sputnik

Let us not forget Troy Hartman. Kind of famous for a while there. He washed out of the Academy and never made it to UPT so doesn't really qualify for this topic but good story anyway. He was in trouble for many things, but what ultimately did him in was hitting a cow, no shit, with an Aero club Cessna. For a variety of non interesting reasons I didn't like the guy, but I always had utter respect for the way he went out. His was my favorite kicked out of Academy story, long before he turned into super stunt man. Found his website. Apparently he's the guy who did the flaming parachute photo that one out of every two people on APC use as an avatar. https://www.troyhartman.com/

I'll be good to Toro and revive this one. At least I'm not alone in my utter confusion with other time. Here's a (mis?)understanding I have. If you're the A code aren't you still the PIC regardless of whether you're in the seat or not? On the forms you may split as prim/sec/other but isn't it all PIC? I mean, in AF we don't log PIC time. Prim/Sec on 781 is not directly equivalent to PIC/SIC...is it? Same vein, if you're not the A code, despite the 781 can you ever legitimately claim PIC time? Despite how you handle the controls you didn't sign out the aircraft and you're not ultimately responsible. I don't think a regional copilot logs a .1 of PIC time until they have the left seat. Help?

I think getting a start on your masters while on casual is one of the smartest things you could do so I strongly encourage it. One thing you should consider, you only get tuition assistance for one master's degree. Or so I've always been told when I've attempted to pursue another. So if you get the 'easier' one now with the intent of a 'better' one later, just realize you might be paying for 100% of the 2nd. Ed office always told me that for me to get tuition assistance on another masters the AF would have to require me to get one. Which wouldn't really be tuition assistance in that case, it would be 100% coverage and an assignment to boot. They did tell me I could get it if I were to pursue the next higher degree, a PhD. I guess I could start a program and drop out with a masters but it seems a little silly and I suspect making the prereq's would be too much a pain in the ass. For those looking for engineering degrees, I know Georgia Tech used to have distance degrees. I'd recommend finding a school/program that interests you then asking what options they have that'll work for you. I know many people make fun of ERAU (for example, me) but it's an accredited school and the degrees are real. Is a degree from there going to stand up against Harvard, nowhere except your promotion boards. However it's still an advanced degree you can put on your resume and it sure the hell isn't going to hurt you. Skipping aside M2's example above, you'll search far and wide before you find a job that's willing to pay 75-100% of school for you and even make allowances to your work schedule. The promotion system has forced most officers to take advantage of it, but it kills me how many E's just ignore it. I harp on it whenever I can, sadly to little effect most of the time. A bachelors degree is worth far more to them than an masters to any O. Whatever you do with your own education I certainly hope you encourage your E's to take advantage of the incredible education deals available. Off soapbox. Anyone have experience with safety masters? Either with ridiculous or anything else?

What you say makes sense now that I think about it. TSP comes off pre tax income in general. I'll nose around try to figure out where I got that idea. For some reason I thought I read it.

Holy shit, you called it. I had to read that a couple times before I even got what you were saying. I must have wanted VSP more than I even knew

Never done a Class A but...a lot. And if they need something, that base will open right back up from Xmass. Granted no fatals so president will be an O6 instead of one star, but they generally don't play. Unlike Bs and Cs, the 30 day time limit is generally adhered to. This could easily turn into Pperation Cancel Christmas for Columbus permanant party.

Having logged 1500 hours in the Tweet, and been a life support guy, the one thing I can say with any level of certainty is--trying to predict survivability based on a news report is kind of retarded. In general at pattern altitudes and speeds, less than say 45 deg of bank, very survivable. Tweet had a fantastic seat with an incredible set of statistics behind it. It did/does not have a great window, but if you eject within parameters you will almost certainly survive. Possibly with a back injury, but that beats death by a mile. Back in the day when the T6 was picked many of my Tweet compadres and I had a common set of apprehensions: single engine, prop, tandem seating, etc. Many of those guys went on to fly the T6 and have never looked back. It's a sweet ride. It has problems, sure. I mx canceled quite a few Tweet sorties back in the day and probably should have canceled a few more. I have my doubts the 6 will still be flying in 50 years, but who the hell really knows. I think if you went back to late 50's you'd have trouble finding anyone who'd say the Tweet would still be around into the 2000's. Hell, there aren't a lot of people who would have predicted the 38 would still be around.

I'm a huge fan of VSP...but can't really articulate why. Limited funds but incredibly low fees and very nice returns last couple years. At any rate, one thing to remember is that TSP also tracks your tax free contributions. Those months that you hit a combat zone tax exclusions are totaled separately, as is everything that compounds off it. Tax free forever. Otherwise, I think everyone else on here is smarter than me so I'll leave it at that. Good luck. Okay one thing, your job didn't contribute to social security? Isn't that illegal?

Kirtland base ops has an amazing patch wall, the history is incredible. They have every single space mission, for example. For a history buff it's a can't miss visit. One day I was leaning against the weather desk awaiting my dash one and somehow my eye just caught this really primitive, ghetto patch, from a unit that flew some small transport aircraft in vietnam (been a while, can't remember the plane). I will never forget how it captured my eye though "the tiny winy air transport service--the TWATS." Maybe some ballsy JCA unit will retake the name.

Who'd a thunk something like dogtags could get people so worked up? If you wear the metal chain, sometimes it pinches the back of your neck. Mildly annoying. I suspect that is why some people route the chain under the flight suit collar, as opposed to a strange fashion statement. If you spend much time around the Army, where they are forced to wear them 24/7, you'll see a whole cottage industry of ways to make the chain less annoying. Routing through hollowed out 550 cord, plastic tubing, etc. I myself wear my dogtags on a piece of cord. I wear them mainly because it's a convenient place to store my wedding ring when I'm flying, at gym, etc. I've only seen rotary guys do that with scarves.

One of the more amazing things: when he dropped that bomb he was a group commander, he was an O6--he was 30 years old.

Please post it. I'm a heavy guy in a fighter wing and my boss is an eagle guy and oh man, could I have fun with that.

If you don't know your blood type....find out. Useful thing to know. While it might be gay for the Army to require dog tags, you're missing the point. If you're in the military, all you need to get a ride on an Army helo is dog tags and a uniform. Find an AF non-flyer on your base and just see what amazing sorts of ass pain you'll need to go through to get him/her a flight. And most likely, you won't be able to. Hell, even a pilot attempting to fly on a different MDS on a different base requires OG to OG correspondance. The Army is oddly very relaxed about it, pleasant difference from the AF (note, while I've batted 1000 on my attempts to get E's and Cadets rides I can't swear this is 100% through the entire Army).

I think proper gear is on one of the pre-deployment checklists, if it ain't signed that's a fair amount of egg on your face to your unit when they can't give you orders. If nothing else, just deploy with green bags. The first time you show up to fly it will embarrass the living fvck out of everyone and they'll square you away. Been a long time since I robbed a downrange supply shop, but typically they had five million of everything, not that you want to wait but should be able to get it pretty quickly after you get down there. Not to mention the downrange CC's asking your CC wtfo when you tell them your unit was unable to provide you with deserts. By the way, I would never sell anything like that on ebay. But if you had some ripped, stained desert flight suits, you'd be amazed what people will pay for them.

I think boomer or loadmaster would be awesome jobs, but the advice above about proximity to flight line being related to difficulty of attending school was dead on. As a 17 guy I can attest it's very damn hard to attend class on the side. The one load I can think of off top of my head who did the commissioning thing went to Altus as it was the only way to get the stability he needed. Other side of the spectrum, I was working in a command post and one of my sharper young guys managed to CLEP his way and take classes through two years of college at the local CC. WA state transfers 100% of CC credits with no issues, he separated under one of the programs you mentioned and went off to UW to finish up his degree under funded scholarship. I've no doubt he couldn't have done it had he been a load though, no way to make class. With some dedication (and right career field choices) you could easily do a 4 year enlistement and finish with 2+ years of college. From there you would be a shoe-in for ROTC, etc, and set youself up to have a four year degree, four years enlisted time, and a commission all in six years. Hard to beat, but it takes dedication and a long view. My situation was similar ot a lot of people who already wrote, graduated high school with neither the financial means nor (more importantly) the desire to go to college immediately. I enlisted in the Army and eventually ended up at USAFA, strange things happen. Having been in the Army I wouldn't necessarily recommend it especially if you want to join the Air Force. But if you look at the amount of money you can make in a four, three or even two year enlistment....it is pretty mind boggling. If you look at it as a straight cold blooded financial transaction, the Army will give you far more cash, and far better college benefits than the AF will. Possibility of you being physically able to use those benefits at the completion of your tour is marginally lower than if you joined the AF, true. QOL definately lower, also true. If you are considering an enlistment as a means to an AF commision and pilot slot, don't limit yourself to just the AF. I've flown with many AF pilots who served enlistments in other services. Generally speaking, if you go to your leadership and tell them you want to futher your education and your career (and prove you're not a sh!tbag), they will bend over backwards to help you. You won't realize this as a young enlisted guy but it's an enormous feather in a commander's cap to have a troop commissioned, got to Academy, etc. Huge. From what you wrote I think you know the right thing to do, certainly more than a bunch of guys on an internet board who've never met you. Rest assured, you can go from enlisted to AF pilot.

I mostly agree with Swinging but I do know of a few married ALO's. Schofield is close to Hickam, PACAF, PACOM not to mention Tripler so a lot of opportunities there. Similar situations in Europe though more likely to be stationed an hour apart or so. It would be a challenge and don't forget ALO tours are two years so you're setting yourself for being off cycle on assignments unless you extend. And as I can personally attest, an extra year in an ASOS almost certainly will get you another deployment (today's ops tempo). It's good to plan ahead but at this point...focus on flying and getting married.

Used to be 43 slots worldwide but I know PACAF lost a few and am no longer sure of total number, but it's still close to 40. Keep in mind that along with ALO it's two year assignment so there's a lot of flow thru. There are 3 slots at Bragg as you have a Corps and a Division colocated. When you're not stationed near an AF base it is a pain in the ass for schedulars, no doubt about that. All stateside AMLO slots are flying per AMC policy. They tried backing off that a bit but met too much resistance within community. If you've already completed all your gate months and you're not colocated with a unit flying your MWS you might be out of luck but otherwise you'll be okay under current guidance. The only CONUS jump billets are at Bragg. And not all the Bragg AMLOs jump (minor point the 82nd Airborne is no longer entirely Airborne, and the 101st Airborne is 99% not Airborne). The AMLO slot at Ft Rich is a jump billet and is the only one in PACAF. There should be one at Vincenza but I'm not sure if there is or not. Actually there may be one at Benning too but I can't swear to it. No USAFE AMLOs fly. In PACAF only the Schofield slots are flying positions but they're wing funded so if you're not a C17 guy you're probably not going to fly anyway (there's a 135 guy trying to work an attachment to Guard, might work).

Brother, I just flying the fvcking things.

Well played

Is that actually the controls or is that a joke that went over my head (entirely possible)?

My wife has been on standard since we got married. I have read the handouts several times and I say congrats to everyone who has figured it out as I sure haven't, the only thing I can tell you is we have paid far less than I think we were supposed to. Max cap is $1000/year as mentioned somewhere above, but we've never even come close. And I really don't know why. For the peace of mind my wife gets I'm more than willing to pay a grand, but haven't had to. We were happy with our kids' on base ped, but noticed our kids always got sick Friday afternoon and the Tripler ER....wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. Once we switched to an off-base ped, got to say I was really impressed. Not sure if it was just the fact that he was running a business and trying to keep satisfied customers, or maybe he just cared more, but we got so much better care. Could always get a same day appt, could always reach him (or partner) via phone after hours, he'd call to check on kids a few days after a visit to ensure they were doing okay, the list goes on. When your kids are born they are automatically on prime regardless of Mom's plan, delivery costs all go against kid. Our first was two months premature (happily totally okay) and our bill was the $13/day for my wife's hospital stay. The $20k he racked up in a great NICU was completely covered. I get irritated paying bills I feel I "unnecesary" but I'm completely happy paying for standard. Kept my wife happy (worth a lot) but more importantly I've just felt like it's been better care for my family.

Haven't checked the thread in a while and just saw this. 1) Totally up to you whether it's good or not. From what you say I suspect you'd enjoy it, an awful lot of airlifters would hate it (I think I said it earlier but it bears repeating, not a lot of folks become AF pilots because they want to play on the ground with the Army). I went to a lot of places where I was the only AF, I went to places I was the only Officer, I went to places I was the only American. I thought it was fun, some people would hate it. While still closely tied to the flying world it was completely different than anything I'd done as aircrew and that was cool too. 2. AMLO is Air Mobility Liaison Officer. Used to be Tactical (or occasionally Theater) Airlift Liaison Officers and a lot of AFIs still call them TALOs though the term officially doesn't exist anymore. To be qualified you have to be a tanker or airlift guy. I've meet a couple KC10 guys that were first rate even though they'd never really seen a pallet before and had no idea what airdrop was. Used to be a very 130 centric field, but now they pull from all over AMC. At any rate, as a Herc guy yes you'd be more than qualified. And if you wanted to be one, wouldn't be hard to find a slot. There are roughly 40 slots worldwide, if no one wants an open slot and you happen to be the high time guy on your base you might get forced into it, but it's nothing like what fighter/bomber guys face with ALO slots. If you get a CONUS AMLO slot you'll actually keep flying (today's rules), they attach you at a base with your MWS. If you end up at a base colocated with your MWS (i.e. Ft Lewis/McChord for C17s, Ft Bragg/Pope for Hercs) you can end up flying a lot. PACAF/USAFE behind the power curve on flying but still not a bad deal. I went willingly, had a good time, was more than ready to return to the active flying world when I was done. A few of my hip pocket long term plans involve AMLO assignments in one place or another.

You need to talk to your flight doc to get a prognosis. And I realize it's nearly impossible to get a firm answer from a doc, shoot for percentages if nothing else. Armed with that, sit down with your CC and go from there. The one good friend I had that went through this spent about a year fighting his way through the med stuff before heading off to a new AFSC. Once med folks decide it's an "indefinite" DNIF, you can start moving. Good luck

I've known a few guys who cross flowed into fields that interested them due to similar situations, generally into stuff they wanted to. In the meantime I'm sure you've figured out that being the permanently DNIF dude in a flying squadron will open you up to all sorts of "opportunities" you never knew existed. But long term, if you can't fly, and they won't let you out, you'll have to change AFSC. If you have a plan, and it sounds like you do, be proactive so that once it comes up you'll be ahead of the game. Good luck.

For what it's worth (probably not much) I spent a few weeks in Kuwait a year ago working with an Army O6 who had been the Apache Battalion Commander during the fight. I'd just read "Not a good day" and thought I'd ask him about it--the book and the fight and the controversy. Far as the book goes, he had mixed feelings on Naylor that he wouldn't completely expand on, seemed there may have been something personal involved. He said the book was about 80% accurate, and thought that wasn't bad for a history book. I then asked him about his feelings on Air Force support during the fight. Not sure what I expected but it wasn't what I got. He immediately got pissed off, started wagging his finger and raising his voice. Said he was at War College and they were recieving a brief on Anaconda very harsh on AF. Said he made it a few minutes into it, then stood up and said "This is a total BS, I was there, you weren't, the AF saved my life many times, dropped bombs when and where I needed, saved my men's lives repeatedly and to top it off one of their helos came and picked my ass up off a downed bird while under fire. Anyone who says they didn't support us is full of sh1t." Obviously I don't remember what he said verbatim but it was pretty close. Didn't appear he had to buy beer the rest of his War College career, the AF guys took care of him I think. He for one was pretty emotional on the topic, answered my question anyway. I also worked with/for BG Wiercinski (a total fvcking stud BTW, don't get to meet a lot of guys who killed people with M4's as O6s). I never got a chance to ask him directly about the fight, but he definately loved the Air Force so I assume he wasn't bitter. It was a lot of fun watching him and the Apache guy sit back and BS on Anaconda, old high ranking guys talking about killing a lot of people at very close range. Very cool to sit there and watch these guys I'd read quite a bit about in a number of books.