Danny Noonin

You're right. That's not the real question. But the author put that on the table when he made the "danger" faced by RPA pilots at home in the US part of his argument and stated that RPA pilots were perhaps in more danger than those flying in theater. It was an emotional argument, poorly chosen to support his theory. It was--quite frankly--absurd. So much so that it damaged the credibility of the rest of his argument and caused much of his intended audience to not even be able to see past it. I agree with you here. I personally don't give a crap about medals. But I understand your (and his) point that we have asked these dudes to do a job that most don't want to do. Then we don't give them any credit for it despite their contributions to the overall effort.

Please tell me you're a chick

Sorry but I have to call you out on this one...You were able to practice sorts on XCs? Lots of 737s flying formation inside group criteria were there?

Thanks, but I understand the situation just fine and don't need anything 'splained to me. Here's the facts: 1) the demos were cancelled because ACC/A3 could not justify them when we have inadequate training lines in CAF units 2) I can see his point and I really think he's trying to do the right thing, but cutting demos then continuing to send statics and 2-ships to heritage flights doesn't pass the smell test. FWIW, the Navy cut back demos severely as well for the same reasons. 3) Cancelling the demos will not fix our training problem, but will add some training sorties back into the lineup. Enough to make a real difference? No. But in some sense, every sortie counts. 4) This has absolutely nothing to do with TIB. Those that equate the two are the ones that need the real world 'splained to them. 5) I think the demos should have stayed I'm not sure there is still any disagreement here.

Fuck, this shit again? If you ask strangers to take their personal time to give you advice, you take the good, the bad, and the ridiculous, and if you dont like it you keep your cake hole shut. You surrendered the right to complain when you went to the internet for help.

Come on now Cap. Why on earth would the ACC/A3--the director of operations for ACC--have a say in TIB? What does that have to do with ACC or ops? What lack of communication is that indicative of? Unless you are suggesting every spending decision is supposed to go before CSAF for adjudication so he can do a mass rack n' stack--in which case, look out because that's micro-managment that you don't want. Your VSP example is not even remotely relevant. The fact that the left hand didn't talk to the right in regards to personnel policy is not the same as a 2-star in a MAJCOM cutting something he owns while something he does not own survives the cuts. I get your frustration and I'm the sport bitching king when it comes to frivolous spending in the AF (don't get me started on bowling alleys, Dyson vaccuums and Bose speakers). But just because demos and TIB both require money doesn't make them at all related when it comes to this kind of thing. I wish TIB would go away. I wish the demos would stay. But they are separate animals controlled by separate entities.

Agreed. Makes no sense to shit-can the demo but continue to do the heritage. Oh, for fuck's sake. They logged RAP "on most X-C sorties"? You guys get lots of good tactical training in the mudhen on your X-C sorties these days without pods or even PTMs on board? Do your guys only go to air shows in the local area? I don't care if they logged and/or pencil whipped RAP on those sorties, but you cannot with a straight face argue that they got good tactical training enroute to most airshows. Just because they logged it, doesn't mean it was good or even adequate training. And, by the way, they only helped mask the problem (lack of training) by logging that crap.

completely agreed You're looking at this from the wrong perspective. Yes, the hours and fuel would be used up anyway. But they would be used on training. So, yeah, when those flying hours and jet fuel aren't used for training, the cost does apply. Otherwise, we could just cut those hours and save the money. As for recruiting, do we have a shortage of folks wanting to be pilots right now? Or to join the AF in general? Now that's not to say that there is a second or third order effect years down the road for the failure to ignite the flying fire in young kids. But who's to say that this demo thing is permanent? Believe it or not, I'm with you. I'm sad to see the demos go away. They're a big reason I wanted to join the AF and fly. But I've heard the reasoning straight from the ACC/A3's mouth and I can understand his perspective on this. He doesn't own TIB, so the argument that it was one or the other is naive. He doesn't have anything to do with those clowns. But he does own the demo teams. ACC is out of money and is cutting training. Cutting demos was something he could do to try and help the problem. It was a tough call to can the demos in favor of training--even if it doesn't gain a ton of extra training in the big scheme of things. I'm not a big fan of it, but I can definitely see where A3 was coming from.

Ok. The real cost is that for demos (F-15, F-16 for sure, not positive about A-10) they have to slick off the jets..no pylons, no tanks. That means a jet and a spare are out of the lineup and dedicated to airshows. For all of the demo teams, they generally practice at least once a week. They practice several times a week before the season starts. They send 2 jets to every show...most every weekend, all summer long. Not only is that a lot in flying hour cost, it has a training cost to it. There are fewer jets to fly for training. If you listen to ACC/A3--the guy who made the decision--he cut the teams because he could not justify using up all of those flying lines/hours for airshows when dudes were getting their training chopped to pathetic levels. Lost training--that's the cost.

That's not what he said. Travel and per diem is not the real cost.

Nicely done

Second

True dat. This was an enormous feat for MX. They must have worked their tails off to make that happen. Good on 'em. They should be basking in the glory of that mission.

The fact that you have to even ask means that you have failed as a man. Retracted based on claim of "sarcasm"

Are you shitting me? How young are you SNAP boy? There are very few movies that every man is obligated by law to be able to quote. This is one of them. Are you seriously telling me you can't even VID Billy Barou? Feel shame.

No, that was whining. Big time.

Well you aren't going to earn any respect by whining like a little bitch. By the way, some of us do know plenty about space. What's your point here? Do you know much about SEAD? Or CAS? Or OCA? Fact: I know a fuck of a lot more about your job than you know about mine. Why is it that space and cyber dudes always cry that no one understands the nitty gritty of what they do when 1) if you ask, they "can't tell you" anyway and 2) they don't truly know jack and/or shit about the nitty gritty of what anyone else does either.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say all the space dudes who have to go buy a bunch of new sets of ABUs.

You sure he's THE actual exec? Most 4-stars have an O-5 (lots are even O-6 select) as an exec. O-4s are generally the aide-de-camp or whipping boy deputy assistant exec.

Geek Forgiven. Nice recovery.

Just wear your g-suit and do a good L-1. 1.2G isn't as tough as it sounds.

Sand in your vagina?

Erroneous. PRF statements can be from OPRs, medals, or training reports. Just a hunch, but that could be why they're trying to beef up the training reports vs the generic ones that all you seasoned promotion veterans got.

Don't much care what you see the need for. I think most of the stuff dudes posted was crap. I can say that. You can either say "thank you" or nothing at all. If you can't follow this advice then I promise that being a pilot is not for you. Further rebuttals are not authorized.

Listen tough guy...if you come on here asking dudes to take their own personal time to give a perfect stranger (i.e. you) advice, then you should accept that advice along with any criticism, smart ass comments, direct spears, etc WITHOUT COMPLAINT. Now shut the fuck up and listen or take your business elsewhere.