I won't actually step foot in a Delta cockpit this month. The staff has a way of creating lifers who rarely step foot outside of Arlington/Crystal city. Slides are green, it must all be good! Never mind the handful of fighter squadrons that can't keep 20 pilots on the LOXs and have to work their peoples balls off to make the mission happen. I'm sure the squadron that only has 17 pilots, and is about to lose 4-5 more, will be just fine! BTW, the head of the OG council just finished IOE at his Legacy airline...nothing to see here!

Lick on tattoos.

Further proof that leaderships take on this issue is that it's not a problem, until it's a problem. Things are starting to get even more interesting in the ANG as well. Rumors we just got handed a shit ton of 6 month individual mobs for MX supervisors. Given that these are set to take place as we are spinning up to deploy, what could possibly go wrong?

Delta life insurance is something like 875k and we only pay tax on an "imputed" income based on "gracious" nature of our life insurance. I use TRS, with delta dental and vision.

I agree with your first paragraph, I'm talking units that have a min of 7-8 days/month for every month, that's just crazy...if you want to keep pilots anyway. You end up like the squadron that I deployed with (before airlines starting hiring), that required 9 guest help just to fulfill a combat deployment. They also needed more guest help to man their ACA mission during the deployment. Also, I've either sat alert for or been TDY with three other squadrons that needed guest help for ACA just to go TDY or deploy. We have nearly as many DSGs as some of these squadrons have total, and one of them will basically hire anyone who has stepped foot near a fighter in the last 15 years. Mind you all these squadrons live within driving distance of multiple airline gigs, so they should not have a hard time filling the LOXs. I agree wholeheartedly about not losing out on the debrief. That said, there are plenty of phases (BFM/BSA/CAS/etc...) where a FtF, FpF or even a red to blue double turn are manageable while still getting a good debrief/maintaining skills. We also don't require (though we highly encourage) our part-timers to sit alert, so that's not another day required of them. If they choose to do so, we'll usually get them a practice scramble. This also requires good leadership who is willing to take the "risk" of waiving/scoffing as much queep as possible while also working to remove extraneous BS for the DSGs. When I say queep, I mean anything not directly related to flying/killing bad guys. Example...the extent of my DTS work is emailing receipts, then next time I'm at work, I log in, do quick scan and sign the voucher. This has been a HUGE savings wrt time wasted by our DSGs. We also do a wing-wide day of training that knocks out all the yearly required bullshit like, green dot, cbrne, yearly CBTs, etc... Side bar... Do you require guys to sit alert because you need to spread the requirement, or is it simply to keep them engaged in the mission? Also, how do you pay guys to work 6+ days/month? Do they have to only log one pay card/day? That's pretty much a non-starter for our DSGs. If only we could crack the nut of letting DSGs roll off alert into CT AND log pay cards that day. @Burger, suffice it to say, there are numerous views and/or requirements based on the squadron. Any squadron I was looking into, I would want to see the scheduling policy memo and the LOXs...this will tell you A LOT. If you're going to have to commute to either job, then I would take a good look at what you think is realistically manageable. We once told a great dude no because his plan to work a contracting gig over 3 states away from the guard (not an airline guy) was not sustainable long term. He got picked up elsewhere and later realized we were right...he now lives local to his guard unit and is happily full time.

Hate to hear this brother. Been there, thankfully mine was super easy as we didn't have anything together (no kids), and she actually had a pretty level head and didn't want anything. Annulments are very cheap. All I can say is enjoy the single life...it's been/continues to be a great run for this guy. It seems like chicks can actually smell the divorce on you and they come out of the woodwork. Also from here on out, a pre-nup will be mandatory for this guy. I'm buying all my assets and toys now, and they come with the package. If she don't like it (toys or pre-nup), there are plenty more fish in the sea. I may be slightly jaded, but I'm living life the way I want and on my terms from here on out. Life's to short. Great advice above. Good luck brosef!

In this case, the "beer-holder" is the leadership that thinks 8 days/month is reasonable...my guess is that beer is being held after chugging a handle of jack, to make such a policy. I don't care what airframe you're flying (we're Vipers w/ alert), that is WAY too much to expect from a DSG and is indicative of leadership who has never been part timer. 6 days/month is the absolute upper limit of reasonableness. Personally, I think anyone how serves as SQ/CC or above should have spent a few years as a part timer...or better yet, be a current part timer.

Varies wildly depending on the squadron and whether you commute or not. Are you going to have to commute? I have seen squadrons that require beyond ridiculous participation such as 7 days plus a drill day....8 days is unsustainable and is NOT what we were meant to do. I'm not even sure how they get guys to sign on for that. When your rushing a squadron, ask what your required to work a month...anything over 5 days, RUN! If you show up and the there are more jets on the ramp than pilots on the letter of X's....there's a reason. I know of at least 2 squadrons currently like that and my guess is leadership at both are not friendly to the part-timer/airline guys. My squadron requires 8 periods of availability (4 days) and most months that works...some months I find myself at the squadron 5 days. You just have to realize that you won't always meet RAP and that's OK. If leadership isn't cool with that, move on. I happen to be fortunate enough to live 10 minutes from the Guard and 1 hour from the airline...this is about as good as it gets. Now that I'm on a WB, it's about as easy as it gets. I generally work 12 days at the airline and 4-5 days at the Guard....16-17 days of work/month is very sustainable. When I was was on the NB, I tried burning the candle at both ends, working a full month 15-17 days, plus 4-5 days at the Guard and it was unsustainable. I was much happier when I just dropped one of my 4-day trips and did my Guard those days (16-17 days/month). Sure it's a pay hit, but it's worth it for your sanity. Working the Guard on top of the airlines shouldn't preclude you from having a good QOL and days off to enjoy your family and/or doing the things you do.

I like talking to interesting people.

"Volunteering." In our case, we get told the squadron is being mob'd, so in theory the entire squadron could be told your going (or backfilling our alert det while the squadron is gone). We then "get" to pick our flavor (vol vs invol) of being mob'd...which is akin to asking if we'd like a reach around while we're being bent over.

Flew with a guy once who has a twin brother at DAL (actually flown with both now). One was hired at DAL and his brother was hired 3 months later at NWA. When the seniority list integration happened, they ended up 1,900 numbers apart. One has been a WB Captain for the last 15 years and the other is stuck as a NB Captain.

I know you know this, but there is absolutely a benefit of attempting to salvage some morale for those allowed to swap. I know we're talking AFRC vs ANG (as well as tankers vs fighters), but we were given more swaps than we needed on our recent deployment. We also pressed to test on taking the absolute min number of pilots required...surprisingly they approved our plan. Oh man, the bigger issue we've run into was deciding who has to go and who gets to stay home, especially since we have a home station alert tasking. For a minute I felt like I was watching a group of high school girls fight because Karen kissed Johnny (who is dating Susie) under the bleachers after the football game. How I would handle it is to allow anyone who wants full time to do that. Everyone else gets a swap...if guys turn into teenage girls bickering over first/last half, do damn lottery. Anyone who doesn't go this time is on the next one, no questions asked. There really is no other way to do it without dealing with petty bullshit. This is predicated on the idea that local leadership is willing push it up the chain that they must have as many swaps as needed. It needs to be conveyed that the swaps are a small price to pay to keep valuable experience and avoid being unable to fulfill future taskings due to lack of pilots. We all love to bitch, but until more guys start voting with their feet, nothing will change. To many guys love the uncle sugar MLOA trump card to massage their schedules and get holidays/weekends off. That alone will keep many in, at least until they hold holidays/weekends off and/or they have enough numbers below them on the list.

In all fairness I do see the good you're talking about, but losing dwell protections is a kick in the nuts. It's kinda like what we have in the Guard where we have to pick between 12301d (vol) vs 12304b (invol) for our deployments. Invol gets you USERRA exemption and dwell protection but no early retirement credit. Vol gets you USERRA protection (not exemption) and no dwell protection but doest get you early retirement credit. You say, contingency orders get you USERRA exemption, and you'd be correct. BUT, when they keep sending us to NON-contingency TSPs (my last two "deployments), you do not get that exemption unless you choose to go voluntary. Supposedly this is supposed to be fixed, but the checks been in the mail for over 3 years now.

Paragraph 1....YES! They're finally getting it! Paragraph 2....blacked out for second. 3a....WTF!?!?! LONGER deployments?!?! 3d....So I get to pick between the blue pill or red pill, but the blue pill means losing dwell protections...

Put your date of separation as your earliest available start date, then take the earliest available class they offer. Like speed, seniority is life! Get hired, through training/OE/consolidation and maybe off probation, then worry about the FTU. It sounds like you have a good SQ/CC willing to work with you on dates...capitalize on that opportunity. My OG looked at me funny when I walked into his office and told him I'm giving up my IPUG class date to start training at the airline...he's now at the airlines and I think grasps my reasoning.