FLY6584

Could not have said it better myself. Why can't the folks that are supposed to be subject matter experts at this come up with a simple effective plan like this that is cost effective for the Air Force and fair to it's members? It's so hard to believe that an organization can be as incompetent and useless as much as AFPC is. When this debacle is over these individuals need to meet the equivalent of an FEB and those that have conjured up the financial loss equivalent of a Class A mishap need to be fired. If we can be fired for poor judgement that leads to the loss of millions of dollars then these people need to be held to the same standard!

Good luck. The people in charge of Humanitarian Assignments are right behind the people in charge of Force Management for the biggest clown show in the Air Force award. Those people are worthless and borderline corrupt. Best of luck with your request!

Yep and I just got off the phone with the TFSC and they said they still don't know about UPT ADSC's and to refer to 13-65 for guidance that states we are not eligible to apply yet this matrix says we are. When asked to contact the separations people for further guidance I am told they are busy processing applications and not taking questions. Standard AFPC clown show. Can't really say I expected anything, but total incompetence out of them though. I guess those of us that were initially denied need to sit back and wait to see if anyone is approved first. If anyone at AFPC is reading this please GFY.

Just got off the phone with the TFSC and they said they had no information regarding a 6 year UPT ADSC waiver. The guy I spoke with called the separations folks and they said they are still waiting to hear back from Air Staff on whether they will waive UPT ADSC's so at least it sounds like it is slightly within their cross check.

What did you hear? I want to resubmit mine as well, but I am afraid to do that if they are going to re-activate my previous application that had a time stamp of 0006CST on 6 Feb. I know it's not first come first serve, but I wan't every chance I can get.

Agreed. I will apply to the Majors/Legacy's also if I get approved for the VSP, but I may be a little short on the Total Time right now so I may have to spend a year or two at the Regional's to build that time. What's sad is that I am so unhappy with the current state of the Air Force that I am willing to take a 75% paycut and go fly for the Regional's just to get off AD. The one thing I have going for me is that I was a prior FAIP so the majority of my time is TPIC so I just need to build that Total Time to be competitive for a Legacy.

No offense taken. It's refreshing to see senior guys like yourself on here seeking out honest feedback and trying to get a true climate assessment of how things are in our Air Force. I got a really good vibe from the SECAF and I haven't seen the Chief of Staff speak, but everything I have read about him makes him seem like an awesome guy and a great leader. I am glad they want to know what those of us at the bottom think... now if we can just get that information to them then I think they can actually make some progress. I was shocked to hear that it took weeks for some of this information to reach Welsh and it took someone asking a question at a Town Hall meeting in Altus held by him to get him that message.

Come on... cut me some slack. For the record when I joined I never planned on wanting to get out early. I totally 100% bought into the blue. I'm not sure I'd call myself a kool-aid drinker, but I was damn near close to it. Never in my wildest dreams did I imagine I'd want out of the organization I fought so hard to get into and admired for so many years. For me, the biggest disappointment.... is this organization not being what I thought it was when I joined. In the end we'll all be fine and most of us will go on to have successful careers in civilian aviation, but that's not what I grew up dreaming about. I never wanted to tell my grandson about my third leg into LAX flying my Delta jet... I always wanted to tell him about this awesome organization I got the chance to serve and help make this world a better place. I have had the chance to do some really great things over the past 7 years and wouldn't trade them for the world, but unfortunately for me the bad FAR outweighs the good.

Yeah.... someone in my office kept leaving the paper cutter open and I kept tripping and cutting myself on it.

Thank you for the explanation. That was probably the best, most honest, no bull shit answer we have received to date and I appreciate that. Why is it so hard to get that from AFPC or senior leaders? Sure my emotions probably got the best of me and resigning a commission and turning in wings that I have poured countless amounts of blood, sweat, and tears into seems a bit extreme, but I can assure it's not just because I was not "called on for a question". It's just another thing on a long list of things that I never imagined would happen that day I took my oath of office.

The sad part is I don't even think it was the SECAF's doing. I feel it's the mid-level managers that want to do nothing, but tell the high-ups what they THINK they want to hear. They want to squash anything that is controversial and put up smoke and mirrors to make people like the SECAF feel like everything is great at the bottom level. I thought the point of a "Town Hall" meeting was to answer those real questions and gauge the climate and feelings of the people they say they care so much about? Furthermore there is a luncheon tomorrow with the SECAF for a select few individuals from Airman to Captains to LtCol's. I just so happen to know a pilot attending the luncheon and asked if he could ask a question that I tried to ask in the "Town Hall" and he said that he could not because all questions had to be approved a week ago by leadership. Are you f'ing kidding me?! I would find it shocking if the SECAF actually knew this was going on and was ok with it. She seemed like a very down to earth and well educated lady that could do a lot of great things for our Air Force, but we are going to hide the true problems from her?!

I just sat through the biggest clown show I have yet to see in the Air Force. The SECAF just visited our deployed location today to speak with us and answer questions that were on the minds of our Airmen. Just prior to the speech the senior leaders said they had 10 individuals in the crowd with pre-planned questions to insure there wouldn't be any "silence" when asked for volunteers, but that we were all encouraged to ask anything we wanted. I had come to the speech with a question prepared that explained that according to AFPC, 2563 pilots from the 2005-2008 year groups were eligible for the RIF/VSP with a reported overage of 415 pilots, but that many of us had applied and had been denied due to our ADSC's and that they were currently seeking SECAF approval to waive those ADSC's. I just wanted to ask if she planned on waiving those ADSC's and if those of us that have been denied should reapply as the 1 May deadline is fast approaching. Quite possibly the most appropriate question for the SECAF who just got done speaking about force shaping, current overages, and people being her number one priority in her speech. Well the people with the microphones only called on 4 people that had pre-planned questions and then we were told there was not enough time for anymore questions. I had raised my hand every single time as high as I possibly could and made direct eye contact with the people with microphones, but was ignored every single time. They asked questions about sexual assault, the future of our deployed location, and a couple other things that absolutely no one in the room cared about. I have never been more disappointed with this organization. If I could resign my commission and turn my wings in today I would.

Standard Air Force bull shit. Zero foresight before implementing life affecting policies. So over this organization.

What about those of us that are deployed? Is my BAH going to change because I can't get them a copy of my son's birth certificate? What a joke.

Hey fellas, tomorrow I will be attending a town hall meeting held by the SECAF at my deployed location and I can assure you I will be the first to ask whether she is planning on granting approval to waive UPT ADSC's and why were we allowed to apply in the first place if they weren't even sure they would let anyone out.

How would one go about getting General Cox's e-mail address? I am at my wits end with AFPC. I have still yet to hear any sort of answer from them concerning why some people with the exact same AFSC and remaining ADSC remaining have been denied for VSP and some are still at the BPO? I have called the TFSC numerous times and opened tickets with no answer. If they are supposed to start processing these applications this week and people still have theirs in the system, but guys like me have been denied what happens if they start approving them and we miss out?

I don't think it has anything to do with how long your ADSC is and has everything to do with when you submitted your application. I have people in my unit that put in for the VSP days after me who have longer ADSC's remaining yet theirs has not been denied, but mine has. I got mine in 6min after the window opened and know others that have been denied that got theirs in right after the window opened also. My gut feeling is AFPC made a knee jerk reaction and started disapproving anyone with a remaining UPT ADSC starting with the first that applied and in that order and then they realized how long it was going to take and decided to standby on rejecting anymore until they got official word as to whether they even had to reject them or not. If this is the case and they do get approval to waive UPT ADSC's and they all of a sudden start approving people with applications still remaining in the system and over the guys that originally had gotten their apps in first then we are looking at a huge IG complaint. I'd be curious to hear when everyone got their application in that has already been denied. Like I said I got mine in at 0006CST on the 6th of February. Let's hear everyone's else's submission date/time and if you have been denied or not...

The only ones I see that haven't been denied yet are the ones still sitting at the Squadron or Wing Commander signature stage. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think everyone that has been Referred to BPO has been denied already?

Just received an e-mail from AFPC confirming that my VSP application had been denied due to remaining ADSC. Filing my complaint with the IG tomorrow and possibly writing my Congressman a letter. AFPC = the biggest bunch of ass clowns in the Air Force.

So where does it say that they are "blanket returning" applications made by 11X's with ADSC's still left? I read that to say you can leave your application in and we will review it on 3 Mar 14, but if you aren't sure you really want to VSP because you are not sure you will be on the RIF or not then feel free to withdraw your VSP application. What am I missing?

On my way to the IG to file my formal complaint pending the rejection e-mail. I may also drop a letter to my Congressman as well. AFPC is an f'ing clown show.

I don't want to get anyone's hopes up, but I just got off the phone with someone actually in AFPC and not with the TFSC and was told they will be waiving UPT ADSC's for the VSP.

Mine was switched to my current core ID after 31 Jan. Before the switch my application said 11K for my core ID and after it was changed in MILPDs I refreshed my application before ever submitting it and the proper core ID came up and that is what I submitted it with.

I originally tried to PM this to you, but it said you could not accept any new messages. I have deleted the name of the person you need to contact to protect his privacy, but if you can clear out your PM's and PM me then I can send you his name. You need to email "NAME" at AFPC. He is the guy in charge of ISR Assignments and the only one that can update your core ID. Your squadron in conjunction with MPF is able to update your DAFSC and your PAFSC so make sure those both reflect 11R, but also make sure you have "NAME" update your Core ID as well because that can disqualify you if not correct. I was in the same boat... PAFSC and DAFSC said 11R, but Core ID said 11K from my FAIP days. One e-mail to "Name" fixed it within hours.

I called again for the hell of it and got the same answer that I received in my email. She made it clear that if you fall under the RIF Eligibility Matrix you are to follow the guidance found in 13-130 and as of right now you are eligible to apply for VSP. She said everyone else that does not fall under the RIF Eligibility Matrix is to use 14-08 which does drive you to 13-65 that states UPT ADSC commitments won't be waived. As of this time she said she could not confirm or deny whether those of us that apply for VSP under 13-130 will have our UPT ADSC's waived, but as mentioned before she said those interested should still apply while they wait for word from the "Air Staff" as to whether they will be waived or not. It's still a shitty answer and sad that they can't decide who they will let out before they tell us to apply, but at least there's still a chance.