viper154

I’m not 100%, wasn’t an OTS grad. Fairly sure you incur a 4 year commitment with your commission regardless of source, otherwise it would be pretty easy for OTS grads to say F it, I’m out and just quit if they decide they don’t like their job/tech school. AF all about getting their pound of flesh, they ain’t going waste time/money sending people to OTS to have them quit a couple months later. It’s fairly common to not get a scholarship through ROTC, I didn’t, although I went through in the height of the sequester years, so maybe that’s changed.

If you get kicked out for getting in trouble you probably going to get kicked out of the military. A lot goes on behind the scenes if you fail out or DOR. One of the things that can make a difference is recommendations from your flight/cc, squadron cc, that get funneled up to the GP/CC and Wing CC. I’ve seen good dudes and dudettes that couldn’t quite figure out certain things get sent to CSO or RPA school, some that competed to go on to things like Special Tactics, OSI, and other jobs requiring interviews and try outs. They all wanted it and had CC recommendations to try to do those things. Vast majority looking for more “normal” AFCS really come down to needs of the Air Force. Some folks got what they wanted, some were scanning IDs at the gate. I believe OTS comes with a 4 year commitment. Realistic timeline, by the time you get to Pilot training, potentially wash out, all the paperwork to process, get RIPs and orders for another assignment, you are probably going to be coming up on that 4 year commitment.

To be clear, T-38 studs can still faip to a T-6 and then get a fighter. At least as of a few months ago.

That’s what we had with Doss at KPUB and the IFS program from late 2000s until 2017 ish. Program remained but transitioned from a screening to a training program. Studs that had a PPL were exempt. It was an introduction to UPT, BF/Ops limits, standup, similar syllabus structure, the GTIMS program, etc. Handful of green suit cadre and a lot of contract IPs, most did not have a mil back ground but training/teaching was standardized. It sucked going through as a stud, but later in life as a UPT IP having classes that had some of the studs go through that program seemed to have helped the transition to the T-6 flight line. Dual qual IP. Just no. Airspace around UPT is way to congested, last thing they need is a fleet of slow bug smashers mixed in with T-6s (with clueless studs) and T-38s. Also, you would significantly need more manning, I believe most T-6 squadrons are manned around 100% or so, having recently left, we were still very busy and stretched thin. Last thing I would have wanted was another airplane to keep up currencies, GK, and another syllabus on top of the 3 (just in the T-6) we currently had.

It was SUPT until 5-6 ish years ago. I don’t know when Doss started but you did that before UPT if you didn’t have a PPL. That was referred to as IFS, and 2018/19? it changed from IFS (initial flight screening) to IFT (Initial Flight Training) from what I told it was the same but changed from a screening program to a “training” program. 2018/19 is when the SUPT most of us know started its change to the disaster we have now. I’m not super smart on the timeline, but I believe UPT next was a small and short program at Randolf/Austin, T-6 only, straight to a FTU. I think it only produced 20-40 grads. 2021 ish started the 2.0/2.5 and several other syllabus re writes. 22-24 The T-1 started sunsetting, and heavy folks started doing T-1 sim only programs. 2024 the T-1 sim only program sunset. They were not the regular T-1 sims, and while I’ve never been in one, from what I was told tbeh sucked. 2025 -IPT/FUPT. IPT is the training program at civilian schools to get studs a PPL/Inst/multi rating. The “legacy” syllabus being referred to was similar to the 2.0/2.5 but had changes in when checkrides and how the mission phase was executed. (Honestly it might be the 2.5 syllabus, I can’t remember which was which, I started ram dumping that info when I left AD) it’s 20 ish more hours in the T-6 than FUPT. I believe the “legacy” syllabus is still being executed at several UPT bases. To sum that up. legacy = Doss IFT (or PPL) + trans/nav-inst/form/mission in the T-6. FUPT = civilian school, FAA grading standards, time building CFI instructors, FAA checkride PPL/inst Multi, and then 50 hours in the T-6 with no real dedicated nav/inst rides. That being said the “legacy” being referred to is totally different than what most of us went though, and is really only a year or so old.

At some point in the late teens IFS renamed to IFT, becoming more of a training program and less of a wash program. Some point around 2018 the bobs started experimenting, UPT Next, UPT 2.0 UPT 2.5. I’ve lost count. I did a short stint at UPT the last few years before getting out. I believe we had 4 different syllabi (T-6) in a 2 year time period. Bobs are flailing. it’s the same classic Air Force leadership bs. I was in the room when the question was asked about FTU/ops units having capacity to absorb 1500 students a year, and if this really saving any time/money as these studs are going to need more training at the FTUs/ops units. The response, and this is as direct of quote as I can remember “that’s not my problem” And whoever brought up the bobs not wanting to see data that shows the problem, it’s 100% correct. When the issues were brought up with the SGTO class the answer was to try and blame the IPs for trying to sabotage the program.

Your error is the reference to “legacy”. He referring the syllabus before IPT was thing. In that syllabus they got 70? Ish T-6 hours and then straight to the FTU if they didn’t get 38s. I flew with many of the initial IPT studs at CBM, the program is trash.

It will cover all the CTP if you use an approved school, such as Delta. For the the practical you have to submit a certificate reimbursement, only covered $2500. Don’t remember off the top of my head how many months. Hotels for Sanders are about 15-20 min drive, but right near all the food. Accommodations on site are single wide trailers, they have kitchens with all the basics for cooking. I went in the winter, I was happy I stayed on site, we had some weather roll in and sorties kept getting delayed/pushed for a couple days, but the schedule changes were last minute so it was nice being right be there. (Was no fault of the school, cold temps/LL icing, but each day was forecast to clear up as the day went on, so they were leaning forward trying to get people done) Being in the trailers with some of the other folks I got some good gouge that was passed to them I wouldn’t have otherwise gotten. Trailers have WiFi but no TVs. Couple guys stayed in hotels in my group, they seemed equally as pleased being close to food/walmart and having a gym. Pricing was about the same.

Sanders 6 months ago for the practical, recommend. They were booking up pretty far out, I would recommend getting on the books sooner rather than later. Did the CTP on my own about year and half ago at Delta, it was a good experience, did the test on base. You can book a package deal through Sanders to knock it all out at once. FAA test while not hard, has a lot of questions, get a study software and set aside a bunch of time.

If you are here illegally and are being deported but not charged, what due process is required? If you land somewhere and don’t have the correct visa you (hopefully) aren’t arrested and don’t get a trial. You get denied entry to the country and told to fly your plane back to where you came from. Same principle applies. Want to send em to prison, ya you need a trial. Send them back to where to they came from? Seeeya. This ain’t that hard.

Well yes, the concern wasn’t that the pilots would have trouble with some training. It was that there was no plan, except to stick them in a shiny new multi million dollar 16,000lb turbo prop tail wheel with all the toys instead of spending a couple extra bucks to send them to get a couple hours in a light civ tail wheel to get the basics. Hopefully that’s changed, I’ve been out of the loop for awhile.

Before I left AFSOC there was some concern about the tricycle to tail wheel training for pilots. There was also an aggressive timeline to get initial cadre and schoolhouse start up. If I were to guess, they are starting out with a training model like the PC-12/U-28. Get a couple birds that aren’t FMC with sensors/toys to get initial cadre seat time. Will allow 11-2 series, 3-3, and syllabus development for IQ/Inst checkrides. If desired once software is working properly and integrated they can plug and play all the toys in or keep these initial birds slick as trainers. U-28 schoolhouse you never touched a U-28 until you had a IQ/Inst checkride in a PC-12.

IPT is currently pass/fail from what I’m tracking, no idea how it’s graded out side of the FAA checkrides, or if you get silly award for being “at the top” but no part is counted towards mass, as UPT IPs have no access or insights to their performance before starting UPT. The mass is purely based off T-6 performance. For the moment the program is to get kids more time in a plane since the T-1 is dead and the sim only T-1 program was garbage. Having a civilian rating means absolutely nothing for the moment, it’s not unheard of for ATP rated regional folks getting guard/reserve slots, they go through the same military training as everyone else. (There was a exception for a bit that allowed multi/inst rated folks to go straight to the T-1, I would expect that exception to die as the T-1 fades away) T-6 is about halfway through its service life, it ain’t dead, some issues with contracting/procuring parts, said issues seem to have been/are being addressed. Last I heard the long term future for T-6/or a successor was undecided, reading between the lines I think the goal is IPT straight to a T-7 for everyone. I wouldn’t put money on anything at this point given all the thrash with syllabi the last couple years, but for anyone looking to be an AF pilot and start training in the next 5-10 years, I would expect some seat time in a T-6.

Thanks! I ended up sending AFPC an email after I posted, final approval the next day. Squeaky wheel gets the grease!

For now they are not in IPT. It’s a pass/fail just like IFS/IFT was. Except they take FAA checkrides with a DPE to get their ratings. Once at the UPT base flying the T-6 it’s similar to how’s it’s always been, except the mass will not only affect your track, but also your MWS/location if not going 38s.