pilot

Hey bro, here’s a bunch of words...may be applicable may not. When you say you are an IST, are you in the process of doing an IST or are you just an army guy applying to air guard/reserve units (or worse, active duty)? Might be semantics, but all of the former army guys who have gone air guard/reserve, at least the ones I know, have all had to “get out” and get back in...in other words the IST process was not applicable. We applied, got hired, coordinated getting out of the army (if not out already), went thru the admin hurdles before getting gained, then swore in and got gained by the ANG/AFR. I had a break in service so I couldn’t do an IST. But my bro’s who tried to go the IST route couldn’t, had to work with army HRC and their gaining unit/AFRC to line up an ETS date with a gain date the following day to avoid a break in service. It isn’t a clean IST so to speak, where one day you’re army then magically the next you’re AF. It can play out that way if the sep/gain date are back to back, but that takes some luck and coordination. I’ve heard of AD to AD ISTs but don’t know any personally. Might be semantics, but iirc an IST has different rules/processes than a regular off the street AFR/ANG accession, which is probably the route you’d come in. Not sure where you are in the process but thought it was at least worth mentioning FYSA. Also, other than former army dudes here, I don’t think anyone knows what RLO or post command means. I had heard that if you don’t go to UPT, in other words if you stay helo only in the ANG/AFR coming from the army, you didn’t need to take the afoqt. But I have a bro, same boat you are in, got hired by an ANG helo unit, and he had to take the afoqt (after he had already been “hired”) as an administrative requirement. This makes it seem that passing the min AFOQT scores is required, but I’m just making an assumption...just doesn’t make sense they’d make an army O3 H60 Pilot take an AFOQT after already being hired if there was no minimum score required, especially since he wasn’t going to UPT. But who knows. I just throw that out as a datapoint. I have never heard of rated USN/USMC guys going to the ANG/AFR having to take the AFOQT (caveat: I’ve never asked), which seems like a similar situation to the army helo-to-af helo scenario I mentioned. I’ve read all applicable AFIs (I think) and it looks like they are written (with regards to the AFOQT) to address all normal sources of commissioning, but not written to address direct hires/prior officers, and certainly not prior rated officers. I do know that at several points in the application process and accession process (AFRC), I had to send my afoqt/pcsm scores to my hiring unit and to my recruiter. My recruiter asked for them several times (guess he forgot I sent them, over, and over), indicating they are in fact used and looked at during the accessions process, not just in the application process. With all that said, if you don’t meet the bare mins on the AFOQT, it may affect your hireability. I know some people from my FC1 group (all guard/res) who had been hired with very low scores on some sections (teens/20s), but whose pilot/nav scores were ok. I think units are more concerned with the person, not test scores. But having at least the minimum scores is probably required, if not by AFI by anyone doing hiring for a unit. So hopefully your next go round will have better results. Wish I could help with afoqt/quant specifics, but I’m not the right guy to help with that. Good luck. Hope it works out.

Queeped out and noticed the 13July2018 AFGM2018-02 for AFI36-2903 6.4.3.2 has a change that says: “On 1 June 2020, Coyote Brown boots will be worn with the OCP and the flight duty uniform.” The updated 28 September 2018 AFGM2018-03 6.4.3.2 part removes the “and flight duty uniform” from the add. Guess it’ll probably change again if this coyote boot/brown patch rumor is true, but it seems the AFGM/AFI change was in the opposite direction to the latest rumor.

Which is why I said “So long as it wasn’t too saturated with Luke, TUS, and DM traffic.” I don’t request or use airspace in the area. Just said on paper it looks like there is a lot of airspace out there to use. Apparently not enough.

When I used to fly GA I was an active mil pilot, so i was vaguely familiar with MOAs. I was always on FF and didn’t go thru active moa’s. I’m not talking about that. I’m talking about the GA and commercial traffic at KIWA, which wouldn’t be much of an issue if a bunch of T6/38/Xs showed up. The PHX area is saturated with GA flight schools, including many weak english speakers. But they tend to hang out at the GA airports and some of the practice areas, not MOAs and probably not KIWA if it became a UPT base. So long as this hypothetical Willy base had easy access to the MOAs east and south, I don’t see much conflict with commercial/GA. So long as it wasn’t too saturated with Luke, TUS, and DM traffic (and anyone else in the area), seems like it’s as adequate airspace as any, with 99.69% of days flyable.

There’s a lot of airspace just east/south of KIWA. They’d just have to share it with the TUS guys and/or whoever else uses it. And the mix of light commercial and GA traffic isn’t much to contend with. I’ve never flown mil in this airspace so maybe there are more conflicts than I’m aware of, but from flying commercial and GA in the area, I don’t see why it wouldn’t work. Looks like it’s more airspace with fewer users than some other areas.

Willy.

He was a real good dude. Dammit. 🍺

You sound very angry towards people In bags or who want bags. To address some of your salty points, I don’t need it to validate myself in life, but thanks for your unsolicited concern. I got plenty of things besides a piece of green clothing for that. I just prefer it for its functionality, comfort, and appearance compared to the alternative. I started in a bag in the army, then A2CUs (BDU version, ACU version, and OCP version before I got out a few years ago). OCPs worked well with all our army crap. Still preferred the bag though. But as an Air Force guy now, I don’t care about army kit, or army policies, or army anything, and most of my Air Force bro’s don’t either. Maybe the helo guys do but I haven’t talked to many of them. I have no use for a 2 piece now. Fortunately I don’t see bags going away from the ejection seat community so this doesn’t really affect me. But you can keep your 2 piece since it suits your retarded army base policies and it’s easier for you to take a shit and go to the field and play army and all that fun stuff. But all my army bro’s would love to go back to a bag. And no, your point saying the only ones who want a 1 piece are guys who haven’t worn both is patently false. I, and all the dudes I went through army flight school with in bags, much prefer that to a 2 piece for everyday wear. If OCP A2CUs work for AMC or helo bro’s here, cool...whatever makes the mission happen and makes life easier for people. OCPs as a non flyer duty uniform look 69x better than ABUs. I welcome that change and don’t care about looking like the army in that regard. As stated, there’s a reason the Air Force left the army, and a reason many army guys still leave (try to leave) the army for the air guard/res. Of all the dudes who have hit me up on here asking with transition help, I’d say half have mentioned the thought of wearing a bag again as a positive thing, and wish the army would go back to that. The view on flight suits by the army, both in their wear and associated rules, some of which you mentioned, is a microcosm of the shit culture you guys have to deal with. Glad I’m out. Enjoy. ✌

Lawman, you realize you are speaking army to a bunch of Air Force guys, right? I don’t think the majority of this board understands much of what you just said, nor do they care about asinine army policies that aren’t applicable to 99.969% of the readers of this forum. This OCP conversation is mostly about the AF’s new OCP policies, and the discussion is mostly from an AF pilots perspective. Army policies are mostly irrelevant here.

68/69 army pilots I surveyed would rather have a bag. The only ones who don’t want a bag are the army dorks who like doing grunt things and looking like ground pounders. The logistics of taking a shit are secondary to looking like a pilot and the other comforts/convenience a bag provides.

Scores look good. Curious....Why active and not guard or reserve? I’d go fly and turn that goose egg into 20 hours at least, solo, preferably get a PPL. That will increase your PCSM, your knowledge base, and give you an idea of what you’re getting into. Good luck

Take a flight lesson at the local airport, take the AFOQT/TBAS, rush the unit, keep flying and try to get a PPL, keep rushing every drill weekend and get to know them. Enlisting could slow your UPT path down significantly. Nothing wrong with enlisting if that’s what you want to do, but if you want to fly them instead of fixing them, then I’d focus on that. Enlisting will likely add time to that path.

Wish I had some info and sorry to hear. But I can say that airline life is great, and they are hiring. Not sure if rhabdo would prevent a class 1...I’d imagine not. Are you getting medically retired?

The army doesn’t have any restrictions on wearing OCPs for leisure stops. Unless it’s a leisure stop at the bar. “Restrictions on wear. (1) Soldiers may not wear the combat uniform for commercial travel unless authorized IAW paragraph 3–7b through c, above. (2) Personnel may not wear the combat uniform in off-post establishments that primarily sell alcohol. If the off-post establishment sells alcohol and food, Soldiers may not wear the combat uniform if their activities in the establishment center on the drinking of alcohol.”

That’s not exactly true. By definition flight time for the FAA “commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing.” However, most civilians in small pistons log what the Hobbs meter says, and Hobbs meters are triggered in various ways, the most common of which is based on oil pressure or the master switch on. Airline pilots typically log block out to block in (based on certain criteria, generally brake release after the door is shut and the last brake set prior to the door opening). Technically speaking, until a motor’s fired up and the airplane is moving, the flight time clock isn’t supposed to be started in FAA logging. I don’t think anyone cares about that technicality, but for people converting their mil time to civ time it’s good to at least know the correct way. Better, just use whatever conversion factor the particular airline you’re applying to says to use.

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/interpretations/data/interps/2009/herman - (2009) legal interpretation.pdf You don’t need to have the complex or high performance endorsement to log PIC time for an aircraft in which you are rated (cat/class/type if applicable) as seen in this FAA legal interpretation...so no, not worth it for the reason of getting to log some extra PIC at UPT. But as stated, no one will count UPT stud time as PIC for airlines anyway. If you want, in your personal logbook, if you ever want a flying career outside the military, make an “FAA PIC” column (sole manipulator or whatever, applicable towards FAA ratings or insurance or whatever FAA PIC is good for) and a “signed for the jet” column of PIC (for airline apps). That said, for mil logging, I keep it in a separate logbook, with a single line entry for each mil acft flown in my civ logbook for airline interviews, and I brought a mil print out with my military flying summary to corroborate my single line entries.

Mines on Dropbox and google drive. I “save as” a new file every month or so and throw old copies into a logbook archive just in case I mess something up, I have old ones to go back to. I use excel on my iPhone/work iPad to enter flights and it saves it via Dropbox. I’m too cheap to buy a 365 subscription. $10 home use version from my employer and dbox/goog is all I can afford.

Mine's sent to whomever wanted one.

PM an email address and I’ll send mine. Fair warning, you probably need some working excel knowledge to use it. I’ve sent my sanitized shell to people and they’ve figured it out and it’s worked for them. But if you are having issues with formatting or formulas or something isn’t working properly I’ll fix it to your liking if you’re unable.

I like excel. Customizable, stored on the cloud, and I’m not beholden to any apps or formats or subscriptions. Mine has been tweaked for years to accommodate my army flying, GA flying, airline flying, and now AF flying. Took some nerding out, but it’s worked for me since.

What kind of sprinkles are we talking about? Hope it’s this kind.

No idea about whether 5 more points on a PCSM and 23 more hours is worth $2500. That’s a personal choice. I also can’t say whether 77 (or 82) is competitive, especially with your age. Most guys I know hired by fighter units had higher PCSMs than those. Your best bet is to put applications together and rush as many units as possible, seeking feedback and trying to accurately gauge where you rack and stack. Time is not on your side. And fwiw, I know a marine infantry guy who was up against the age/TFCSD clock, wanted fighters, but got no love for his age/rank, got hired by a guard herc unit, did well in UPT, ended up getting a fighter slot bc someone else washed out, and ended up being able to choose his unit amongst all the F16 units out there, as the one that ended up sponsoring him was a training unit. So there’s other random stuff like that out there. Doesn’t happen often like that, but luck, timing, skill, aptitude, attitude etc. can lead you down various paths....emphasis on luck and timing to be sure. Good luck.

There’s also a pilot/physician program out there, and other unique opportunities, like astronaut, among others. Take whatever path you can to get in, then take opportunities to go where you can with whatever opportunities present themselves with the qualifications you have. In my small circle I have a good friend about to go to space who used to fly attack helicopters, know someone who flew helicopters in the army, then flew fighters and at some point went to med school and was a flying physician. I know a non prior service lawyer older than you hired to fly fighters in the reserves. I’ve tried to become a fighter pilot since I was 18, finally got hired by a fighter unit 16 years later after an interesting, circuitous path. Since age is a factor, you can’t be picky with what you fly or where you fly it. But you can move around later. Getting in is the biggest hurdle. Edit: also, no matter what unit you go to or what you fly (assuming you get hired), you will be taking out the trash when you get back from training. Age/rank/previous other experience doesn’t matter if you’re the FNG. I was taking out the trash when I was rushing and expect to be doing the same when I get back from training, and this isn’t my first military flying career. It’s not a disrespect thing. It’s just what you do as the FNG. Somebody’s gotta clean the bar and take the trash out.

Can’t tell if serious. You can move state to state. And you can be a GO in the guard/Res. And you can fly different airframes. You sound like you should be an AD test pilot. Also, active duty dudes don’t generally hop between airframes that often.

All pilot slots in the ANG/AFR are O4 positions so being an O4 doesn’t matter...your rank will match your billet. BUT, getting hired as an O1-O3 is likely easier than if you were an O4, depending on what you are trying to do. If you don’t have to go to UPT, being an O4 trying to get hired may not be a big deal. Or if you’re already hired, it probably doesn’t matter either. But rushing units (especiallly fighter, but any) hoping to send you to UPT as a promotable O3 or O4? I’d be shocked if you made it work. There is a guy at ENJJPT who is about to pin Maj, but I believe he was a WSO. I got out as an O3 (completely out of the IRR and everything) to stop my clock as I was still rushing units and didn’t want any more TIG/TIS than I had to. I was right on the cusp of O4 and I knew fighter units wouldn’t look at an army helo O4. Being a senior O3 was a tough enough sell. After I got hired and I got back in, my appointment order has me as an O3 in an O4 position grade with my (massive) break-in-service adjusted TFCSD and DOR. Hope that helps.