xcraftllc

Congratulations man!

The 115th FW has also posted a board. Be advised, although it says that the applications will be accepted until October 18th on their website, they will only be accepting until the 26th of June. Therefore I will not be able to participate, good luck to those who do. From the Wisconsin Recruiter: "We will be excepting UPT applications until 26 June...We are waiting for them to update the new date." Also, New Jersey is as well but says that all dates are TBD. I guess the sequester is really scrambling the timelines for guard units.

Just wanted to update this based on what I've found out: Due the budget constraints, ANG and reserve units are having a hard time being able to tell exactly when they'll be able to put selected applicants through UPT. For example, the unit I've been working with only knows that their UPT class will be "some time in FY16," even though the board will be conducted at the end of this year. Although this will in my case potentially put it past my 30th birthday, I spoke about it with the Group Commander and he still highly encourages me to apply. I'm not sure how this relates exactly to Active Duty, but from what I last heard, they are able to shuffle age-critical personnel around as needed to get them through in time, I'm assuming based on what the Commander told me that the ANG can work a similar deal. There are of course always Waivers and ETPs which can be used for such minor deviations in such adverse circumstances. Anyway I've also heard of this happening to some other units so I just thought I'd throw it out there to give a heads up.

Congratulations man, I'll take you up on that offer here in a bit!

I'm not sure if this has already been taken into consideration at this point, but the best place to start is the Air Force Almanac, and go from there with up-dated changes like the 122nd switching from A-10s to F-16s and such: https://www.airforcemag.com/almanacs/Pages/default.aspx I suppose a more functional version of what the original poster was going for would be to have the link to the current almanac posted, and then have the rest of the threads post changes which have occurred since along with some planned changes. For example: Luke and Hill are now acquiring F-35s and all of the RC-26Bs are being fazed out of the ANG.

I hear you, I'll keep working the avenues that I'm on already for now. I'm in a pretty good place at the moment to make something like this happen with some of the units I've been focusing on, but it's interesting to know that those options exist. Just trying to make sure that I'm casting a big enough net.

Cool, I'll just keep my eyes on it and give them a call if I don't see anything.

I assume CAF is Conventional Air Force? Interesting, I bet that actually works out nice since you probably get a bit more flight time in those first three years and you'd be on AD pay. I bet positions like that are a bit more rare considering that the unit has to wait quite a bit longer to get some return on their investment.

Interesting, thanks man. I would have otherwise not thought it was possible. I suppose it's sort of unit-dependent though, and one would have to ask.

Cool, do you know if they're still accepting applications and what that deadline might be? I see on the ANG recruiting website that they have a position available, but no info on the board. On the 142nd website, there are listings for jobs, but none for the pilot position: https://www.142fw.ang.af.mil/resources/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=11866

Are you referring to the 173rd FW and/or 142nd FW? Also did they mention if that means that they are pushing the deadline for application submission back as well?

Searched around for while and couldn't find a straight answer. I have always assumed than any ANG or AFres unit that held the mission of Aggressor or Training would not hold any UPT boards. That is to say; they would not take on a new guy, and instead look mostly for pilots currently rated and experienced in the unit's air-frame, possibly even only instructor rated pilots. Is this true? There are a lot of units like that and I wanted to know if I should consider these viable candidates to apply for or not. For example, the 149th FW is a Texas ANG unit that flies F-16s but has the mission of training and qualifying F-16 Pilots.

Good call man, that's what it was. Glad to hear it was cancelled. I was really disappointed to hear that they cancelled the FWQC, but with the elimination of ASBC and IFS (for licensed pilots), the timeline is much more manageable. I can understand how cutting courses like ASBC and IFS in order to save time and money makes sense, but getting rid of the FWQC to save money doesn't. It would seem to me that having a rated aviator be on active orders for a shorter period of time and fly less hours in his/her qualification would only save the Air Force time and money. One of the F-16 pilots I've been working with on this actually used it back in 2010. If it was still there myself, the prospective unit, and the Air Force would have a much easier time making this happen.

I was told that the unit I'm talking to did this last time. Not sure if it's standard or what, just threw it in there based on what I heard. I'm trying to be a bit conservative on the timelines because I know how things can drag out in the military.

LOL yeah, I know what you mean. True anywhere you go I suppose, and yeah, they were already in flight school for a while and such man we just thought it was funny, no disrespect. I can definitely respect how different organizations have different methods of doing things so I'd like to think I would't ever end up being a pain like some of those guys. I guess that's some good advice in general for this thread: Take your experience with you and use it to your advantage but don't assume you already know everything. You'll still need to be a sponge and play the part of the FNG for a minute. Yep, one time all of the IPs thought it would be cool to line up in a big staggered formation and launch all together. It was about a 10 ship formation that all picked up off the runway at once and flew off for a minute before splitting off into their own areas!

LOL no, besides I'm SERE C qualified already. I talked to a friend of mine in the Air Force and he said there's no class in-between. I must have confused stories about the first week of UPT. That takes care of that. Looks like these days if you're SERE C, and already have a license there's not a huge hold up. I suppose the biggest things would be the Air Force physical and any kind of security clearance stuff. Month 1: Application submission. Month 2: Generally nothing Month 3: Board Convenes, packets are reviewed. Candidates are chosen for phone interviews. Month 4: Phone interviews are conducted and the remaining candidates are invited to a personal interview. Month 5: Interviews are conducted and primary/alternate are selected. Month 6-12: MEPS/Medical/Administrative processing etc. (maybe less for prior service?) Month 13/14: AMS (if available and faster, if it's faster to go through BOT, although the course is longer, then that will be used) Month 15/16: UPT (the academic portion first and then everything else).

Nope, I could totally be wrong but I remember someone mentioning some sort of basic officer course that covers the subject matter and mission of the aviation specific tacks and what's expected of you as an officer in that field. It has some kind of 4 letter acronym. I could have misinterpreted what someone was saying about UPT academics or something, or maybe in takes place after your qualified and before you go to your first unit. I'll ask a couple of the guys I know who fly for the AF.

That's a good point for this thread. I'm not interested in taking that route myself, but for people like me who are trying to broaden their career in the Air Force, they will have much more time (age-wise), and lot less training to go through. I'm sure the Air Force appreciates the input and experience from Army RW among their ranks. Speaking of AF RW, (this might be something a little more appropriate for the "Army vs AF Flying" thread); the best single example I can think of regarding quality-of-life differences, is the fact that the Air Force trains at Fort Rucker like we do, only they train in nice, clean, well maintained and modernized UH-1s (they do this before they go to Kirkland). They also have MUCH more freedom. I still vividly remember sitting on the bus ride to training, looking out the window, watching them drive their cars right up to their own hangar and walk out casually in their one-piece flight suits. Keep in mind this is their pre-aircraft qualification course and is meant to just introduce them to helicopters. That's why Cairns AAF is often jokingly referred to as Cairns AFB. Someone will have to fact-check me on this but I'm pretty sure the Coast Guard offers the same policy as the AF, where one only has to make the officer training age and then proceeds directly to aircraft qualification. (I know a Navy guy who did that). Yep, and as much as I would appreciate flying around in Colorado for a month, while getting full-time pay, it's a huge deal for me that it's exempt since I'm on a tight timeline. It probably also saves the guard unit some money.

Just wanted to throw this out there: If you're an Army Aviator and managed to get your civilian license, you will be exempt from IFS: "1.1 ... Pilot, RPA pilot, and CSO candidates with a private pilot certificate are exempt from IFS." https://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/aetc/publication/aetci36-2205v3/aetci36-2205v3.pdf

Also, I just wanted to throw this out there for people who are uncertain: As pointed out in the IFS thread, IFS is not required for people who have their license: "1.1 ... Pilot, RPA pilot, and CSO candidates with a private pilot certificate are exempt from IFS." https://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/aetc/publication/aetci36-2205v3/aetci36-2205v3.pdf

I was looking through this info, both on this thread and the dedicated baseops webpage, trying to get a good feel for the timeline and order of operations leading up to UPT and so-on. Perhaps one of the moderators wouldn't mind making a pinned one-page thread that kinda outlines the process to help clarify it for people who are new to it. Something like "Flight Training Timeline and Order of Events" perhaps. It might also make for a good quick reference to check yourself if you have a question about something. Or maybe some high speed guy could go totally nuts, be a hero and make a flow chart that accounts for different circumstances! Here's what I've gathered, along with some stuff I'm uncertain about and would like to have clarified. As an example, I'll use a guard unit with a prior-service candidate who has SERE C, a commercial instrument rating, class one physical, and a secret clearance (since that's what I'm pursuing): Month 1: Application submission. Month 2: Generally nothing Month 3: Board Convenes, packets are reviewed. Candidates are chosen for phone interviews. Month 4: Phone interviews are conducted and the remaining candidates are invited to a personal interview. Month 5: Interviews are conducted and primary/alternate are selected. Month 6-12: MEPS/Medical/Administrative processing etc. (maybe less for prior service?) Month 13/14: AMS (if available and faster, if it's faster to go through BOT, although the course is longer, then that will be used) Month 15: A course for pilot/nav/cso etc. tracks I think. Not UPT academics, something else. Is there such a thing, and does it have to be taken before UPT? Month 16: UPT (the academic portion first and then everything else). This is of particular concern for me since I will be turning 30 in February of 2016. The applications for the board I wish to compete in are due in September, with a board convening in November/December. If my timeline is correct, I should be able to be in UPT by the age of 30 without any ETPs. Again, I'm already SERE C qualified, have a commercial instrument license, class one physical, and 6 years in service.

Oh I here ya man, that will be especially true for me since I am pursuing guard and reserve units. Nevertheless I think the experience will be absolutely worth it. Hell, in the budget constrained environment we're living in now, everyone's probably only going to be making their minimums anyway, Warrant, O-grade, Army or Air Force. Anyway, to get back on topic, a current issue I'm wondering about right now is the flight physical. Does anyone know if an Army class 1 flight physical is valid in the Air Force? I know the process can take months with appointment availability and processing times.

Very good question Scoobs, I don't want to go off topic too much on this thread, but I guess I'll bite for this one post. I don't want to sound too cliche, but I think of joining the Air Force as broadening my career. I'm an aviation professional. I'm absolutely fascinated with combat aviation as I always have been, and although the Apache is a hell of a machine, the Army's focus is and always will be the ground force. I would also very much like to be an O-grade officer, but when you do that in the Army, you will fly significantly less. (For more on that topic, take a look at threads like Army Vs. Air Force Flying, etc.). This isn't my first day as an adult and I understand that there will be politics and organizational issues everywhere you go, but I have spent a good deal of my time in the Army working with the Air Force, and I can say my experience with their side of the house has been much more enjoyable. I understand the difference between personal and professional opinions, and much of this falls under the "personal" side. If a unit was asking me this question during a board, I would be sure to stick to the "professional" side. I'd say the main reason most people want to make the switch is that The Army is a huge, general-purpose ground force, and it's command focus is oriented toward that. This creates a huge lack of understanding on how to run an aviation organization. Sometimes you get really good aviation commanders like Gen. Cody who understand how to manage it, but most of the time you are under the command of a non-aviation commander. Sometimes that makes for minor safety issues, like having pilots participate in mandatory ruck runs (as if the health risk is worth the physical fitness), because the post commander said "all units will...etc.". Sometimes it's a major issue, like switching to a two piece "flight suit," which actually costs more than keeping the nomex pickle suit, and isn't really fire retardant. All because a Sergeant Major thought the pickle suit was a "Status Symbol" and no one who was making the polices knew better. From a strategic perspective, this issue manifests itself in different ways. For example, the Army will often fall behind the Air Force in some very important technologies, like how we use BFT instead of LINK16. Or our mission planning software, which is basically a modified version of an old software program that the Air Force developed a long time ago and has since moved beyond. Also, when the Air Force literally asks us to participate in some JAAT or CAS training, our command isn't very concerned or helpful at all and doesn't work with us much. We pretty much have to make it happen on our own time by squeezing it in when able. Such training is immensely important in our modern Joint-Tactics focused war strategy. I guess part of it is a pride thing between Army ground force commanders and the other branches. And yes, in my situation, the allure of a fighter jet is incredible. The power, performance, mission, everything. I sat in an F-16 cockpit while I was talking to some Viper guys about CAS training and sensor feeds, and that is my kind of office. Singe pilot, excellent view, plenty of firepower. I don't care if pulling Gs is a little uncomfortable and I have to stay in shape, sign me up! But anyway there you go, back to the topic I guess!

That's correct sir, but more than anything else what I really want to do here is make a useful thread that covers the subject in general. I got really frustrated digging through the countless bits of info out there and talking to recruiters that who don't know much about the subject. By all means if you have some tips on that please share them here. I'm not interested in rotary myself but I'm sure there are plenty of Army folks who would like to fly Pavehawks and might came across this thread on their journey. Speaking of which, a successful green-to-blue guy mentioned this document to me, it will come in quite handy for Army Aviators wishing to know more about how their qualifications transfer to the Air Force: https://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_a3_5/publication/afi11-402/afi11-402.pdf

Yeah that seems to be the problem with a lot of this stuff, the policies evolve a lot over time. I'm hoping that with a combination of the draw-down in the Army, and the Air Force's fighter pilot shortage, things will be favorable for Army Aviators looking to make the transition.