MD

My class was 34 to start, graduating 16 or so. way back in the day. Big Blue caught on to that way back when. At that time, if you washed out of IFF, you remained an ACC asset. Meaning EC-130 or E-3. AMC got tired of being the dumping ground for all of ACCs IFF washouts.

The Jumbotron debacle. Remember it well. Goldfein Jr's book is as worthless as Creech's TQM book was. Funny you mention when he was HMN WG/CC, as he had taken that job just as I was coming up for assignment out of that Wing. Was meeting with him for PRF purposes and I distinctly remember him looking at my records and asking why I didn't have any kind of joint time and why all my schools were by correspondence. Forget the fact that I spent most of my career prior to the 49th being deployed. He seemed to think that I hadn't been applying myself well enough. When I explained how being constantly rotated didn't allow for much in the way of doing anything in residence, his specific quote to me was "You know, Robin Olds types would never survive in today's Air Force". While a sad fact, the fact that he seemingly supported that, instantly made my decision for me to 7-day opt. Whereas I thought I'd get some nuggets of wisdom for why I should stay in the AF, I really got a great example of why it was indeed time to leave.

It's too bad that the lessons of the SAT L-382 at SKF 29 years ago weren't kept alive in the safety community enough to be something briefed early on to C-130 crews of "what not to do" in their future. Sadly, this C-130 was lost for nearly the exact same reason.

Most definitely. I'd been living in San Antonio at the time of that accident and remember it being big news, and a little later when I got into aviation, studied the NTSB report. Hadn't put any thought into it until the findings of this accident came out, and immediately reminded me of the details of the Southern Air Transport accident. Eerie the similarities, yet weird that this accident.....albeit being a civil Herk accident......wouldn't have been one that would've made it into some kind of "Road to Wings"-type of compilation of Herk accidents that may have been covered at Herk RTU or something. Sadly, SAT lost another Herk 2 years later during a landing accident at SUU, killing all 5 onboard the training flight.

This apparently wasn't a new practice. I remember when a civil LOGAIR C-130 (L-382) crashed on a night takeoff from SKF in October 1986. Crashed onto the parking ramp and into two of the flightline hangars, killing all 3 crew aboard. Nearly exact scenario 29 years ago as this one here, only a different method of securing the yoke back for loading/unloading. Goes to show, we don't really find new ways to have accidents. Detatiled here in fact: https://libraryonline.erau.edu/online-full-text/ntsb/aircraft-accident-reports/AAR87-04.pdf

USAA has been "just another insurance company" for quite a while now.

Just some article observations.. "Operational in 1983, it was not publically revealed until April 1990" The 117 was shown at the Nellis airshow in 1990, but was technically publically revealed in 1988 in a pentagon press conference. "It was not a fighter, but a light bomber without a scintilla of air-to-air capability" Not operationally, no. But not exactly true either. Each bomb bay did have AIM-9 umbilical connections, marked as such, for a reason. Regarding Spoon Rest/Fan Song/Tall King, about the only thing I'll say on that is since we planned specifically against fixed threats/radars, we had methodology to make detection by these systems nearly impossible. We carried LGBs, but also had GPS weapons too, so we weren't completely dependant on the former. And in terms of defenses onboard, there were items, just nothing standard. "No F-117s were so much as scratched by Iraqi defenses" One was very nearly shot down by medium/heavy caliber AAA that was tracking it visually. Luckily no hits were made. "No accident this; Col. Dani’s battery also shot down an F-16C, making him the only successful air defense commander of the entire conflict" Not entirely specialization on the part of the Serb SAM operators either. We ourselves helped them out alot with not remembering a damn thing from the first days Linebacker II, 27 years earlier. Nothing like helping the IADS narrow down its search area. In terms of maintenance, the 117 was up there in man hours. As mentioned, the Martians had the most difficult job in just maintaining the RAM coating. One of the things you'll notice in looking at day-to-day 117s, is how the jet looks somewhat ratty looking, and with strips/pieces missing underneath the tail number of the vertical stab, as well as white chalk looking stuff around the cockpit. This was not the fault of any kind of maintenance, but merely a limitation of the jet itself. F-117s at home station were not kept in a full CMR status. Their weapons attack systems were fully ready, but the jets themselves had to be prepared for combat if the call came, in terms of the stealth items and specifically the RAM coating. With these first generation stealth jets, the outer coating on the jet....the RAM, or Radar Absorbent Material.....came in "sheets" and had to be placed onto the metal fuselage of the jet by trimming to fit, then gluing into place, with a fairly long curing time. Because of this, bits and pieces of of RAM would come off inflight often, and it was alot of work to maintain it. To do so would have far too many jets down for service, so RAM was only replaced in larger sheets if need be. Smaller areas of missing RAM were either left missng temporarily until maintenance could get to it, or were filled in with the RAM putty, resulting in the worn look that some of the jets had, even though that was only a look. When off to combat or to an exercise like Red Flag (or an airshow), the jets were fully prepped and looked pristine, with their RAM coating perfect and Radar Cross Section for that particular tail number well within specs. Other things that would cause severe loss of RAM were actions like dropping the tailhook, if needed.

Yet again, we're betting on the wrong horse with out politics. Turkey uses us and takes advantage of our need for a base, and we still take their crap? When Israel is siding with Russia, that should tell us something.

Boeing is apparently done with LGB operations, and rumor is Gulfstream may be expanding their finishing facilities from the terminal side of the airfield to there.

NATO survived Cold War, but downed Russian jet provides biggest threat Washington (CNN)The cool, calm, clear thinking that kept the NATO alliance intact as it weathered the Cold War with the Soviet Union has been shattered. Decades of careful diplomacy and nail-biting inaction during the potentially world-annihilating nuclear arms race of the 1950s, 60s and 70s appears to have been sacrificed in a few brief seconds by Turkey. During the Cuban missile crisis of 1962, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979, the deployment of nuclear weapons in western Europe in the 1980s and many other causes of strife, NATO did not take on the Soviet Union or Russia directly and Moscow did not attack any NATO country. That all changed when Turkish air force jets shot down a Russian bomber -- the first time a NATO country has taken such action since 1952. Any chance of a quick end to the war in Syria seems to have gone up in smoke. Russian President Putin has been trying to undermine the unity of NATO for years. Whether it's been Russian planes flying in Baltic airspace, aging bombers buzzing the coast of Britain, the destabilization of Ukraine and the annexation of Crimea, he has needled NATO, testing its resolve and probing for division. The downing of Russia's fighter plane may help Putin reach his goal of destabilizing and dividing NATO. NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said that was still the case Tuesday after an emergency meeting arranged for Turkey to tell its allies what had happened. "As we have repeatedly made clear, we stand in solidarity with Turkey and support the territorial integrity of our NATO ally, Turkey," he said. But already, German and Czech officials are expressing surprise at Turkey's action -- taken after the Russian plane was inside Turkish airspace for 30 seconds or less, according to U.S. calculations. Perhaps that seemed more possible this week, with both France and Russia mourning losses from ISIS terror and when they were collectively trading their national tragedies for compromises to find a solution in Syria. It was a rare moment in international diplomacy and some diplomats were beginning to think Russia's policy on Syria and its support for Bashar-Al-Assad could be changed. Not quickly, or easily, but the chance was there. And Erdogan has squandered it. The downing of the Russian jet smacks of what Erdogan's enemies accuse him of -- of aspirations to resurrect the Ottoman Empire -- and leaves him open to claims he is too soft on radical Islamists. Putin has gone further -- saying that Erdogan, the head of state of a NATO member, is siding with the terrorists. And that's why -- at first analysis -- this looks like a disaster, beyond the loss of life of one pilot and a would-be rescuer. It may also be a gain for Putin. For all those years he has was trying to undermine NATO unity, Erdogan's hasty move has handed it to him on a plate. We may learn what led up to the strike, but the deed is done. Erdogan's NATO partners can now only look at him as a loose cannon, an unstable element in a very combustible situation. Not a steady partner capable of calm nerve that saw the alliance last the Cold War. Erdogan has thrown the whole card table in the air. In Turkey, as internationally, Erdogan has a history of pushing his own agenda, whether it's against the tide or not. And when Erdogan finally decided to act militarily in July, the targets were more often Kurdish groups fighting the Islamic extremists, rather than ISIS itself. Turkey did grant the United States permission to use one of its air bases for anti-ISIS missions after a suspected suicide bomber attacked the Turkish city of Suruc, but the two allies have different agendas. There's almost no freedom of the press there -- just ask the journalists locked up while covering the recent elections, in which Erdogan's party did surprisingly well after a summer poll flop. Conflict with Kurdish people inside and outside Turkey continues. Turkey took no action against ISIS for a year and a half as the group advanced across the border in northern Syria. Even as the United States sees Kurdish fighting groups as a hope to beat ISIS, Turkey continues to attack them. To many in Turkey, the prospect of an independent state for the Kurds is seen as a greater threat than the religious extremism of ISIS. To much domestic acclaim, Erdogan has moved Turkey away from its secular past and resurrected Islamism in Turkish politics

Spot on If there's no hostile intent on the part of the intruders.......ie- they didn't hit that tiny sliver of airspace and turn north deep into Turkey immediately.......then its VERY difficult to be able to articulate a threat that warrants shoot down. To shoot down these jets crossing that small sliver of land border that they were in for ~15 seconds: 1. The Turks would've had to take the shot at them inside Turkish airspace, to where they'd be hit outside Turkish airspace and crash outside Turkish airspace. Hardly the way to show hostile intent on the part of the Russians or to claim they were defending against a threat. And as can be seen, they crashed in Syria. or 2. To have the Russian jet crash inside the Turkish border in that area, the Turks would've had to fire at the Russians when they were outside Turkish airspace.....before EVER even entering Turkish airspace, in order for them to be hit and crash inside Turkish airspace. ie- a preemptive engagement before an incursion ever yet occurred? Either way, Turkey hasn't a leg to stand on in this way. . Notice also that Turkey didn't go deal with Russia on this one on one, they immediately went "running to dad" (NATO) to go plead their case. That bastard Turk president, who supports ISIS and buys oil from them, didn't like it when Russia was hitting ISIS oil convoys of his oil. Yet again, our idiot political leaders are betting on the wrong horse here. We didn't learn a damn thing from Egypt, Libya, or Iraq. And we're making the same errors in Syria.

I, for one, don't want to be stuck paying the bar tab for drinks I didn't order and never wanted, vis-à-vis Turkey and their idiotic actions in trying to drag NATO into defending their moronic acts. And with Turkey as an ISIS ally and Kurd enemy, how can they be considered our friend?

The rebels and ISIS are much the same, with ISIS being supported by Turkey (ironic). As The Turk president supports them through buying oil from them. We're not doing dick to battle ISIS, with the window dressing airstrikes we're undertaking. And the Kurds we're supporting, are only being bombed by the Turks when we're not overhead. Same story since that worthless Op Provide Comfort/Northern Watch in the '90s, where the Turks would refuel from our tankers, in order to bomb the same Kurds we were protecting from the Iraqis.

Wearing blues isn't enough. I think we need more. Mess Dress Mondays, is where it should be. Clothing Sales at the BX needs the business.....

That would be me. It just became really not worth it anymore. And neither were the various carrots being held in front anymore. Part time reserves now for maybe a little while longer, ADSCs long since done, Gate complete. And full time on the outside. No regrets.

If they're not on the ground watching it already...

Agreed fully. Our own ROE is one of the biggest things causing us to lose, we being our own worst enemy yet again, a lesson we apparently didn't learn from Vietnam. This coalition of countries seems ready, willing, and able to get the job done. And who the hell are we fighting for anyway? We won't recognize Assad, and are willing to make the mistakes of Egypt, Libya, Iraq etc all over again. Assad may be a bastard, but whatever the hell replaces him, will be worse. All we're doing right now, is putting our own guys at high risk, for very little reason or return.

Problem there will be at some lower altitudes in some locations, out west especially, you'll have GA planes flying VFR, but too low for flight following. Or, since VFR flight following is the bottom priority of ARTCC, may not get the service if ARTCC is busy. Now, you'll get planes who can't transit said MOA when active, or can't fly underneath, and will be too far to go around since the MOA is laterally huge. FAA will hear all kinds of grief over it. And out west, Special Use Airspace takes up some huge chunks of airspace real estate. I still think that education is the best way....military outreach as well as better civilian training/awareness to the hazards of a MOA when it's active. Which will hopefully teach some better due diligence of civilian aviators to actaully check the status of a MOA, or do some research of the dimensions of the airspace in order to better plan transiting it.

Heck, night VFR without a flightplan in Mexico....also non-existant. It'd be a tough sell to make many MOAs more restrictive than they are, especially in the western USA where many MOAs are huge both laterally and vertically. If MOAs begin to become more restrictive like Restricted Areas, I could see the FAA paring down the size of a good number of existing MOAs as a compromise.

Nor is the GA plane required to say anything to anyone when entering a MOA. Would it be nice for a GA pilot to do some homework regarding a MOA? Such as calling ATC to determine if it's hot or cold, referencing a sectional to see if they could potentially fly underneath the surface of it? Etc? Sure. That'd be great. Unfortunately, with no regulations changes, there's no requirement for GA to exercise due diligence in that way. So if the military wants to turly protect that airspace during its operating hours, it's going to have to become a Restricted Area. Unfortunate, but true.

It's the nature of a MOA. See and avoid is key. Otherwise change it to a Restricted Area.

The ignornace is on both sides. I've seen it firsthand on both end; in fact, just dealt with it with a military A-10 guy a number of months back, as well as a civilian person; both on airspace issues that both were ignorant of.

Both. Their Block 52+ that they own are being delivered to there. Reportedly, this was the first of those brand new jets. Nothing but a burning hole in the ground, Douglas FD allowed it to burn itself out. Not much else there. Lucky it didn't hit a little further west of where it did, or it'd have been around the city.

Still no one approaching the burning wreck, not our guys or the other emergency responders. No chute was seen and no beeper. Last satellite hit reported a severe descent rate, about 45,000+ fpm. Iraq Block 52. .

Agreed. With ANG units now on a rotational schedule of deployments.....again "just to deploy" deployments and not actual contingency deployments, this crap is getting worse and worse. And you're absolutely right.....without these deployments being contingency ones, there is indeed no exemption. The OPR idiocy. At least for us, EPRs for our enlisted is ever 24 months. Why not do the same for OPRs? Not like some Traditional who is a line pilot and does really nothing else (because he can't or doesn't have time to) can really show doing much of anything on the OPR, especially for 1 year. What.....bullets like "perfected a 100% on-time CBT completion rate!"? That's how ridiculous its heading. At least for us in AFRC, masters is a requirement for O-6. True that brother. Unlike how some AD sees us, as lazy or complaining, we as TRs with outside (read: our primary) jobs can't keep screwing over said job for military committments. Employer Support of the Guard/Reserve.....that neat little group.....will soon cease to exist, as they can only take so much pain in the name of waving the flag / supporting the troops. And that's not to mention small business people or self-employed. All that will be left over in addition to what you cite above in your post, will also be the ARTs and such. And related; if I keep having to hear ARTs bitching and complaining about TRs and their participation rate, I'm going to go over the cliff. Hey ARTs, no one held a gun to your head to be full time. You signed up for it. You get the day to day crap duties. Don't complain how "...how are these TRs helping me with my job here? They're not!" , when I don't see you guys helping me with my full time job either.