Vertigo

Probably... but I'm glad I was spared having to listen to 4 hours of Rush calling Obama a hypocrite for using the F22 as a background piece.

Probably because ATOC doesn't have anything to do with fuel. POL does that... ATOC puts on your cargo/pax (more sepcifically Aerial Port does, ATOC is the C&C of the Aerial Port). Unless you've got a new concept aircraft that burns pax as fuel... wait a minute! That gives me an idea! Edit: Ok, I commented before I saw your second post explaining it more in detail. But curious, why were you contacting ATOC for fuel? Was it because they were the only USAF personnel at the base or ?? Most likely the no fuel policy was put in place by the Marines several years ago when things were a bit rougher and when that MEF left and another took its place, followed by another, no one ever readdressed that policy. Hell they probably weren't even aware of their own policy. I can't, in any way shape or form, imagine ATOC creating a rule to deny fuel when ATOC isn't even involved in that process at all.

Because the other one looks like this:

Mmmm... schnitzels.

Results after 2 rounds USS Maersk-Alabama 2 Somali pirates 0 https://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa/11/18/maersk.alabama.pirates/index.html

Is that all it boils down to? Is because others don't belive in their God? Or is there a national/cultural identity aspect to the Islamic terrorists ideals as well? Didn't Osama claim the Al Qaeda terror attacks on U.S. embassies was a retaliation for western forces being in Arab lands in his 1998 fatwa? Aren't their attacks on the U.S. more about our foreign policies rather than what God we believe in? Al Qaeda affiliated Abu Musab al Zarqawi, just before the January Iraqi elections, gave a speech in which he listed seven reasons to condemn democracy. If the terrorist are only attacking us based on RELIGIOUS and not POLITICAL reasons, why bring this up? Because to Islamic extremism, democracy is toxic. Reverse the situation in Bosnia. Would you still claim that religion had nothing to do with it if it were Muslims that committed genocide by killing some 30,000 - 40,000 Christians? Or would you claim that it is just more proof that Islam is a violent religion. Seriously, think about it. Exactly. Correlation is not causation (at least not fully).

Rule 1 of being a ninja- don't talk about being a ninja!

Bosnia... I guess you're forgetting that little bit of genocide of 8000 Serbian Muslims (Bosniaks) and some 25,000 to 30,000 muslim refugees in Srebrenica. How about the 3500+ muslim children that were killed by Serb snipers in Sarajevo? The destruction of mosques? The dominant religion in Serbia? 90% of the population identified Christian (Orthodox and Catholicism). But yeah... Islam in the violent religion. /sarcasm Now you do the math. NO DIFFERENCE.

Talk about some strict gun control laws... from our brothers across the pond comes this lovely news story which defies all common sense: https://www.thisissurreytoday.co.uk/news/Ex-soldier-faces-jail-handing-gun/article-1509082-detail/article.html

It didn't... I was attempting to prove that correlation is not causation.

Methinks vetter was using something I like to call humor. I'm fairly confident he knows who RB is.

So you purposely ignored my earlier post listing the Christian terrorist organizations. Oh, nice spin on Rudolph... you failed to mention that he injured 150 people with his bombings. I guess those people are unimportant to your point. How many terrorist acts has Osama Bin Laden carried out in person? None as far as I'm aware of. Doesn't mean he's not considered a terrorist. You seem to think that the body count is the deciding factor in whether or not they can be considered a terrorist. I think it's the attempt to instill terror that makes them so. Just because the Christian terrorist groups aren't as organized, effective, or prevalent as the muslims terrorists doesn't mean they aren't the same. So if you can group all of Islam in with the extremists than we can also group Christianity in with their extremists. Go back an re-read my last paragraph from that posting. I mentioned context and how important it was. Here let me repost it for you

Using the same logic Christianity is a violent religion because the Scott Roeders, Eric Rudolphs and Fred Phelps use the Bible to justify theirs. Can't you see the flaw in your logic? It's the PEOPLE that are violent and not the RELIGION. Why people would kill over something that can't be proven or disproven (God, Allah, whomever) is beyond me. I sometimes wonder if this world would be a better place without any religion. What would people then use to justify their bloody deeds?

An Australian buddy of mine emailed this to me today. Anyone who has spent any length of time in Australia knows there's a struggle with political correctness down there. While it is to be starting to become prevalent many just don't care. General Peter Cosgrove was Chief of the Australian Defense Forces from '02 to '05 until her retired. Here is a portion of an Australian Broadcasting Corporation radio interview between a female broadcaster and General Cosgrove who was about to sponsor a Boy Scout Troop visiting his military Headquarters. FEMALE INTERVIEWER: So, General Cosgrove, what things are you going to teach these young boys when they visit your base? GENERAL COSGROVE: We're going to teach them climbing, canoeing, archery and shooting. FEMALE INTERVIEWER: Shooting! That's a bit irresponsible, isn't it? GENERAL COSGROVE: I don't see why, they'll be properly supervised on the rifle range. FEMALE INTERVIEWER: Don't you admit that this is a terribly dangerous activity to be teaching children? GENERAL COSGROVE: I don't see how. We will be teaching them proper rifle discipline before they even touch a firearm. FEMALE INTERVIEWER: But you're equipping them to become violent killers. GENERAL COSGROVE: Well, Ma'am, you're equipped to be a prostitute, but you're not one... are you? The radio cast went silent for 46 seconds and when it returned, the interview was over.

Mac: How's your shooting, Thorny? Ramathorne: Good. I've been dead on all morning. [He holds up a target with a tight group in the chest. Mac points to a stray bullet hole.] Ramathorne: Who, that little guy? I wouldn't worry about that little guy.

I never said they were equally violent. My point was you can't throw a blanket statement out that X religion is violent, whether it's Islam, Christianity, Judaism, or worshiping the Flying Spaghetti Monster. If the vast majority of the 1.5 billion Muslims in this world were violent then obviously you could make a blanket statement.. but the fact of the matter is the terrorists/extremists are a very small percentage of a rather large population. Just as the Rev Fred Phelps, Scott Roeders, Eric Rudolphs don't represent the Christians in the world, terrorist Muslims don't represent the Muslim community as a whole. I will concede that the majority of terrorist acts being committed in the last two decades have been committed by Muslims, but again I think that has entirely everything to do with their culture and their extremist views of Islam and not the actual religion itself.

Bacon covered .223's

True, but McVeigh didn't use religion as an excuse for what he did. In fact in an interview with Time magazine he said that even though he was raised Catholic he lost touch with his religion while in the military. Kind of apples and oranges when it comes to this topic.

Can't argue the topic so attack the debater. If people can throw a blanket statement that Islam is a violent religion, then others can throw a blanket statement saying the same for Christianity. Are the idiots we're fighting muslim... yes. Do they use Islam to justify their deeds... yes. Do the organizations I listed above use Christianity to justify their deeds... yes. There's roughly 1.5 billion muslims in the world. If Islam is, as Brabus would have us believe, a violent religion then it would stand to reason that there would be 1.5 billion muslim terrorists in the world. No? You mean it's probably only a small percentage of muslims are terrorists? But how can that be? Maybe it has something more to do with the culture in the middle east rather than the actual religion. That being said I personally believe this individual was troubled and in his twisted mind used his religion to justify a personal jihad. Just as Eric Rudoplh and Scott Roeder did. The difference here being there were plenty of clues that Hasan was cracking and turning extremist, and people overlooked them for fear of being accused of profiling.

Scott Roeder Eric Rudolph James Kopp Westboro Baptist Church The Concerned Christians The Lambs of Christ The Army of God The Lord's Resistance Army Russian National Unity National Liberation Front of Tripura Sons of Freedom These groups/individuals got started somehow. Someone instilled their beliefs in them. I don't think it was a muslim imam.

So I guess we can say that Christianity is also a violent religion. Deuteronomy 13:6-16 "If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery." Luke 19:27 "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." Isaiah 13:15-18 "Whoever is found will be thrust through, and whoever is caught will fall by the sword. Their infants will be dashed in pieces before their eyes; their houses will be plundered and their wives ravished." There's about 1000 other passages in the bible describing acts of violence, mutilation, infanticide, torture, and murder. Context is important, of course, and many of these seeming cruelties disappear when read as such. However, this would not stop a Christian terrorist from interpreting the Bible in a manner necessary to concoct a religious justification for unspeakable horrors, as Pope Urban II did, for example, when he preached the First Crusade in 1095 or as many American preachers did when they used Leviticus to defend slavery. Political and religious extremists have abused Islamic, Jewish, or Christian scriptures continuously throughout history.

I think you're misconstruing what I'm saying. I'm not advocating the proliferation of RBs at all... and I don't believe the IG inspectors rate wings on their RB wear. What I'm saying is the IG inspectors cannot be everywhere at once, and if they see some groups jacking around with their M16s (horseplaying, etc), or they see some people aren't wearing/carrying the appropriate PPE for the given MOPP, or they see PAR teams out sweeping during the attack rather than during the limited release, or general disorganization in the zone transition/base buildup/etc. Something they see from a distance and they aren't able to get to that area then they now have a system that identifies what wing those individuals are with at, a quick glance, without having to stop whatever they are doing and chase down those individuals to find out their home wing. Lord knows when we went through our ORI last year I was grateful that one of the other two wings with us were graded separately and there was something in place to let the inspectors know they weren't our people. I'm not gonna call out the wing, but man they were terrible. You can also trust that I bitched the whole week about having to wear that gay ass belt as well. Wing leadership wasn't happy when I showed up for my ADVON chalk wearing four of 'em because "I wanted to be extra safe".

That's actually pretty standard and there's a good reason behind the seperate colors. I know that during the ORI they press the "one team" concept, but you also have to remember that each wing is getting it's own grade. You'd hate for some doucebag unit from another base to royally fuck up your wings grade. The seperate colored belts help the inspectors know which wing has its shit together and which wing doesn't.

CNN's reporting more than one shooter suspected. Two other individuals arrested as suspects.