tac airlifter

If the gov doesn't fully investigate the very real possibility that an extremist Muslim was operating in accordance with an organization of extremist Muslims to commit this attack, it will become a conspiracy that will never die. 20 years from now families will be doing specials on CNN about "why did the gov come out so fast denying this could have been a terrorist attack before we even knew who shot who (remember the initial reports about some casualties being from friendly fire?)?" I cannot understand the reasoning behind the premature bid to label this either terrorism or the act of a lone crazy gunman. Why don't we all just wait to see what the investigation uncovers and proceed from there? The rush to assumptions based on incomplete evidence just screams "agenda!" More devastating than the loss of lives would be the loss of credibility in the governments ability to be straight with people about what happened and why. So I hope you don't take this the wrong way M2, but I really think your assessment is premature and unhelpful to the national dialogue.

I think your assesment is premature. Perhaps we should wait and see exactly what he does and says instead of relying on what little information his lawyers allow out. Still a lot of rumors about funds transfers to Pakistan and all manner of suspicious contacts; not saying any of it is true but this whole affair has been prematurly judged from the initial report. I'm in wait and see mode for a final undestanding of the entire event.

By this time you've either committed yourself to this task and are fighting in the primary or you have called it quits. Either way, I'd love an update. PM me if you don't feel like making it public.

I'm not a fan of the writing style (or lack thereof) either, however, if 1/3 of what he says actually happened--- wow. And that sortie at the end? I stayed up all night reading it, I literally couldn't stop myself and wait for another time to finish.

Possibly the greatest aviation book ever written.

You ought to rethink your post. If an 0-7 installation Commander issues an order that I think is stupid, I still have an obligation to obey. And I wouldn't tolerate open insubordiation or mutany or whatever it is you are calling for with the "do anything about it" line. I can't do anything about it except bring it up to my boss, which happens ALL the time. Ergo, people come here to bitch about this inane policy because what else can we do without going to jail? The fact is, if the boss orders me to dress like a clown I still have to do it. I lead in my capacity, who are you to say I (we) don't?

Thats a good point, and the logical follow up question is: How much of their culture is influenced by their religion? Any verse from just about any religious text can be quoted in isolation and misunderstood or misrepresented. So instead look at the great men (or women) of a particular faith to get an idea of what it teaches. When you contrast Mohammed with Jesus any attempt to equate the two faiths rapidly fails. They were opposites. Bottom line, if this attack originated from his religious beliefs then I think you have to call it terrorism. But if this act originated from the fact that he was an crazy asshole, it's hard to lable that terrorism. Until we interview him and know for sure what his intent was, I think in this climate today it is reasonable to lable this as terrorism since he had to know the act and his faith would be linked.

You pretty much nailed it. The C-27 is a great plane but the AF will neuter it so much; why even have capabilities without the balls to use them? And Cubdriver, not sure where you fly hercs but unless things have done a 180 in the last 8 months he shacked it. Just because we fly into a dirt LZ in OEF or HOA every so often or airdrop some leaflets or CDS twice a month does NOT mean we are doing the extent of what we can do. We don't go to half the places we could in OIF and a larger percentage in OEF. If you can find a listing of places other MAJCOMs or nations or agencies use your head would explode with how much big blue isn't doing to help the fight. Slick hercs train to a very high level, but the leadership lacks the fortitude to employ these assets to the extent of their capabilities. What Huey said is what I saw in the 130 on my deployments to both theaters multiple times over several years; and thats why I left the 130 and will never go back. I'm embarassed at how little the AF HHQ is willing to support the army, and unless the C27 goes AFSOC or is chopped directly to the army (as Pony mentioned here, which I didn't know) it will be just another thing we CAN do but DON'T.

Recieved the following email from a friend in the Army. I myself do not know the JAG who wrote this, but the third party does and I consider him 100% reliable. Text follows: Subject: What happened Since I don't know when I'll sleep (it's 4 am now) I'll write what happened (the abbreviated version.....the long one is already part of the investigation with more to come). I'll not write about any part of the investigation that I've learned about since (as a witness I know more than I should since inevitably my JAG brothers and sisters are deeply involved in the investigation). Don't assume that most of the current media accounts are very accurate. They're not. They'll improve with time. Only those of us who were there really know what went down. But as they collate our statements they'll get it right. > > I did my SRP last week (Soldier Readiness Processing) but you're supposed to come back a week later to have them look at the smallpox vaccination site (it's this big itchy growth on your shoulder). I am probably alive because I pulled a ---------- and entered the wrong building first (the main SRP building). The Medical SRP building is off to the side. Realizing my mistake I left the main building and walked down the sidewalk to the medical SRP building. As I'm walking up to it the gunshots start. Slow and methodical. But continuous. Two ambulatory wounded came out. Then two soldiers dragging a third who was covered in blood. Hearing the shots but not seeing the shooter, along with a couple other soldiers I stood in the street and yelled at everyone who came running that it was clear but to "RUN!". I kept motioning people fast. about 6-10 minutes later (the shooting continuous), two cops ran up. one male, one female. we pointed in the direction of the shots. they headed that way (the medical SRP building was about 50 meters away). then a lot more gunfire. a couple minutes later a balding man in ACU's came around the building carrying a pistol and holding it tactically. He started shooting at us and we all dived back to the cars behind us. I don't think he hit the couple other guys who were there. I did see the bullet holes later in the cars. First I went behind a tire and then looked under the body of the car. I've been trained how to respond to gunfire...but with my own weapon. To have no weapon I don't know how to explain what that felt like. I hadn't run away and stayed because I had thought about the consequences or anything like that. I wasn't thinking anything through. Please understand, there was no intention. I was just staying there because I didn't think about running. It never occurred to me that he might shoot me. Until he started shooting in my direction and I realized I was unarmed. Then the female cop comes around the corner. He shoots her. (according to the news accounts she got a round into him. I believe it, I just didn't see it. he didn't go down.) She goes down. He starts reloading. He's fiddling with his mags. Weirdly he hasn't dropped the one that was in his weapon. He's holding the fresh one and the old one (you do that on the range when time is not of the essence but in combat you would just let the old mag go). I see the male cop around the left corner of the building. (I'm about 15-20 meters from the shooter.) I yell at the cop, "He's reloading, he's reloading. Shoot him! Shoot him!) You have to understand, everything was quiet at this point. The cop appears to hear me and comes around the corner and shoots the shooter. He goes down. The cop kicks his weapon further away. I sprint up to the downed female cop. Another captain (I think he was with me behind the cars) comes up as well. She's bleeding profusely out of her thigh. We take our belts off and tourniquet her just like we've been trained (I hope we did it right...we didn't have any CLS (combat lifesaver) bags with their awesome tourniquets on us, so we worked with what we had). Meanwhile, in the most bizarre moment of the day, a photographer was standing over us taking pictures. I suppose I'll be seeing those tomorrow. Then a soldier came up and identified himself as a medic. I then realized her weapon was lying there unsecured (and on "fire"). I stood over it and when I saw a cop yelled for him to come over and secure her weapon (I would have done so but I was worried someone would mistake me for a bad guy). I then went over to the shooter. He was unconscious. A Lt Colonel was there and had secured his primary weapon for the time being. He also had a revolver. I couldn't believe he was one of ours. I didn't want to believe it. Then I saw his name and rank and realized this wasn't just some specialist with mental issues. At this point there was a guy there from CID and I asked him if he knew he was the shooter and had him secured. He said he did. I then went over the slaughter house...the medical SRP building. No human should ever have to see what that looked like, and I won't tell you. Just believe me. Please, there was nothing to be done there. Someone then said there was someone critically wounded around the corner. I ran around (while seeing this floor to ceiling window that someone had jumped through movie style) and saw a large African-American soldier lying on his back with two or three soldiers attending. I ran up and identified two entrance wounds on the right side of his stomach, one exit wound on the left side and one head wound. He was not bleeding externally from the stomach wounds (though almost certainly internally) but was bleeding from the head wound. A soldier was using a shirt to try and stop the head bleeding. He was conscious so I began talking to him to keep him so. He was 42, from North Carolina, he was named something Jr., his son was named something III and he had a daughter as well. His children lived with him. He was divorced. I told him the blubber on his stomach saved his life. He smiled. A young soldier in civvies showed up and identified himself as a combat medic. We debated whether to put him on the back of a pickup truck. A doctor (well, an audiologist) showed up and said you can't move him, he has a head wound. We finally sat tight. I went back to the slaughterhouse. They weren't letting anyone in there not even medics. Finally, after about 45 minutes had elapsed some cops showed up in tactical vests. Someone said the TBI building was unsecured. They headed into there. All of a sudden a couple more shots were fired. People shouted there was a second shooter. A half hour later the SWAT showed up. There was no second shooter, that had been an impetuous cop apparently. But that confused things for a while. Meanwhile, I went back to the shooter. The female cop had been taken away,and a medic was pumping plasma into the shooter. I'm not proud of this but I went up to her and said "this is the shooter, is there anyone else who needs attention...do them first". She indicated everyone else living was attended to. I still hadn't seen any EMTs or ambulances. I had so much blood on me that people kept asking me if I was ok. But that was all other people's blood. Eventually, (an hour and a half to two hours after the shootings) they started landing choppers. They took out the big African American guy and the shooter. I guess the ambulatory wounded were all at the SRP building. Everyone else in my area was dead. > > I suppose the emergency responders were told there were multiple shooters. I heard that was the delay with the choppers (they were all civilian helicopters). They needed a secure LZ, but other than the initial cops who did everything right, I didnt' see a lot of them for a while. I did see many a soldier rush out to help their fellows/sisters. There was one female soldier, I dont' know her name or rank but I would recognize her anywhere who was everywhere helping people. A couple people, mainly civilians, were hysterical, but only a couple. One civilian freaked out when I tried to comfort her when she saw my uniform. I guess she had seen the shooter up close. A lot of soldiers were rushing out to help even when we thought there was another gunman out there. This Army is not broken no matter what the pundits say. Not the Army I saw. And then they kept me for a long time to come. oh, and perhaps the most surreal thing, at 1500 (the end of the workday on Thursdays) when the bugle sounded we all came to attention and saluted the flag. in the middle of it all. this is what I saw. it can't have been real. but this is my small corner of what happened.

I was an ROTC DG and it never made it onto my SURF. Guess what? I don't care enough to get the record fixed. Good on you guys for getting DG in any program, but if you think anyone cares once your ceremony is over you are wrong. Consistant strats at home and deployed plus a few real awards and your PRF will be fine. I'm not discouraging anyone with the free time not to fix their record, just illustrating that it really doesn't matter.

Thought this was pretty nuts man, these girls are https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvEobeNfGcc.

Sorry, I can't argue with idiots. Some of the comments on there are so ignorant. People who have never deployed or left the service 15 years ago just have no idea how bad things really are and think we're just "complainers." Can't argue with stupid, anyone who tries to justify the level of absurdity the AF is currently engaged in is just not worth my time. Good on you for fighting the good fight.

Please share, I'm not familiar with that.

I take the test tomorrow. I also am using Shep air; waiting for you initial guys to take the test and give feedback trimmed the potential question database from 1500+ 2 weeks ago to just over 500 questions now. So thank you to the guys who took it early and gave them feedback!

As soon as you start moving around you'll realize how big the world is, and what a wide variety of hot women reside in it. There is no one woman for everyone. Dump this selfish drama chick and her mom, go have a great life flying planes and meet way hotter and more understanding women. Or continue to be a bitch and save your IPs the trouble of telling you to leave.

That is the truth. Thread drift: I was thinking something similar while I read the "advice for LTs" thread and noticed most of it focused on getting useless PME done, doing your masters etc. All true for getting promoted, but how sad when a new LT struggling to land on centerline walks into the flight/CC office and asks about SOS in-res. There seems to be an assumption amoung GOs that we are all equally good at flying and therefore the best way to judge someone is by the amount of additional shit they pile onto their SURF. Of course this diminishes the huge effort it takes to stay sharp and composed on every flight, but it's always easier to look good than to really be good. Back on topic, the day a general uses the SOF truths to guide his decision making process is the day their existance will matter at all. Good on those AFSOC units that live by them; some of us are not afforded that luxury.

I hear what you're saying about using the board to bitch. I do the same thing because you have to vent somehow and my wife doesn't want to hear it. You can say what you want about the missions leadership has given, my panties won't be twisted. But, as I said, I take issue with "old guys" hemming and hawwing about all the inexperienced guys standing up new squadrons. Dude, we're doing our best here and telling us how much we suck while we're trying to write a vol 3 isn't helping. Channel your rage at someone other than new LTs or guys new to AFSOC. We want to be here. Your advice is duely noted, unfortunatly it applies to an 0-7 not an 0-3.

WTF is up with your attitude? There are two wars going on and dudes from slicks & UPT are trying as hard as they can to get into AFSOC so they can get some of the action before we're pulled out.... and you're busy telling new guys they don't have a clue? No shit they don't have a clue, they're new! Big fucking suprise! Maybe instead of taking the "holier than thou" approach you should take a clue from CH- that dude is always reaching out to new guys who want to learn and doesn't spend time giving everyone shit for not being as old school gangsta as him. I appreciate the experience guys like you bring to most of these discussions, but to what end are you badgering the new squadrons tasked with new missions? What do you hope to accomplish by talking down to guys who have jumped into a shitty situation and are trying to make it work? AFSOC has new squadrons with new misisons and they need so many bodies that a lot of the guys are new. For the record, I haven't met a single straight out of UPT kid that isn't very excited to be in AFSOC. I heard stories about bitter 38 guys but have yet to meet one. These guys want to be part of the FIGHT, that matters. Skills can be taught and learned, attitude is what makes guys rise to the occasion. Why don't you either help with your experience or STFU and let the guys struggling to make it work struggle without your bullshit sarcasm. As to the OP, the 5th truth is obvious and many in AFSOC play it loose with the first four anyway. Just leave it be.

Standard SF bullshit. We are professional members of the USAF, not average joe yokle civilian. If you see the same guy a week later with a broken headlight, give him a ticket then... why is that hard? And if a commissioned officer can be trusted with an aircraft and ordnance and killing bad dudes and top secret shit, he (or she) can certainly be trusted to print a new card.

Ok, that is a new low for baseops barf stories. I guess it's good the stud got them out. But gross dude, gross.

How many masters classes do you need for the "+" to appear on your SURF? I just started my masters and won't even be halfway complete by my board next year.

Some people are so tactless they just need an ass kicking. Is it really like this in England? Link

I'm sure your intentions are honorable but I won't be signing your petition. There is too much change for the sake of change in the AF now, and very little mission focus outside the squadron level. I agree that of all the changes I've seen to date, this one appears to be the most worthy (honoring heros) but I just can't justify the cost and effort of renaming the handful of bases that aren't already named for someone special. Additionally, I live on Hurlburt Field (named for a pilot killed in the line of duty) and every street here is named for someone who deserves it. I'll concede that the AF could be better about honoring current heros, but there are more pressing issues at this time. Thanks for your ideas, and good luck on your quest.

Well played sir.

Bro is that the Don Carnage air-pirate mother ship of Tail Spin? If so, well played sir.