euro2005

shack. There's a gold mine of info here thanks to the OP's question.

It seems to take forever in the AC-130W community. BTW, I'm not a pilot so I can't exactly pin-point a good time frame. Maybe 3 years or so though and it's usually people who have been around long enough to be shop chiefs & flt/ccs.

AC-130W 1. Ops Tempo/Deployment - We just rotate crews in and out year round for a few months at a time. Expect to go once a year, some folks go twice. It's not too long and some folks even say it's too short because once you are fully used to everything and settled in, it's time to start outprocessing to go home. 2. Lifestyle/ Family Stability - As for TDYs, it was slow going this summer but that was only because of the addition of the 105. Half the airplanes are fully functional (with the 105) and the rest are either being upgraded or will be soon enough. The entire squadron has to get qualified with it too. Some crew positions go much faster than others. The nav/CSO types take the longest because they have to accomplish a checkride in addition to their training sorties. The TDYs are just now starting to come back though. It's normal for us to be gone all the time on TDYs and in 2017, I expect it'll be back in full force. As for family stability, if you get the W don't expect to move anywhere anytime soon for at least 5-7 years. That's normal around here. I've seen this strengthen marriages and destroy marriages though. 3. Community morale - this is Clovis so... You probably won't find me in town on the weekends. You'll probably find me hiking on a mountain a few hours away or at an event of some sort in a big city. Because there's not much to do in Clovis itself, we definitely do have really strong friendships and it forces us to check out some really awesome places. Driving 3-4 hours one way sucks but oh well, we have to work with what we have and many of these places are worth it. 4. Advancements & Future of the airframe - The W was initially a stop gap and then the J has been taking much longer than anticipated. We all expect to fly the J eventually (if we stick around long enough). Many of our guys have already PCS'd to the J squadron. Until the J is fully operational, I expect the W will be here at least until then. When will that be? I don't know. 2020 maybe? In the mean time, this aircraft is a testbed for all sorts of crazy things. One FTU instructor was telling me that back when it was still an MC-130W, for a little bit they would air drop troops and then provide CAS for those same troops. That honestly blew my mind. The W constantly evolves which I think is pretty cool. It never gets boring. 5. Preferred PCS locations - Hurlburt to fly the J? I don't think I've ever seen any of our guys go to the U. They only come from the U. Maybe I'm wrong on that but from what I've seen, they all have gone to the J (or the 14th Weapons Squadron also at Hurlburt). If you've been in long enough, expect a staff gig in AFSOC or SOCOM instead. Some of the guys in the staff gigs do come back to Cannon to fly every now and then though.

In my squadron it's not frowned upon to have a drink or two at the end of the day. There's kind of an unwritten rule I noticed...wait to crack open a beer until 1530 or so. Or if the boss says beer light's on of course. And obviously in debrief after a flight. Beer is always welcome in debrief, checkride or not! Apparently in the old days, it was common for the morning flight's crew to arrive to find the previous night's crew in the bar either still drinking or passed out. Well, I guess this wasn't too long ago...the guy who witnessed this (and participated in it) has been in my squadron for maybe 10 years, if that. Those days are long gone though.

Wow, that's nuts! Yep, I'm a little jealous of those folks going to Hurby! I do miss the gulf coast and Pensacola. Been TDY to Hurlburt a few times now and it's always nice to go there too. Hopefully I'll get to PCS there someday...I do love the beach and it's within driving distance to go home and see my parents and friends on the weekends too (but far enough so my family doesn't bug me constantly lol). It'll also give them a chance to make weekend trips to see me and spend time on the beach instead of flying out to the desert and having to drive 3+ hours to go see something cool hahaha

too bad those AC-130W guys will be sitting around for awhile! There's talk of shutting down the FTU (until there's a new syllabus created for when the 105 gets added) I have no idea if they are shutting it down or not though, just rumint.

I've been here almost 2 years now. Yeah the town itself definitely is not the greatest. I'm from a bigger city so this was definitely a culture shock. Me and my buddies routinely travel to bigger cities just for the weekends. We also go hiking a lot. Of course to get to another city or do something outdoors-y, it's a bit of a drive. That's why we carpool and plan this shit out. My advice for anyone moving to Cannon, find yourself a good group of people and do shit together. It definitely takes away a lot of the suck. This goes for married folks too. Some of my best buddies are married and they'll go on these excursions too. I live on the eastern side of Clovis and I like where I live (as far as the neighborhood goes). My neighbors are cool and when it's warmer outside, we're usually out and about and drinking beer with each other in each other's driveways. My house is a bit older too...it was built over 20 years ago. It may have been built in the 70s, not sure. Anyways, my point is it wasn't built by the one and only builder in town. I have a friend who had a house built by him and the damn house is just falling apart. Idk, many folks have houses made by him though and are fine though. I personally like living in an older house. It's sturdy. When not out of town, there's usually a house party or at the very least a gathering of some sort going on at someone's house. There's really not much else to do in town other than to hang out at each other's houses. There's karaoke at Kelly's on Thursdays...I've been only a couple times but it can be fun if with the right people. I know Kelly's had some crime there but I don't think anything has happened in at least 2 years (at least nothing that I've heard of). I know there were stabbings in the past but now, I guess it has gotten better. I say this now, watch there be a stabbing soon haha As for the folks stuck in the dorms, make friends. I asked an airman what it was like living in the dorms and he said that for the most part, folks keep their doors closed (maybe it was just his hallway at the time, I don't know). I lived in the CSO dorms in P'cola and we always had our doors open. It was so folks can just walk in and out and made it easier for folks to hang out and get to know each other. I was friends with just about everyone who lived in my hallway. Why the hell not?! We always hung out together too and had a lot of fun. We even had our own Thanksgiving potluck that we put together. I know Cannon isn't the most desirable place on earth and it has to really suck for someone fresh out of basic or tech school. Just make friends and avoid any stupid drama. Apparently there's gonna be a Starbucks put in the grocery store. Progress. haha (There is one on base...it's been open only a year now. Apparently the locals got pissed off when they found out one was put on base...because the shifty 50 didn't want one in town. So the base took it.) Hopefully the shifty 50 allow more progress. I feel like Main St could be a really damn cool place to hang out on the weekends if it was allowed to grow. Instead, more than half of the lots are empty. If they put some cool bars and restaurants there, that would be awesome! I have downtown Pensacola in mind (minus the water, duh!)...WOB, Whiskey Bar, some restaurants, pizza place with a lot of taps, a few art stores, etc. Idk, apparently it was like that decades ago. It's probably wishful thinking on my part. Also, Allsups and the churches need to give up those damn liquor licenses they've been hoarding. That's why a liquor license costs half a million dollars here whereas in any other place they're usually only $1-5k.

Congrats! I was happy to leave that place too. The DA-20 was a fun little airplane but I wouldn't want to go through that again. You're probably done with or close to being done with SERE. I really enjoyed SERE (except for the RT labs haha) I had a really good time out in the field and it helps that my element & instructors were awesome. Good luck in UCT!

@chicken - Kirtland? That would be cool too. Do you mean it would be like LR but at a different location or do you mean the entire 551 might move there? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

My instructors treated me fine. I didn't have any issues with them. I had issues with the program and I did fill out a critique at the end. Someone mentioned Cat I procedures...that's part of what I was referring to. A checkride in that is not a bad idea if future 551 students will never get sent to LR. Or it could be part of the BQ check they want to start doing. A checkride of some sort will ensure that the students are learning what they need to and that instructors will take more time to teach it by adding more academics, etc. I did bring up not going to LR in my critique and I even brought it up when the AFSOAWC commander visited for a meet and greet session with the students. He said that because the FTU is still producing navs, there's not a dire need to spend the extra money to send us all on a 3 month TDY. I can see that, money is tight. Maybe send only the pipeline folks there and the rest straight to the FTU...they're the ones who need it most anyways. Most of my SCNS knowledge was thanks to some friends who were previously qual'd slick navs (because the 551st instructors are overworked which also really sucks for everyone...they're constantly flying.) One of my friends also gave me a SCNS CD (that he got from LR) for my computer so I could practice using it at home. It certainly helped. I guess I have such a huge grievance towards this because as a pipeline student, it can be overwhelming. Many of my friends come from other platforms and have at least part of the puzzle solved...the U-28 has similar software, the slicks have SCNS & a radar, other gunships use the same tactics so when it comes to learning the rest, they don't struggle as much because they don't have to learn everything from scratch. One of my friends who is an H turned W guy even said it's a ton of stuff for a new guy to learn. He has been in for 10 years and even he felt bad for the pipeline guys. I've also heard some instructors talk about how the program wasn't built for pipeline guys and that they fully expect most pipeline students to hook a ride or two and need extra rides due to that fact. Going to LR can help alleviate this, at least a little bit. They'll come in knowing all the nav stuff and just have to focus on learning tactics at the 551st instead of splitting time between the two. Maybe I'm way off base but I do remember asking an instructor what I should study for that week. His response: "everything" That's an appropriate response for a checkride but I was not even close to checking out at this point. Even for my checkride, I was given specific things to study. My brain exploded when he told me that! @olevelo - It's the EC-Hs I was referring to. W guys used to go to LR...they stopped a few years back. Anyone who has gone since then was supposed to fly the AC-H but well you know, those retired. @chicken - sorry if I sound like I'm complaining. These were problems I dealt with and many other students dealt with too. I made it through and gave it my all. After all, I really love this airplane and wasn't going to let this opportunity go. At the 16th currently and it's been good...loving life! Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I had a friend try going from cyber to pilot but he wasn't accepted. He's doing what you're doing, trying to get more hours and he wants to try again. Go for it!

Oh wow, that's really interesting! It's about time they did something with the jack of all trades master of none program. ES was easy and AI was fun, but they were still useless for me. SP kinda relates to my job...ehhh kinda. ER totally does. I had an ER nightmare while avoiding thunderstorms a few months back...gave me horrible flashbacks hahaha

I have no idea how they changed IFS (or IFT) but bottom line, study your butt off! One of my buddies in my OTS class was one of the very first to not go to IFS because he had a PPL. He did just fine in UCT and now flies B-1s. Same goes for another dude I went through OTS with...0 flight hours but was a natural. Did just fine in IFS and he was #2 in my UCT class then washed back for personal reasons. The class he washed into wasn't happy because they knew he was taking one of their coveted Strike Eagle slots. Another guy SIEd out of IFS with 0 flight hours. I also knew someone else who had a commercial license and 300+ hours and washed out of UCT. Another guy in my OTS & UCT class was an airline pilot and is flying F-15Es now too. It can go in so many different ways, there's no telling. I think it's how you can handle the stress. Anyways, learn the local flying procedures and ask one of the IPs (who isn't busy) to go out to one of the airplanes in the hangar and go over checklists with you. I never did that while in IFS but I wish I had. In UCT I had some of the IPs go through checklists with me though. It certainly helps especially if you have very little flight experience. Half the battle was knowing where the buttons were and which ones I should be pressing next and why. The other half was figuring out where I was going and comms. I had a cheat sheet with the radio calls on it because I had never done anything like that before. Get someone to chairfly those radio calls & checklists with you. That'll also help out so much. Good luck!

That's exactly what I did. Instead of listing a model, I listed what crew position I wanted (nav or EWO). All I wanted was gunships because of the mission and I could care less about location. I knew full well it was a 50/50 shot between Cannon and Hurby. I wound up getting Cannon. Cannon does suck but the camaraderie is fantastic. As for crossflow between airframes, in my short time within AFSOC I've seen it happen a few times already. There's more and more crossflow between the Us and Ws now. The Ws just got someone from U-28s too. And all the folks from the old 16th are either now on the Ws, Us and who knows where else. Not within AFSOC but there's a ton of folks from C-130Hs in the 16th now (pilots, navs, and FEs) since those squadrons shut down too. One of my good friends is a C-146 pilot and lots of them are getting non-vold into RPAs...right back to Cannon...that's another discussion entirely though.

To add on to the discussion about LR: AC-130W navs don't even go to LR anymore. The ones who did were assigned the H but got reclassed to the W since the H is retired now. I was talking with some of my EC-130 nav bros and they go to LR...they don't even use SCNS. They get to the EC FTU and have to relearn everything (I think they use something called CANS?) while the W navs do use SCNS and get shit on at the 551st because they don't know how to use SCNS at all when they first get there. Shit's ass backwards.

Hey there, CSO school is 11 months long. When you get to NASP, expect to wait on average 2 months to go to IFS. Some went in as little as 2 weeks and others waited nearly 6 months so be prepared for that as well. IFS is roughly a month long. The wait between IFS and UCT is also on average about 2 months as well, but it can vary. You'll do water survival (3 day class which is held at NASP) at some point before you start UCT too. Water survival can be done before or after IFS, it doesn't matter. All in all, expect to be at NASP anywhere from 1.5-2 years total.

Yes, the last day is when all this happens. We had the winging ceremony in the morning around 8 and then after that in the late morning, we all took turns taking our families into the simulators...we were given a sheet with all the time slots and had to pick whatever was open. We also were allowed to show them around the squadrons and take them out onto the flightline too (there was still training going on so I made sure to stay out of the way of the other students and airplanes!) The afternoon on the day prior to your winging you will do a soft winging ceremony. Families aren't typically invited to those unless they're winged aviators themselves. It's more exclusive. These are the only events you'll do for graduation. It's not a week long celebration. We had people still doing syllabus events (flights) up until the day before the winging. One dude almost didn't make it to the soft winging ceremony because he was flying that day.

I didn't know that about the WWII bomber crews. I looked it up further and found that they wore them while flying to keep their heads warm since they didn't have heat in their cockpits. I was told 2 reasons why folks wear their flight caps like that nowadays: The first is if someone broke the sound barrier, the second is because this other person told me he killed people. I've heard of the sound barrier thing on a few different occasions and I guess it's fairly common practice but killing people? I asked him about it because I knew about the sound barrier thing and was wondering because he didn't fly on anything that broke the sound barrier. I think this dude was just crazy.

The dates don't shift but I don't know what they are though. A class graduates roughly every 3-4 weeks. There's 15 classes a year that graduate...that should give you an idea of how often this happens.

what is the mileage limit? and how big does the city have to be in order for it to not be considered remote? I'm at Cannon...

That's easy to say if you had a PPL! ;) I went through in Oct/Nov of 2012. What everyone said is spot on. The VNAV routes were fun, I really liked those. For someone who had only 4 flight hours going into IFS, I found it wasn't easy at all. It was a fire hose of information within a short time span. Needless to say, I didn't screw around and studied my butt off. They don't send people to IFS if they have PPLs (some Guard units still do I believe) though. I struggled with GK and at first I was realllllly slow with checklists. Near the end, it was nothing but a thing, I passed and was sent on my way. Except for the flying part (cause flying is fun, unless your IP is a sarcastic ass!), IFS was a crappy experience for me 23 hours out of the day. I was glad to be done. I thoroughly enjoyed CSO school though. I could go on and on about how great it was (no, I'm not being sarcastic either. It had its crappy moments like anything else too but the good definitely outweighed the bad). Tip for the VNAV routes, every night before you fly, chairfly the route on google earth. Someone mapped them out on google earth and because of that, I had no issues finding the points. There's one particular route that sucks though (even the IPs think so)...if you can't find the next turn point then just turn on time. One of the points was a mound of dirt...there's lots of those out there! Somehow I did manage to find it but it was at the last second right before I commanded the turn. Study hard and good luck!

It's about time another AC-130W dropped! It's only been a year...that was me. We have been getting a huge influx of dudes from other communities like the C-130H & the AC-130H so that's why it's been a year.

I got a couple of friends who are RPA pilots...there's definitely a continum of how much they like it. One particular friend likes the mission but he hates Cannon. He's been here for 4 years now or something. He's been wanting to leave and they keep dicking him around in terms of the ADSC and leaving Cannon. Because of this he's trying to leave the AF. He's been in close to ten years and worked in CE before he transitioned. The other folks I know are much newer to the AF like myself. They aren't completely jaded but they have said morale sucks in their squadrons.

Was just reading this thread and came across the discussion about clubs. Here at Cannon, it's a mixed-rank club. Nobody hangs there unless it's for a function of some sort. I've had fun there but it's always for a function. I've never really gotten to experience the fun that used to happen at an AF O Club. But, I did get to experience it at NAS Pensacola! That O Club was awesome. It typically closed whenever the last folks left or when the barteder kicked us out because she wanted to go out and get drunk too! Lots of students...Navy pilots & NFOs and AF CSOs. Some of our instructors would go there too (not as frequent as the students but they would make their appearances). Also, every so often, the AF would have a pint night there just because we like to drink. $10 gets you a glass and 2 beers. When I was there, the AF folks would typically close out the bar and we would take over the pool table to play games of crud. The Navy dudes would have their flight suit Friday most Fridays (and lots of AF people drank on their tab lol), we had our drop nights there (mine was in one of our hangars because the O Club was booked!) and in general many folks just went to go and drink and have a good time with friends. I highly doubt this particular club is having financial issues. Somehow, it works. Also, the bar area just looks like somewhere I would like to go drink. It's not super fancy and there's various squadron stickers all over the mirrors on the bar back. There's spots where people can hang their custom mugs and they can leave these mugs there (until they PCS I guess). Along one of the walls there's a strip of velcro with all of the patches from all the flights who have graduated, for both branches. The food is also decent. Not the best ever but certain things were pretty good. I miss that place. Yeah, definitely is not what is wrong with the AF...we need more places like this ;)

As for taking a class while in the FTU, my thinking behind it is I don't have any extra responsibility outside of work at all...no kids, no family here, no pets (well, my roommate has a cat but that hardly counts lol) and my roommate hires a maid to clean. Also, I live in Clovis. There is NOTHING to do around here, except take online classes apparently. I'm not the only one taking a class online while at the FTU. So far we're all doing ok. One dude who's taking a class just completed the FTU last week actually. I still have a few months. Side note: apparently there was a guy going through the same FTU at some point last year...he was taking 2 classes and completely hosed himself. Yeah, I'm not going to take 2 at a time for a while. I want to get good at my job first! As for nav school not being hard, I'm not gonna sit here and talk shit like that other guy. For me, some of it was hard and some of it was easy. It depends on what it was. He mentioned gunships & pilots driving the bus. I'm in the gunship FTU and yeah, I know gunship pilots do alot more than just drive the bus!