General Chang

No, just don't mislead people.

Don't post if you don't have a flipping clue what you're talking about. There's no such thing as an O-6 SDE-select. Rate for O-5 is around 15%, which includes all BPZers. This year's O-5 line BPZ rate was 3.1%.

Fair enough- good response.

Nah, I finished my Masters as a senior Captain. Worked out great- I put away the distractions (such as blogs) and actually had extra time with my family! Work-life balance Rusty...put away the blog for a few days, and give your wife and kids a hug with the extra 5 hours that are suddenly free in your schedule. Heck, you'd even have enough time to go back to school & get one of those "real" Masters you're always pining after! Okay, so that's likely to piss you off more. I'm sorry. You just come across to everyone as such an angry, bitter person because you weren't granted "select" status at your 2009 board, and it's too easy to give you crap. I really do hope you'll discover the good that you've done in your career, because I'm sure it's substantial. The honest truth, though, is there's nothing anyone on this board can say to you that takes your pain away of "getting screwed" at the board.

Rusty, Rusty, Rusty... You know, I truly hope you get promoted on your Lt Col IPZ board in two years & subsequently get picked for Squadron CC. Maybe then, you'll be able to display your superior leadership skills & solve all of the Air Force's problems.

From the lamb's mouth...

Rusty, Liquid has your head spinning so fast, nobody can keep up with your flip flopping! Your first argument is that APZ guys should have a shot to compete for DPs in future years with IPZ guys (without somehow hurting the IPZ guys), and when Liquid replies that the "best APZ guy" is almost always less deserving of a DP than the "last IPZ 'DP' guy" in any given year, you switch gears and say that APZ 'P' records should get looked at at promotion boards! That's after you earlier complained about writing APZ PRFs that nobody will look at! You are moving into the "severely complaining" realm!

Just an observation and a couple of questions... It seems like there are about 15-20 guys on this thread that are really fed up with the Air Force personnel system and want to do something about it. That is admirable. As pointed out, there's nothing you can currently do from your position, except point out the flaws to your leadership and maybe post some thoughts in this (or similar) forums. Again, admirable as long as it's not whining. Therefore, if you really want to change the system, yet you can't from your current position, why not: 1) Aspire to leadership; 2) Do what the current system requires of you to become a Commander; and 3) Do your best to implement your agenda once you are a Squadron Commander or above? Many excuses are bound to fly from these suggestions. I'm sure the biggest one from folks like Rusty will be, "GC, I've served with Squadron, Group, and Wing Commanders, and trust me, they have no ability to make changes." Or some of you may quote Tony Carr (great dude) and say, "GC, if Tony couldn't implement change and left, what shot do I have?" Well, I'll come back at you with some of the logic several of you have used against Liquid. Your Commanders in the past, to include Tony, hit a wall with their specific leadership. When you are in Command someday, who's to say that you won't have the exact leadership above you to hear your voice and implement change? You say to Liquid that times were different when he came up in the AF. True. But Commanders might be different in the future from what they are right now. Same logic. Young officers (especially Captains; Rusty, you're old, it's probably too late for you, my friend), if you feel so strongly that you have a better way, why not do what today's system requires of you in order to become a Commander and have a shot at change. Who knows- you may be hitting your head against a wall when you're a CC. Then again, you may have the perfect leadership team above you to make a difference in your subordinates' lives. I guarantee you, if you're still in the Air Force around the 17 year point, and some doofus is your Squadron Commander, and he has amazing leadership above him that is open to instituting change, you're going to wish you'd done your AAD and PME back when you were a Captain, however distasteful, in order to be in his position and make a difference. Young guys reading this thread- I know you're out there lurking in the shadows- everything Rusty, Champ, Animal, Vetter, Liquid, etc are saying about be the best you can be at your primary job above all else is absolutely correct. Don't even bother trying if you're not putting the mission first (alongside your family). But don't close doors later in your career to buck the system now; close those doors in a decade or so, when you're bucking the system as a Squadron/Group/Wing Commander, standing up unequivocally for what you think is best for the mission and your Airmen. Thoughts?

Rusty, If the take rate is lower than last year, you are correct & hit the nail on the head, it is because of the late release. Nothing has demonstrably changed from last year EXCEPT the very late release. Again, you won't be able to see the true effect of the -11F increase until next year, when the numbers will go up no matter when the release occurs, because 11Fs will not get out of the Air Force until the bonus info is released. Expect same bonus next year- increase for -11Fs only.

Two.

Hmmm...another great suggestion, Jaded! You guys are on a roll!! Hey F-16 guy with the sexist handle- you got any other good ones before I report in on Monday?

Merged, Not my program, but I've been hearing the same thing through the grapevine; a token "1 candidate from CAF, 1 candidate from MAF, 1 candidate from cyber, yadda yadda..." If you look at the numbers of school designees from 2011 (2012-2013 school year) vs. 2012 (2013-2014 school year), the numbers fell by darn near 200 Majors. That's fairly significant if you're going from 750ish down to 550ish. If what we're hearing through the rumor mill is correct, it sounds like another reduction may be in order at DEDB 2013, likely due to budget cuts. However, we still have a legal requirement to send all of the selects (top 20% from the Major's board) to school. To date, there has been no reduction in the "select" rate on the O-4 board, so the classes of 2001, 2002, 2003, and 2004 all have a full 20% select rate. This year's DEDB schedule is: 2001- last look, 2002- second look, 2003- first look. When the Air Force reduces the number of DEDB school designees, but does not reduce the select rate, the segment that gets squeezed is the candidates, IF the rumors are true (again, I have no first hand knowledge that they are true- just conjecture on my part, since you guys love reading conjecture on these threads). IF all of this is correct...I suspect the following is likely to happen: - WHEN the class of 2005 finally has their major's board, the school "select" rate will be set at 15%. - This year and next year, the candidates will be squeezed out - Starting at the DEDB in 2015 (when the class of 2005 hits their first school look), the "squeeze" will start to abate, and more candidates will be selected for school - Candidates will have even better shots in 2016 and 2017, as the last of the "20% classes" meet their last looks Bottom line- IF IF IF all of this is true, yes, the classes of 2001, 2002, 2003, and 2004 will have severely reduced, borderline impossible opportunities for candidates to go to school from this year forward, which means the Air Force would finally, no kidding, no hiding behind glass doors, be selecting nearly ALL of its future Wing Commanders and Brigadier Generals from those four class years....while they were Captains. For all of you "late bloomers" out there, let that sit in your craw for a second. **A BIT OF GOOD NEWS, HOWEVER**- the Air Force is STILL promoting to Lieutenant Colonel at an 85% clip per class year, and STILL promoting at a 50-55% clip to Colonel. Even if those rates slip by 5% each over the next couple of years, you will still have a significant number of O-5 and O-6 promotees that have NEVER been to school. Soooo...unlike in the past, when 35% of a given class year went to IDE and those made up a significant chunk of your future Colonels, now, you may have 25% or less going to IDE for 2001-2004, opening a wider promotion gap for non-attendees. Just food for thought.

Hmmm...interesting policy suggestion...see, you guys can come up with stuff that reaches the Pentagon!

No, Rusty, it's not a joke, and you should be bothered by these guys too. You have posted some substantive stuff on these threads, but what these guys are putting out here for all the world to see is a sexist attitude that has no place in the Air Force.

Vetter, Chuck17, ChampKind, Animal, and all of you other disturbed officers out there, Your callousness, bitterness, perversion, and outright disgusting behavior turns my stomach. YOURS are the types of attitudes that General Welsh is trying to weed out of the Air Force. He will be successful, and all of the sexist children in the Air Force will quickly find themselves out of a job (at least in uniform). You guys talk about core values in other threads?? Look at the filth you are posting! I am begging you, please reevaluate your own character before subjecting your squadron-mates to this disgusting behavior, because there will be consequences in the not-too-distant future. You know, I often think to myself, "If my daughter wants to join the service, will I be 100% behind her when the time comes?" Reading this thread and trash that "adults in charge" are posting here gives me great pause when answering that question... How can you identify sexual discrimination in your subordinates when you are actively practicing that type of behavior in your mind? Please meditate on & pray about what I've said here.

Tanker, Good, reasoned thought. Only a couple of probs: 1. The AF doesn't have the option to guess when a hiring boom might take place wrt spending taxpayer $ on the bonus. 2. Even with staff overages, the Wings are still fully manned (and then some) with -11Ms. There's not enough room for them all; if you look at the UMDs and especially the TDY charts, there is clearly a large overage. And I'm talking trends for the UMDs and TDYs, not just one year. Heck, C-17 pilots, I bet your SF brothers would love your TDY rates! These are the types of numbers your senior leaders are looking at to make manning & bonus decisions. Since I'm offending a great many people (other than Mr. Pipes), I'll make this my last post here. For those of you who feel you are overworked for the money you are paid, I'll throw out an additional suggestion besides RPAs, AETC, and getting out. Many people are intimidated for some reason by volunteering to work staff at the Pentagon. You should consider it. You don't have to worry about flying currencies, the hours for most FGO jobs are 8ish to 4:30 with 1-1.5 hour lunches, you don't ever have to worry about work on the weekends, and there's tons of free museums, sports teams, family life is great...it's the Air Force's best kept secret. Think about it- it's a pretty sweet gig. Flyers, enjoy those crazy awesome bonuses, keep up the good work. I'm grateful for the awesome opportunities the Air Force has and continues to provide me, and I believe there are more people that not in the Air Force that are grateful for what they've been (and are continued to be) given by Big Blue. Keep the faith!

Rusty, you complain so much about the C-17 tempo, but then I offer the Grand Forks suggestion to moderate your family life, and you complain about that. You can't seem to believe anyone would enjoy UAVs, when many people appreciate the change of pace. You're not happy about the $0 bonus, but if you were included, I suspect you would complain about your bonus not being as much as a fighter pilot. If you were to get the fighter bonus, you would complain that you shouldn't have to sign a 9 year contract in which the Air Force has the upper hand. I'll concede some of the points on this forum about "service" only going so far, but Rusty, you seem to be so jaded that you are 100% in it for yourself, and that is very, very toxic.

Most squadrons have a few civilians for continuity and to overcome the few instances when attached personnel can't pull their weight on a particular week. Not sure what the major complaint is here- we need certain officers to obtain specific mentoring (especially executive officers) in order to become tomorrow's senior leaders. Are you proposing that a line flyer without any staff training at the Gp/Wg/above level should be considered for DO and CC opportunities? I propose those individuals would be extremely one-dimensional in their approach to problem solving. There is a reason certain people who obtain certain experiences are granted future opportunities to lead, while others remain at the tactical level. We need both types to be successful.

Champ Kind, Your leadership is in charge of ensuring attached guys fly an equitable amount of hours. As an O-3 IP in the squadron, your job is to fill in the occasional slack and trust your bosses to worry about any attached issues. If you are frustrated by this, why not approach your DO with your grievances?

Guaranteed for 80+% (75% in the zone, 5+% BPZ)

Wings are assigned people based on UMD AFSCs. If a Wing pulls up a guy without a slot, they must be attached to the Wing, but they are still flying with the squadron. As a result, the squadron is still getting full use of the pilot in the aircraft. Hence, there is no overage (and most Wings have way more -11Ms than UMD billets). Again, manning is not an issue- your C-17 squadrons have more than enough pilots to do the mission you should be doing.

Absolutely agree. Coming out, saying "Guys, we screwed up, I'm sorry" would have been at least a ground-rule double. Getting the process right in the first place would have been the homerun.

Hang tough, Flaco. You may not see the benefits of your work here, but you are making an impact on people.

My friend, there are GOs that look at more than the numbers. Then there are staffs that look at just the numbers. It's up to the CSAF to look at the whole enchilada. If I were to look at more than the numbers, I'm doing a serious disservice to the Air Force. You cannot have emotion enter BOTH sides of the equation, or the CSAF does not have the correct sight picture with which to make long-term decisions. Personally, I feel that sufficient numbers of people would have stayed this year with just an -11F bonus. That did not happen. I would bet my career that next year's -11F retention numbers for 2002/2003 will exceed ALL expectations after this year's (very late) bonus raise. Yes, a few will still get out, but $100K+ per year pay until retirement, free medical for the entire family, guaranteed retirement at O-5 of $52K+ per year and climbing, AND $225K signing bonus with $112.5K up front? Oh man, what a pile of gold! I suspect, by your emotional reactions to this thread since you found out you get $0 bonus, that you would be the very first one in line to sign up, if you were an -11F at the 11-12 year point.

Love this, agree with this, absolutely spot on. GO pay should never be allowed to balloon like it does. Congress has to fix that one. Also, correct about GO billets- 17 down so far, plus a couple of AF GOs in joint billets....watch that number continue to plunge over the next few years. O-4s and O-5s aren't the only problem, they are the problem with the cheapest solution. Retirement boards for Colonels as well? Watch and see... Yes, cannot argue that- good point. As I previously stated, big-time screw-up on A1's part.