nsplayr

Guys in my squadron have been working in this for years with no joy. Post something if you make any progress. The ABU 2-piece ones are better than nothing but still not what we wanted, especially since we bought the multicam ones and now they're sitting in storage.

The only thing I know about NBoKC is they won the contest for who could contact me the latest after I had already bought my home. inquired about financing in May 2009, bought in Aug 2009 with a local lender, but apparently Nov 2011 is still a great time to check up on how my search was going! I give you +5 points for persistence but -5 for common sense.

I think they summed it up pretty well. I've talked to numerous new copilots who had little to no opportunity to get in a vault while they were in UPT, and thus don't have the opportunity to learn about some airframes or missions. On the other hand, most new CSOs I've seen come through are a little more up to speed since they had a good chunk of forced vault time during nav school.

I hear what you're saying and depending on the circumstances/unit/personalities involved it may come to taking the dude's wings to prevent further antics and to set the tone. However, in general, I'm not a fan of the "zero mistake Air Force" we're living in today where, had someone gotten a DUI after our Christmas Party, the SQ/CC would have been fired, even though he's deployed and had literally nothing to do with the party whatsoever other than saying "sounds good, be safe." Anyways, the good-ole "it depends" answer I think is often the best one, you're a leader because you're supposed to have judgement so hard and fast rules that absolutely never change under any circumstances should be few and far between IMHO.

Did you read anything else I wrote in this entire thread? I think I came down pretty damn hard on the side of flight safety. Really CJ6A is the only guy that's defending any part of it. My only caveat to the whole argument over what do do after the fact was that it should be handled at the lowest level possible and I don't see taking someone's wings for a SLOJ when there was no actual mishap.

Interesting philosophical argument here...unless you have personally experienced a thing you should not comment on any aspect of it. Tosh said it best on Tebow, with a close second place to Urlacher.

He just rubs me the wrong way (sts) with his excessive religious talk and in-your-face wholesomeness. But it seems genuine and I'm sure he's a fine, upstanding young man who also happens to crush skulls on the football field. The MFer doesn't do anything but win so good on him for that and he has my respect in that regard, even if he does throw the ball like a 13 year old girl a lot of the time. Also, this. Which lead to... "Under the SeaBowing"

You are being flippant man, honest feedback. You admit later that rolling the airplane was a bad decision by whoever actually did it, and I'll take from that statement that you also think it should therefore not be done/you would not do it. There's no need to up and crucify people over the incident if nothing bad actually happened (outside of an ass chewing by the SQ/CC), but it's the attitude that is perhaps the problem the FCIF was poorly trying to address. From your posts here you seem to have the attitude that it's NBD to depart from standard flight profiles for non-mission-related reasons, and that's a bad atitude to have. If doing something related to flight safety is a bad idea then we should be actively stopping guys from thinking it's ok to do it. This is exactly where you prove the shoes wrong when they think, "Well if he can't tuck in his PT shirt or trim his mustache he must not follow other rules." That's a bullshit attitude and we all know it, but it's incidents like this rumored one that give them the ammunition to gay-up everywhere they possibly can. I'll admit I'm usually the guy with bushy sideburns and long hair and missing the reflective belt, but I'll be damned if I'm gonna allow anyone on my crew to do something stupid in Uncle Sam's airplane that puts people in unnecessary danger. Flight safety, to me, is one of those "show me" categories of things where dudes have to take it 100% seriously and not do stupid shit; it gives you cover to do less risky stupid shit like growing a nasty 'stache or getting falling-down drunk in the squadron bar and still receive a pass from the Boss and a high-five from your bros.

So are a bunch of other maneuvers, doesn't make it right. Is doing a barrel roll in your MC-12 going to better accomplished the manned ISR mission? How will the ground force benefit? Could you explain to your SQ/CC why you did it and how it related to the mission? If not you f*cked up, admit it like a man and take it as a learning point. Dude, blowing it out of proportion would be sending out an FCIF to the entire Air Force. However, don't prove them right by actually coming on here, talking about doing stupid sh*t in the jet, and then being either too stubborn or too dumb to admit that perhaps what happened was not warranted and represents exactly what the AF is trying to prevent in writing said memo on flight discipline.

Amen. Your kind is sorely needed/missed.

We already have these "bigger problems," that was the point of my previous post. It's the officers who have let this environment flourish and I'm not talking about line captains and passed-over majors. Or even squadron commanders for the most part...the rot happens at the top when senior managers empower E-9s and SMSgt Shirts to implement stupid ideas like having enlisted troops "ensuring discipline and compliance" among the whole force, including the officer corps. IMHBAO if senior managers have problems with compliance in their units, they should get out there themselves and make it work rather than sending "sternly worded emails" or espicially their crony SNCOs who have absolutely no place "correcting" officers in public in the disrespectful manner I'm sure we've all seen. /rant off

We've beat this topic up ad naseum. The big problem, the way I see it, is that E-9 Bag O'Doghnuts will almost certainly run tell his boss if an officer gives him a "talking to," deserved or not. That O-6 will then call your O-5 SQ/CC and pull him into his office to determine WTF happened. Then said O-5, whether he goes to bat for your or throws you under the bus, will talk to you one way or another to find our your side of the story. Time wasted for your boss, time wasted for you. So ignoring said E-9 in the first place is probably good technique for staying focused on the mission. Let him go way, waaay over the line before you elevate the situation and then even though it will be a waste of time, at least you've got pocket Aces. BL: Officers are at fault for the current environment and for empowering enlisted troops and/or giving them the midset that make disrespectful comments/corrections toward officers is ok. I've found in my short career that 9 times out of 10 when a E-9 is our front implementing a stupid idea enthusiastically, he's doing so at the behest of his senior officer boss, who is often rated to boot.

Dude, here's my safety rule of thumb...can you, with a straight face, explain to the Boss why it was necessary to perform that maneuver to accomplish your mission? If not, don't do it.

Just to clarify, this is false; ABM is 6 years same as Nav. Also, keep in mind that 6 years is from pinning wings so that's about 1-1.5 years after entering active duty, making your total commitment more like 7-8 years.

One of those guys is in space and the other gets to shoot people in the face...where do I sign up!

I have a huge problem with any model that bases a playoff on conference champions. So of the 11 teams that play in the postseason that's actually worth something, you only have 1 from each conference? Including about 3 conferences that suck hard core all the time and another 3-4 that suck sometimes? I don't think so. Also per your graph the Big 10 has to play to get into the 2nd round (and play in the Armed Forces bowl at that) but the dying Big 12 gets essentially a bye into the Rose Bowl? WTF? Per the model above, the SEC and PAC-12 would only send one team a piece? Sorry Alabama and Stanford, you're SOL. Those are the #2 and #4 teams in the country, but you'd rather see the sun belt conference champion play in a playoff? Insanity. If we're gonna blow up the system, let's blow it up for good. Have 4 major conferences that everyone's a part of, those 4 conference champions get automatic bids to the playoff and the next best 4 teams teams are selected at large and boom, 8 team playoff for all the marbles. No more independents, no more little conferences with maybe 1 good team that beats up on all the rest to go "undefeated" while the big boys slug it out every week, no more people saying the system is against them. Just win and you'll be in. That system gives you potential Cinderella stories al la college hoops like if a Houston or a TCU or a Boise State from years past that could actually win it all if they keep their streaks alive, but you also would have potentially 3-4 SEC teams if the SEC really is dominant that year (i.e. LSU, Alabama, Arkansas [all in the same division even!] this year for instance); same goes for any other conference that happens to excel in a particular year. Anyways, yea, let's do that. Never gonna happen because of the money and institutional momentum but one can dream.

You're right that Prowlers dropped occasionally. I knew a WSO who was in my class at RND for EWO top-off who originally dropped strike eagles but was then offered to do a tour with the navy first and he accepted. I have not heard anything about Growlers being available in the same way. I'd imagine that's driven by the fact that the Growler has only 1 NFO on board vs 3 on a Prowler...lots fewer seats to fill.

Agreed...I'm inundated with SEC bullsh*t down here but not gonna lie, the SEC has the best group of teams right now (and most years), and if the top two in the country come from the SEC so be it. Bama's loss is much better than OSUs, that should be the end of it. I was personally rooting for Georgia, OU, etc. so there's be as much parity as possible and maybe, just maybe, the BCS would demolish itself. One can hope...

Same goes for the 319th and 34th and I'm assuming the 15th would be game as well. There was no such opportunity at RND, so if CSO studs want AFSOC don't be afraid to reach out and try to learn more since we're right down the road.

Congrats to all those guys...cool that dudes wanted to and were able to stay in AFSOC. Guess the PC-12 guy really liked Cannon eh?

Dude, huge WTF on all this memo writing one way or the other. Here's how it should work as an instructor: Ask stud to submit dream sheet. Work AFPC to get drop that matches stud's desires. After you get the drop, try to match airplanes to studs as well as you can. Proceed with drop night. F these memos for specific airframes; here's a big lesson for every airframe out there - you're not that special! And this is coming from someone in AFSOC, we've got special right in the name. No one flying with a nav is that special. This isn't U-2s where you have to interview and do a flight demo; this isn't the god damn space shuttle. If the #1 stud says he wants AWACS and you don't drop all your strike eagles until the bottom third so be it. Until rules are established like in some navy pilot pipelines (i.e. you have to have a minimum MASS to get airframe X), then it should be completely open and up to the particular class, the particular instructor, and what's available at the time. If anyone on here is a P-cola instructor or a strike eagle guy and feels differently I'd honestly love to hear an explanation.

Seriously agree. I would love to see an OPR or award package read, "Took over highly successful, operationally excellent shop/Squadron/Group/Wing. Maintained excellence, made no unnecessary changes." THAT guy gets a high five in my book.

Figured this was as good a place as any. BL: U.S. helos fly into Pakistan, end up killing 25 government troops. They are pissed. Now kicking us out of an airbase on their side of the boarder. Story here.

We've seriously contemplated having a "lower patches" Friday in place of heritage patch Friday, which is now verboten. Take all four patches on your flight suit and place them as low on the velcro as possible. It looks ridiculous, and from my preliminary research, is totally legal.

With a OBOGS-related ceiling and a Top Gun-related hard-deck of 10K, I guess the Raptors will be flying, fighting, and winning at exactly 10,000'...