General Chang

Correct.

Umm, earth to Rusty...by definition, they are all the same. Stop whining.

Hmmm...you say that the bonus is significantly better, then you make my point for me talking about the value of $25K per year while calling me names. Again, don't delude yourself Mr. Helo; $25K per year is all you'll be offered. And for only 5 years. Take solace, however...you won't be stop-lossed if you don't take it. :-)

Thank you Hacker...at least someone on here reads my full post. "The Bonus did not same the same...11F's were offered a much different deal than they were years past. I wouldn't be surprised if that crosses into other communities next year." Helodude, did you miss the word "annually" in your haste to disagree? I know you are hoping beyond all hope that -11Hs will be included in the fighter plan next year.......not going to happen. See? Even the "disgruntled majority" (so-called) are taking the bonus. I rest my case. Have a great Air Force week.

Concur at P-gon. Like I said, senior leaders are not worried in the slightest (reference pilot bonus staying the same annually). A few disgruntled pilots on BODN does not a crisis make. Mark my words- pilots will stick around for the assurance of great compensation and a decent bonus program. As I've said all along, there are no studies to indicate even the hint of a troubling exodus of pilots to the airlines until 2017 earliest, if ever. You do not need to fear for the future of your beloved Air Force...it is in good hands.

Not going to happen. No need.

Nice. Elevating the conversation.

DE designator means nothing. The system automatically places it there by virtue of BPZ. Once you make Col-select, whether a prior SDE-select or never-SDE-select, it means nothing. If the Colonel's Group wants to send you (and they usually do), then you go. If they need you to work and skip SDE, depending on the career field, you do that. In other words, you are at the mercy of DPO. You don't even get to fill out an ADP anymore, because they don't even look at it. As a Colonel, you are completely "needs of the AF." The funny thing is, some guys drive hard their entire careers to be Colonels. Then, when they make it, they complain about the 365, followed by assignment to crapville, and complain that they've lost all control of their careers. And they are correct; as a Colonel, you lose virtually all control over or input into your career. Except, of course, the day you retire (but even on that issue, there's only two windows during the year in which a Colonel can control his retirement date).

And his boss, the AF/A1, is a ___________________. You're smart, I'll let you fill-in-the-blank, Azimuth.

Umm, incorrect. Once an officer is selected for Colonel, even if a previous SDE-select, there is no guarantee of school. The individual no longer meets the DEDB- they meet a special school panel in DPO with no guarantee of school. DPO will try to get O-6 BPZers to school as well, even if not previously SDE-select, but not required and no guarantees. You pilot idiots want to argue with someone deep in the personnel world about a personnel issue? Stick to airplanes, flyboys. You're not as briliiant as you think you are. For O-5 and above, strats first, followed by breadth (depth is assumed unless indicated otherwise).

Sure, I'll bite...it's one thing to offer opinions on here. Quite a different thing to cite procedures and numbers as fact without a clue what you're talking about.

No, just don't mislead people.

Don't post if you don't have a flipping clue what you're talking about. There's no such thing as an O-6 SDE-select. Rate for O-5 is around 15%, which includes all BPZers. This year's O-5 line BPZ rate was 3.1%.

Fair enough- good response.

Nah, I finished my Masters as a senior Captain. Worked out great- I put away the distractions (such as blogs) and actually had extra time with my family! Work-life balance Rusty...put away the blog for a few days, and give your wife and kids a hug with the extra 5 hours that are suddenly free in your schedule. Heck, you'd even have enough time to go back to school & get one of those "real" Masters you're always pining after! Okay, so that's likely to piss you off more. I'm sorry. You just come across to everyone as such an angry, bitter person because you weren't granted "select" status at your 2009 board, and it's too easy to give you crap. I really do hope you'll discover the good that you've done in your career, because I'm sure it's substantial. The honest truth, though, is there's nothing anyone on this board can say to you that takes your pain away of "getting screwed" at the board.

Rusty, Rusty, Rusty... You know, I truly hope you get promoted on your Lt Col IPZ board in two years & subsequently get picked for Squadron CC. Maybe then, you'll be able to display your superior leadership skills & solve all of the Air Force's problems.

From the lamb's mouth...

Rusty, Liquid has your head spinning so fast, nobody can keep up with your flip flopping! Your first argument is that APZ guys should have a shot to compete for DPs in future years with IPZ guys (without somehow hurting the IPZ guys), and when Liquid replies that the "best APZ guy" is almost always less deserving of a DP than the "last IPZ 'DP' guy" in any given year, you switch gears and say that APZ 'P' records should get looked at at promotion boards! That's after you earlier complained about writing APZ PRFs that nobody will look at! You are moving into the "severely complaining" realm!

Just an observation and a couple of questions... It seems like there are about 15-20 guys on this thread that are really fed up with the Air Force personnel system and want to do something about it. That is admirable. As pointed out, there's nothing you can currently do from your position, except point out the flaws to your leadership and maybe post some thoughts in this (or similar) forums. Again, admirable as long as it's not whining. Therefore, if you really want to change the system, yet you can't from your current position, why not: 1) Aspire to leadership; 2) Do what the current system requires of you to become a Commander; and 3) Do your best to implement your agenda once you are a Squadron Commander or above? Many excuses are bound to fly from these suggestions. I'm sure the biggest one from folks like Rusty will be, "GC, I've served with Squadron, Group, and Wing Commanders, and trust me, they have no ability to make changes." Or some of you may quote Tony Carr (great dude) and say, "GC, if Tony couldn't implement change and left, what shot do I have?" Well, I'll come back at you with some of the logic several of you have used against Liquid. Your Commanders in the past, to include Tony, hit a wall with their specific leadership. When you are in Command someday, who's to say that you won't have the exact leadership above you to hear your voice and implement change? You say to Liquid that times were different when he came up in the AF. True. But Commanders might be different in the future from what they are right now. Same logic. Young officers (especially Captains; Rusty, you're old, it's probably too late for you, my friend), if you feel so strongly that you have a better way, why not do what today's system requires of you in order to become a Commander and have a shot at change. Who knows- you may be hitting your head against a wall when you're a CC. Then again, you may have the perfect leadership team above you to make a difference in your subordinates' lives. I guarantee you, if you're still in the Air Force around the 17 year point, and some doofus is your Squadron Commander, and he has amazing leadership above him that is open to instituting change, you're going to wish you'd done your AAD and PME back when you were a Captain, however distasteful, in order to be in his position and make a difference. Young guys reading this thread- I know you're out there lurking in the shadows- everything Rusty, Champ, Animal, Vetter, Liquid, etc are saying about be the best you can be at your primary job above all else is absolutely correct. Don't even bother trying if you're not putting the mission first (alongside your family). But don't close doors later in your career to buck the system now; close those doors in a decade or so, when you're bucking the system as a Squadron/Group/Wing Commander, standing up unequivocally for what you think is best for the mission and your Airmen. Thoughts?

Rusty, If the take rate is lower than last year, you are correct & hit the nail on the head, it is because of the late release. Nothing has demonstrably changed from last year EXCEPT the very late release. Again, you won't be able to see the true effect of the -11F increase until next year, when the numbers will go up no matter when the release occurs, because 11Fs will not get out of the Air Force until the bonus info is released. Expect same bonus next year- increase for -11Fs only.

Two.

Hmmm...another great suggestion, Jaded! You guys are on a roll!! Hey F-16 guy with the sexist handle- you got any other good ones before I report in on Monday?

Merged, Not my program, but I've been hearing the same thing through the grapevine; a token "1 candidate from CAF, 1 candidate from MAF, 1 candidate from cyber, yadda yadda..." If you look at the numbers of school designees from 2011 (2012-2013 school year) vs. 2012 (2013-2014 school year), the numbers fell by darn near 200 Majors. That's fairly significant if you're going from 750ish down to 550ish. If what we're hearing through the rumor mill is correct, it sounds like another reduction may be in order at DEDB 2013, likely due to budget cuts. However, we still have a legal requirement to send all of the selects (top 20% from the Major's board) to school. To date, there has been no reduction in the "select" rate on the O-4 board, so the classes of 2001, 2002, 2003, and 2004 all have a full 20% select rate. This year's DEDB schedule is: 2001- last look, 2002- second look, 2003- first look. When the Air Force reduces the number of DEDB school designees, but does not reduce the select rate, the segment that gets squeezed is the candidates, IF the rumors are true (again, I have no first hand knowledge that they are true- just conjecture on my part, since you guys love reading conjecture on these threads). IF all of this is correct...I suspect the following is likely to happen: - WHEN the class of 2005 finally has their major's board, the school "select" rate will be set at 15%. - This year and next year, the candidates will be squeezed out - Starting at the DEDB in 2015 (when the class of 2005 hits their first school look), the "squeeze" will start to abate, and more candidates will be selected for school - Candidates will have even better shots in 2016 and 2017, as the last of the "20% classes" meet their last looks Bottom line- IF IF IF all of this is true, yes, the classes of 2001, 2002, 2003, and 2004 will have severely reduced, borderline impossible opportunities for candidates to go to school from this year forward, which means the Air Force would finally, no kidding, no hiding behind glass doors, be selecting nearly ALL of its future Wing Commanders and Brigadier Generals from those four class years....while they were Captains. For all of you "late bloomers" out there, let that sit in your craw for a second. **A BIT OF GOOD NEWS, HOWEVER**- the Air Force is STILL promoting to Lieutenant Colonel at an 85% clip per class year, and STILL promoting at a 50-55% clip to Colonel. Even if those rates slip by 5% each over the next couple of years, you will still have a significant number of O-5 and O-6 promotees that have NEVER been to school. Soooo...unlike in the past, when 35% of a given class year went to IDE and those made up a significant chunk of your future Colonels, now, you may have 25% or less going to IDE for 2001-2004, opening a wider promotion gap for non-attendees. Just food for thought.

Hmmm...interesting policy suggestion...see, you guys can come up with stuff that reaches the Pentagon!

No, Rusty, it's not a joke, and you should be bothered by these guys too. You have posted some substantive stuff on these threads, but what these guys are putting out here for all the world to see is a sexist attitude that has no place in the Air Force.