FLY6584

I would have to agree, but AFPC did put out a detailed reg with a detailed timeline for the RIF. Year groups are broken down into specific groups with different identifiers and Commanders have already started putting together RRF packages for a ton of guys that have UPT ADSC's left. I do have faith that if we are eligible for the RIF we will be eligible for the VSP based on comments made by General Welsh so if everything is right with the RIF then we have a shot at the VSP. I'm just worried that they are going to come back and say no pilots are eligible for the RIF or for the VSP. If they do there will be a lot of pissed off pilots, but more importantly a lot of pissed off Commanders that had their staff wasting time on useless RRF packages because AFPC can't seem to just get it right the first time, EVER.

I'm not sure if this is good news or not, but this is the response I got from AFPC via email... "If you are RIF eligible your guidance for applying for VSP is under PSDM 13-130 not 14-08. That PSDM does not refer to 13-65 so you could apply for VSP."

Once all of this is finalized we all need to file IG Complaints against AFPC.

Does anyone know how to check if your Commander has input their comments/recommendation yet? Are we notified when they do? The website has been so overloaded I haven't been back on since I submitted my application.

Yeah the better likelihood of getting approved is nice, but for me it's almost a mental thing. I hate to walk away from such a big part of my life with nothing to show for it. Sure we had TSP and our own savings, but had we been at a civilian company for 7-8 years plus we would have a pretty solid 401k as we transitioned to our next company.

Why is that? I would rather VSP and then go Guard/Reserve. If you Palace Chase you miss out on the Separation Pay, but retain the option to go full time in the Guard/Reserve. Unless you aren't interested in flying for the airlines a TG or TR position should be just fine.

That's refreshing. That's the type of commander that will actually follow Air Force guidance to not hold it against anyone that applies for VSP and is subsequently denied. Wish there were more like him.

And that is exactly what I told the lady at the Total Force Service Center and she clarified that they are separate programs when it comes to GI Bill transferability and that if you VSP you will retain those benefits, but that the ADSC's waivers that apply to the LADSC are the same for the VSP. She could be wrong. It's not the first time a contractor has absolutely no idea what they are talking about, but then again we are hearing reports of SQ/CC's hearing the same thing from Commander Hotlines.

If you ever told me back when I originally signed up that years down the road I'd be sitting here glued to my computer in the middle of the night submitting an application to get out of my job as a pilot in the Air Force I would have told you that you were full of $hit. Why do I feel so let down and unfullfilled that the Air Force wasn't what I thought it was going to be? It's such a shame.

Just submitted my application even though it's a pipe dream.

In theory yes. And as I mentioned before all of these RRF's that we are required to write are a total waste of time and unnessecary.

Make sure you ask that SQ/CC why his staff is required to write a ton of RRF's for guys that are no longer eligible for the VSP so theoretically should not be eligible for the RIF either.

So basically everyone that is eligible for the RIF should apply for VSP so that when you are RIF'd we can file another class action lawsuit against the Air Force for the same thing it did back in 2011.

You are correct, but 14-08 says the following: "See PSDM 13-65, FY14 Officer Voluntary Force Management Programs for the list of current waiverable ADSC's."

It actually doesn't apply to VSP. The lady at the Total Force Service Center said that the comment under the LADSC Waiver program about losing your 9/11 GI Bill transferability benefits only applies to LADSC waivers and not to VSP applications. BUT then she went on to say that the UPT comment under the LADSC does apply to the VSP program because 14-08 says specifically to reference that table in 13-65. How has it been almost 2 months since all of these started and they can't seem to release any guidance that makes any ing sense.

The AFPC website clearly spells out the following... "To be clear, if you are eligible for an involuntary program, then you are eligible for a voluntary program. However, you may be eligible for a voluntary program, but not eligible for an involuntary program." And then they advertise that we are eligible for the VSP because we are eligible for the RIF, but then refuse to waive ADSC's. I'm sorry. I'll stop typing now. I just can't believe an organization like this can be so corrupt, mismanaged, and immoral. I'm filing my IG complaint tomorrow.

You are absolutely reading that right. 14-08 is the guidance to use for the VSP and how to go about applying for the VSP, but the new 14-08 refers to a table in the new 13-65 to reference to see if you can waive an ADSC you have. In that table it says no UPT ADSC's will be waived and the "nice" lady at the Total Force Service Center confirmed that. She was told by the separations people today that UPT ADSC's will not be waived. Seriously is this the ing twilight zone?! How could they be repeating 2011 when the Chief of Staff specifically said we cannot do that again. They even went as far as to actually release numbers in year groups and say you were eligible if you fell in that year group. I can't say I am that surprised.

I cannot believe it. I just had a Total Force Service Center person tell me that they never planned on waiving any UPT ADSC's and that it was my fault I didn't read enough of the regs to know that they wouldn't be and that the Guard and Reserve jobs I have applied for and the meetings with my Commander about putting in for the VSP were for nothing. She said I am most certainly eligible for the RIF based on my year group, but because I have a UPT ADSC I am not eligible to apply for the VSP and apparently all of these senior leaders talking about how we need to offer VSP to year groups before we RIF them is total bull shit. Why release a matrix that shows 2007 11R's are over by 26 out of 77 eligible and say on that matrix that you are eligible to apply for the VSP, but then in the final hours after you have toasted your AD career and jerked Guard and Reserve Units around say just kidding... we're not waiving any UPT ADSC's, but that matrix is still valid. Explain to me how the you can be a 2007 year group pilot that has completed their ADSC as of this time?! What a story!

There is an updated 14-08 dated 4 Feb 14 and an updated 13-65 dated 5 Feb 14. They both contradict each other. One says you will not lose GI Bill Benefits and the other says you will. I just got off the phone with the Total Force Service Center and they said AFPC will not be waiving any UPT ADSC's.

Two new PSDM's out. Everything has changed in the final hours. No longer can you retain your 9/11 GI Bill Benefits if you transfered them to a family member and have not completed the 4 year commitment nor are any UPT ADSC's being waived. WTF!!!!!!!!! Why post numbers for 11's in year groups that have obviously not completed their UPT ADSC and say they are eligible to apply for VSP, but then say they won't waive their UPT ADSC. Standard AFPC crap!

That's what I did. I also requested to have my remaining ADSC waived without really any justification because the TFSC said we need to at least request to have the ADSC waived in the remarks, but don't need to put down any justification. I can't believe they can't just release specific instructions on how they want this done... actually I can believe it... it's AFPC.

I just got off the phone with AFPC Total Force Service Center also and I got a completely different answer. I was told to use the first half of 13-130 and select "SECAF Approved Early Separation Program" instead of "Miscellaneous" as 14-08 suggests, BUT then I was told to use the verbiage from 14-08 that says to put "FY14 VSP Program" in the remarks section. What a total cluster .

So you received a pretty substantial tax return then If you overpayed by 10.2% on your separation pay?

I'm already a FL resident so I will save on the state tax. So you're basically saying it doesn't matter how much you made in 2014 because you are going to be taxed at 25% on it no matter what?

I am currently deployed right now and can possibly ask to have my deployment to this tax free location extended. I wonder if I do that and keep my taxable income relatively low if that will help keep me out of the super high tax brackets? Also could you save money on taxes being RIF'd versus VSP'd considering your VSP payment would be paid out the same year you were making senior Capt pay compared to the RIF being paid out in 2015 where you wouldn't be making that Senior Capt pay?