ol-IEWO

Such as tanker crews ignoring the rules and flying into high threat areas to refuel SAR aircraft.

Here is what I recall of the event. The navigator had just completed the navigation portion of the mission and we were in a timing triangle. The timing triangle allowed the Nav to make up or lose time. (SAC demanded that the aircraft be at every control point on time; seconds mattered.) We had a control point at FL 430 as the entry for a low level route (Kenora Express for any old SAC guys). The Aircraft Commander was out of his seat offloading some coffee at the urinal; once we entered the route neither pilot was expected to leave their seat. The aircraft was on autopilot, sequence of events: Chicago Center gave the copilot a frequency to contact Minneapolis Center, No response from Minneapolis; back to Chicago, Nav tells the copilot to expedite the turn, Copilot increases the rate of turn using autopilot, Still no response from Chicago, Back to Minneapolis, No response, Nav tells copilot to expedite the turn some more, Copilot increases the bank. Copilot goes to Guard Channel and requests either Chicago or Minneapolis for a frequency. (Pilot back in seat by now and strapping in) No response from either Center. About this time I felt a vibration begin that was similar to the tail guns firing; no Gunner in seat, Hmmm….something is wrong... That was the start of the stall. Nav says to copilot: you're past the heading, come back to ……. Pilot says: Nav we have a problem up here. I look over at Gunner's seat and now see Gunner fully strapped in with helmet visor down, hands on ejection handles. Radar Nav (bombardier) advises the pilots of loss of altitude. Pilot says: I know, and then he makes the first of several Maydays on Guard. Again no answer. Radar Nav starts counting off altitudes. (Being trained professional aviators, every word was said in a matter of fact manner, no panic, no screeching voices.) Pilot tells me to make a Mayday on a SAC monitored HF channel. No response to my Mayday. At about 28,000 feet, the Radar Nav says: Pilot, I think we should start thinking about getting out. (Note that the word eject was not said) Pilot says: I understand, standby. Radar Nav still calling off altitudes. That was good because the Gunner and I did not have an altimeter. After the 18,000 foot call by the Radar Nav, the pilots recovered the aircraft. Now Center was talking to us and gave us clearance to altitude for RTB. Only after we recovered and after I made a report to SAC on HF did some one respond saying they heard my Mayday. That's it as I remember it. Some place I have an explanation of why so much altitude was lost in the recovery. The aerodynamics of the B-52 were a major factor and not pilot technique or procedures.

In 1968 I was in a B-52H that stalled at FL430 and started flying again at 17,000, that was a 26,000 foot recovery. We did not bend the airframe but did pop a few sucker doors on one of the TF-33's. Due the cost of repair it was treated as an accident. I believe it was the only B-52 ever to be recovered from a stall. This was not caused by an overly aggressive pilot. There was a series of events that led up to an error resulting in the maximum bank angle being exceeded. This was long before the crash at Fairchild AFB.

"Inspiration springs from great traditions. Guard the traditions of your service, built in the foothills of the Rockies and in the air over Ploesti, 'MiG Alley', Red River Valley and a thousand other places." - President Ronald Reagan, in his commencement address to the 1986 graduation class at the Air Force Academy. And "etched" in stone at the AF Memorial. Oh well.....

Just got my Amvets magazine and there is an interview of Foglesong. It's about his membership in the US-Russia Joint Commission on POW/MIAs. He comes across as being a real professional compared to what was said about him in this thread. For those not Amvets members, Amvets Magazine starts on page 18

http.com//www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/08/09/gates-cut-major-military-command-norfolk-officials-say/ edit: sp

If it is simulated, why is an aircraft being used?

We had a saying: "If you don't know who is the best fighter pilot in the world, it sure as hell isn't you." (Extraordinary confidence in your ability.) Comment about ego Edit-added link.

Possibly a minor mid-air?

Picked up on another board: Air Force pilot ejects before jet crash Stars and Stripes Pacific edition, Saturday, February 27, 2010 OSAN AIR BASE, South Korea — An Air Force pilot escaped serious injury Thursday when he ejected before his F-16 fighter crashed while landing, authorities said. Base officials did not immediately identify the pilot, who was treated at the base hospital for minor cuts and released, said 1st Lt. Chris Hoyler, a spokesman for Osan's 51st Fighter Wing. There were no other injuries or property damage reported in the crash, which occurred around 12:40 p.m., said. The fighter, an F-16C, had nearly touched down when the pilot ejected, Hoyler said. The pilot, assigned to the wing's 36th Fighter Squadron, had just taken part in a routine training flight in which he and two other F-16s practiced mock attacks on ground targets, Hoyler said. The plane did not catch fire and remained structurally intact after the crash. "As far as its future flyability … that won't be decided until a thorough analysis is completed," Hoyler said. Hoyler said reasons why the pilot ejected and whether the day's rains and cloudy skies were a factor are currently under investigation. Pacific Air Forces headquarters in Hawaii will appoint a board to issue written findings on the crash.

This may be a candidate. It even has a pointy nose and armour plated tub. https://www.stavatti.com/MACHETE_HOME.html

No, bomber crews did not kill their own. I was in B-52H's for a few years back in the 60's, when nuclear deterrence was the mission. Generally, the only things that could get a person in trouble was "human reliability"; being solo in a "No Lone Zone," having a bad bomb during an ORI, doing an unsafe action, or a real, real bad attitude. Those could get you banished from SAC, transferred to a stateside non-SAC base (and it was no surprise when it happened) and bad rating on your annual review which all but killed any chance for a promotion. I have seen various other things screwed up with no repercussions. Some times they were very obviously ignored. Some things I was involved in and others I was along for the ride STS. One of the incidents that happened to the crew I was on (we had hard crews) was pilot error but because of the out come neither pilot was hung out to dry. We could have crashed but didn't and there was only minor damage to the aircraft. It became a lessons learned thing, changed some procedures and added a training item for pilots. As it relates to the situation with the missile crew: the wing I was in had a situation involving "code components." As I recall, three different crews were involved. At the end of the first crew's alert tour, they handed off the aircraft and code components to the second crew who at the end of their tour handed off to the third crew. An inventory was conducted at each hand off and they all made the same mistake. A member of the wing staff was the first person to become aware of the situation. An investigation determined what had transpired and that at all times the code components had been in a guarded restricted area; that the code components themselves had not been tampered with, no seals were broken, and that there was absolutely no compromise. Nobody was formally reprimanded. All crews were instructed in the proper procedure regarding control and handling of the code components. End of story, IIRC, everyone lived happily ever after. No, we did not stab each other in the back, nor did our commanders. At least not at the Wing I was in.

Roger that! I was in the 355th at Takhli and we had Wing CC, CV, DO and squadron CC's leading the tough missions. If you want to read a book about a leader putting his career on the line for one of the troops, read Col. Jack Broughton's "Going Downtown" if you can find a copy. He shares a piece of AF history with Gen. Billy Mitchell. The only times I experienced the type of commanders being discussed were when I was in non-flying commands and those commanders weren't even close to the clowns you're talking about. Is this prevalent throughout the AF or just AMC?

Very interesting, the Forum Editor deleted all the comments made regarding that topic. All that I read were very critical of the Shoe (Gunner7).

Great reading for insomnia. Thanks for the link, seriously.

Yes, it sure does depend on what you're flying. I flew one aircraft that if you lost one of the two engines, you aborted. Reason was we were so under powered, we didn't reach single engine flying speed until about 45 seconds after takeoff. We were non-center line thrust, one engine under each wing. The only abort I can recall in F-4's was when we forgot to reset the aircondition to take-off and the whole cockpit fogged. Other than that we took off, burned fuel while all the experts told us what not to do. We usually hooked the approach end cable on landing.

During an Open House at a now closed base in the mid-West, I was a 1st Lt. standing in front of a B-52: Elderly gentleman: Big airplane, son; how long is it? Me: About 160 feet, sir. Him: Yep, that's big, son. How wide is it? Me: The wingspan is 185 feet, sir. Him: How much does it weigh? Me: About a half a million pounds fully loaded, sir. Him: How much grain can she haul? Me: Depends on the type of grain and how it needs to be delivered.

It was a wood carving of two elephants in the pose. The one on top was labeled as the Wing CC, the other was labeled xxxth Wing. It was presented to him in remembrance of his always challenging us and prodding us to excel while our perception was somewhat different. The Wing was an outstanding Wing so it was a gag gift, not an insult. He kept it on his desk for the few days before he left.

That descent was good reason for the nav's, EWO and flight surgeon to eject. I'm curious if anyone tried to eject. I don't know what the minimums are today, but at one time when you got to 3,000 ft AGL under those circumstances, you ejected. Actually under spin or dive conditions, the directive was to eject no later than 18,000 ft AGL. Does any one know if the EWO/Gunner ever got an altimeter and heading indicator? I recommended that to an accident investigation board way back when.

My new hero This nineteen year old ex-cheerleader (now an Air Force Security Forces Sniper) was watching a road that led to a NATO military base when she observed a man digging by the road. She engaged the target (I.e., she shot him). Turned out he was a bomb maker for the Taliban and he was burying an IED that was to be detonated when a US patrol walked by 30 minutes later. It would have certainly killed and wounded several soldiers. The interesting fact of this story is the shot was measured at 725 yards. She shot him as he was bent over burying the bomb. The shot went through his butt and into the bomb which detonated; he was blown to pieces.

Flight scheduling is dynamic. It is affected by events over which you have no control and may as well be considered random. Once you get everything scheduled, a flight lead is DNIF for a head cold; the wx goes down and it's below the FNG's minimums; the tanker aborts for some unknown reason. As you move people around to cover these holes, you are affecting flights occurring later in the day. A thunderstorm over the base stops aircraft refueling so take-offs are delayed and a pilot in the flight can't make a sim in the afternoon. Tomorrow's schedule is affected by the events of yesterday and today. In my years of flying fighters, I never knew more than 30 hours in advance what I would be doing, generally it was about 13 to 24 hours. In most squadron's the schedule was approved and published by 16:30 for the next day. As Biaspoint said, pick a specific mission and pick it carefully. Good luck.

Looks like an embarrassed vulture to me.

I was at work in Dallas discussing a business deal with several people in Great Britain. They were in their lounge with the TV on and were about to turn it off when a breaking news story ran. They told me a plane had crashed into a building in NYC. Dumb me wrote it off as a small plane in fog being lost and hit one of the taller buildings. I went back to discussing the deal and they filled me in about what was happening while we were working the deal. When they told me a second plane hit, I sensed that something was amiss. About that time my co-workers began running around in a panic, yelling about an attack on the US. With all the noise, hearing the Brit's was difficult and we agreed to reschedule the call. They said that they understood. Then I turned on my radio and learned what really happened. I really felt stupid.

Never thought an AF directive would help me make money on eBay and get rid of all that old AF stuff in the closet.

No tits on the bar (seen at an ACC bar with Fighter Chicks)