FlyinGrunt

Cannon > Hurlburt. Well, I guess someone had the be the devil's advocate.

If we can arrange for all our female aircrew to have a figure like Miss Biel, I'm all for that . . .

Gents, I typed - and deleted - about 10 responses to this thread. My lesson learned here? OPSEC. Be very careful about what we tell the interwebs about our capes and weaknesses. Might be good to stop this train before it gets rolling too fast to stop, because nearly every asset we mention is currently conducting combat ops . . . and you know the Russians/Chinese/etc are watching.

OK, the "solution" for the Gitmo folks? 1. What I'd like to see? Summary execution, bodies dumped at sea. Sadly, such a brazen move would have grave impacts abroad for us, due to the way it would look . . . illegal combatants or not, you go shooting prisoners/hostages/whatever, and you're going to have the whole world against you. Not good in the age of sequestration. 2. What should we do? Best case, covert RFID tag, track, AGM-114 direct to the skull. Worst case, release them, and use the appropriate assets to track them, same ending. If it was me, and the RFID wasn't an option, I'd release them all at the same time and place, knowing they'll go back to their buddies in large groups. AGM-114, bonus points for their friends. 3. Of course, if we could engineer a transfer via a Pacific routing with a 3rd party flagged ship, then talk the Chinese into one of their maritime sovereignty demonstrations, i.e. sinking a helpless civilian vessel, that would be best case for everyone. Never pass up the chance to be Machiavellian. Proclaim our values to the world loudly, but be merciless and downright evil in their defense. Hypocrisy is only a valid concept in terms of the national defense if you're caught, so be shady!

hindsight nails it again. I'm pretty bitter myself. BUT: 1. I'm about ready to accept "leadership`s" direct and implied advice: that my services are no longer needed. I'm a salty (before my years), profane, hard-drinking, skirt-chasing gunship guy, and whether or not I agree with it, I'm not the decision authority on retaining folks like me. 2. I firmly believe that when the s**t hits the fan, and IT WILL in the next 10 years, "leadership" will be begging for folks like me and those who taught me (who, I might add, are 300% the pilots, ACs, and badass warriors that I could hope to be!) And it won't just be an AC-130: "combat" experience will be highly sought after for every airframe in the AF. 3. But, in the meantime, someone has to keep the lights on. SNAPs may be themselves, and talk out of their 3rd points of contact, but if my dire predictions come true, they will be ADOs in the squadrons we will be recalled to join. Let's hope their passion extends to technical and tactical expertise, because we will need their knowledge when we come back, voluntarily or otherwise. And in case my message was not clear, ask Rainman what the Russians intend to do to anything east of Berlin. Or Pappy Boyington what the Red Chinese intend. Ladies and gentlemen, everything that was old is new again, and I assure you that the geopolitical struggle between states is not dead. History will again repeat itself, largely because we, as Americans, are too stupid and ignorant to see the cycle coming . . .

Hehe. I predict that Alenia gets frustrated with the idea quite soon, unless AFSOC shares a lot of lessons learned and technology with them . . . those proposed mission systems look AWFULLY familiar. They're about 6-7 years and and boatload of cash behind the curve, it appears.

Guys, can we just take the religion stuff to another thread? Let's get back to sport bitching about nonexistent leadership, broke planes, and acquisition debacles. And CBTs. And . . . And . . .

Silly question, but seeing as this is just the AF trying to do this . . . BAF and KAF (and the rest of AFG) should pretty much be saying "so what," right? 1. Doesn't the Army run the Dragon, as well as the other DFACs at BAF? 2. Contractor-run facilities at KAF 3. Germans running Mez 4. USMC/UK at Bastion 5. Etc. What am I missing?

Well, if AFSOC's gonna enter the fray on this one, let's do this . . . 1. Caveat: I am a T-44 guy, all gunships since then. Got quite a bit of experience in the inter-gunship crossflow bit. But no fighters. 2. I second that a decent crew can carry a weak AC. I've also seen ACs who can almost be an instructor to an entire crew of 13 newbies, all while getting the mission done and having hands of gold. 3. The former can't fly fighters. The latter . . . very well might be able to. Which makes we wonder if this pipe dream might be able to help the 11F problem: - Hold tryouts, more or less. T-38 requal/TX at base X, whereas every bomber/AFSOC/AMC gets a few slots to start. - No "officership" considerations allowed. Candidates must have the balls to put their hands up for consideration, then IP/EPs in the MWS get copies of their FEFs/training folders and take a vote. - Make it through 38s? IFF. Make it through that? RTU. Make it that far, and you get to be a wingman. And by "make it", I do not mean after 69 R-rides. I mean a strong performance. - Given what Toro and others have said, surely the gradual attrition along the line would save a lot of cash while assuring a quality end product. - CRITICAL: This can't be successful if we don't have a waiver to the normal FEB rules. Only the Robin Olds of the C-17, or the cockiest SOBs in the MAF would attempt such a gamble knowing they were going all-in with their wings on the table, and I don't think that would help the AF. Like I said, I'm gunship guy. Please let me know where I'm going wrong here.

From my time at VBG and much of what I've learned from 13N/13S types since, I think I know some of the stuff I'd do. I would insist on the following, though: 1. Complete authority on hire/fire. I'd need some missile experience to help me lead while I was getting spun up, but if that experience was unwilling to share my vision or blatantly insubordinate, I would make my DO a snacko if that's what it took. 2. I get to finish my tour as a Sq/CC, barring any UCMJ/gross misconduct/past nuclear scandals. In other words, I'm gonna establish the metrics by which I judge my crewmembers, and the OG and WG can't fire me because I don't comply with their toxic culture of "100% or you're fired." 3. I get to hand-pick my successor. 4. 3 years at the missile wing, tops. My last shreds of idealism only go so far. I think this can be fixed. It will absolutely take a bloody purge, outsiders coming in, and leading from the front in a style that may not have been seen since Robin Olds led the Wolfpack, but it can be fixed. And Loco . . . I generally agree that most OG and Wg/CC types need a seeing-eye IP, but there are some notable exceptions. The SOG/CV at CVS, for example . . .

Exactly. You think his boss didn't tell him exactly what to say on that one? (for the record, I'm at CVS too . . . not just being an internet douche here.)

I have to say, I'm sad to not have both Col Farrell and Col West here anymore. They're two of the best I've seen so far.

Don't forget who the 27 SOW/CC is . . . and who trained him at HRT. Can't say I am even surprised . . . we've gone full retard with leadership in AFSOC.

Hang on. Liquid is trying to make a point, and rather than we crew dogs saying "open the floodgates!!", he's trying to make us consider what we would do in the wing king's position. Here's my take: 1. All MDS silhouettes/names are OK. As a gunship guy, I also say that "gruesome" things about killing are OK, just don't wear them at airshows and scar little Timmy with your evil warfighting hate. 2. All sports teams and state flags are OK (plus both Don't Tread on Me flags, Gonzalez flag, and any past American flag) 3. Acronyms are OK, profanity is not (unless the acronym is something egregious, like RCH) 4. All others, take a picture and send to Sq/CC. Sq/CC says yes or no, then execs put it on sharepoint or something. Intent is 30 sec of the Sq/CC's time per patch. Sound sane? I might add that I just outlawed 50% of my own morale patches, so hopefully the PTB will appreciate the intellectual honesty. In case it wasn't clear, I'm hoping they're lurking.

Chang, On Sept 11, 2001, I was a senior in high school. I felt a combination of intense rage at our attackers and a solemn duty that "to whom much is given, much is expected." As someone who felt very blessed in the gene pool and upbringing, I felt it was my solemn duty to lead the fight in defending my country. Here we are, almost 13 years later. Numerous deployments later, when I look myself in the mirror at 0 dark 30 in some sandy place, I can't convince myself anymore that I'm defending our country. A nation that doesn't care enough to commit to win its wars, yet still commits its troops to sacrifice their relationships, futures, bodies and even their lives. I do what I do solely because of the duty I feel to my brothers on the ground. The rewards of an Air Force career? I look at the timid souls around and above me, those who in so many cases lack the intellectual honesty or critical thinking to question what exactly they are straining their families for any more. I see, all too often, people afraid to leave the peaceful mediocrity that is the essence of most Air Force careers. These people have turned a bold, fearless organization into one that the Stasi would admire: thou shalt follow the path and the dogma or find thyself forced out. I've got some things I still want to accomplish. When they're done, I'll forge my own path. Like so many on this board, I know that if I take half the talents and work ethic I've put into flying and apply them to something else, I will succeed. Have fun with your pathetic little check from mother government.

Nsplayr, I know you're intelligent enough to understand that what you're arguing is only effective on the ignorant millions who do not understand the concepts of net present value, time value of money, and real buying power. Constant dollars over time, coupled with expectations of future inflation (as supported by the Fed's desired inflation targets and policies to support) together add up to decreased buying power and standards of living for our veterans. Whether you're for or against the bill is immaterial . . . anyone with a basic knowledge of economics can see right through the "this isn't a cut" argument.

True. But nevertheless, when you make a promise, YOU KEEP IT. This is the kernel of why we have an Honor Code at the Academies. TOT, bump plan, what-have-you . . . the folks on here involved in combat ops know that you do not go NORDO at the moment of truth, and you tell that truth as soon as you know it - lives are on the line. The fact that OSI did that, along with apparently lying about C1C Thomas's records, make this despicable. Would you decry a rape victim because she happened to be a stripper, or even a hooker? While clearly a simile gone absurd, I think you get my point: just because the victim's character isn't perfect doesn't mean that all wrongs are justified against them. After all, in today's absurd warrior monk USAF model, we have all fallen short of the glory of the US Air Force. I myself am no exception.

With regards to quality of life and deployments, especially towards the Army: the grass is greener on both sides. While I have nothing but respect for those who endured, say, the 1 AD's legendary 18 month deployment to Iraq during the early stages of OIF, the short deployment plan has hazards too. Just ask the numerous units who spent a decade on 2 on, 2 off, for instance. Sure, you're never gone for long. But you're never home either. I have seen the divorce rates from that schedule, and they compete with Bragg any day. And there are still a number of units on 4 on, 4 off . . . until told otherwise. It's tough all over, and when there's no light at the end of the tunnel, reducing compensation is not going to help matters. At all.

Schoolhouse is about 6 months- correct. Preparation? Not much you can do for now. The course is mixed crew positions - all crew positions go through as a class, though every individual class/sim/etc is broken up depending on who needs the instruction. There is a lot of self-study; some days are packed and sometimes you will have almost nothing scheduled all week. However, that may change in the near future due to a host of factors. Seeing as "CSO" in Pcola-speak is not the same as "CSO" as a crew position on the W, I don't know which crew position (Nav/CSO) you're going to . . . I think thus far everyone straight out of Pcola has gone Nav, but that doesn't mean you're not the first of a trend if you are in fact going to be a W CSO. And yes, both Nav and CSO on the W have some WSO-like responsibility. In my opinion, two of the best CSO jobs in the AF - though I will warn you, the workload as a crewmember is very high. It will be a challenge.

That dude makes some good arguments. However, there's only so much an armchair wing commander can foresee with no security clearance and no knowledge of any, much less all three, nations' TTPs and capes. Best points I see are 1) that we shouldn't assume our technology makes us invincible . . . but I don't think any of our dudes flying OCA/DCA/SEAD think that way. The second is that we need to be keenly aware of the anti-access/area-denial issues our limited basing presents. Of course, the entire DoD had been beating that drum for at least a decade in PACOM before some nerd with a computer game showed up . . .

Guys, there's another historic parallel I think that merits discussion: the run-up to WWI. Factor 1: Regional competition between great powers, spilling over into global competition for resources - in the form of colonialism, supporting rapid industrial and technological advancement. Fewer players at the table this time, and there is no outright colonization going on, but seriously, the parallels are scary. Factor 2 (and even more scary): a system of entangling alliances and treaty commitments. Given, the web in Western and Central Europe was way crazier than just the USA-Japan-Phillipines - etc vs China, but CH already hit on it: while the US and China have no interest in war, don't underestimate the possibility of us getting dragged into things if shots get fired at Japan. Germany wasn't exactly fired up about defending Austro-Hungarian stupidity, and they were caught somewhat off-guard by the Russian intervention on behalf of Serbia . . . to say nothing of France jumping in with the Russians after having been crushed by them less than 100 years earlier. Factor 3, and this is something all too clear from the Cold War: War isn't some predictable, sterile game. Things escalate quickly when the rounds are flying, and in today's world of advanced weaponry, I think the possibility for things getting out of hand quickly is serious. The US and USSR had a number of such close calls. Don't think China will be any different. Factor 4, and I'll stop here: Just like the Soviet Politburo or the German imperial government, nations are NOT unitary actors. All it takes is a Curtis LeMay, Sergei Lavrov, Wilhelm II, or similar hawk to sway the key players at the policy meeting, and then you've got a full-scale escalation on your hands. It happened during the Hungarian Revolution, it came within inches during the Cuban Missile Crisis, and it was avoided by cooler heads when MacArthur got fired in Korea and Able Archer got scaled back in the 1980s. If we (and our allies/adversaries) don't keep a cool head and the diplomatic channels open, history WILL repeat itself.

I'm with Nsplayer on this one. Maybe not Super-T, maybe not AH-64s for the USMC, but the current and worsening budget environment has to force some culture changes in ALL services. 1. USN and USAF handles big war OCA/DCA/SEAD/EA? Yep. USAF will take long-range strike via bombers, USN provides TLAMs. 2. USMC for forward-deployed, responsive combined arms? Yep. Short-boat air for CAS/assault/mobility. 3. Lawman is right . . . USA's deployment timetables are atrocious. This HAS to get better. I don't pretend to have the fix for this, aside from forward-staged heavy equipment stores . . . which we have, but I'm pretty sure could use some updating. Here's a thought: unless you think we're actually going to need all our Paladins and Abrams to defend ourselves from China in CONUS, just how much heavy firepower do we really need in CONUS to train? How about having a large percentage of that parked near more likely trouble spots, packed to move quickly using USMMC shipping (or USN, or whoever?) 4. Just like the USAF has gotten a forced shift towards RPA ops, courtesy of joint demands, perhaps it's time to put the ghost of Guadalcanal to rest - though I agree that it will take a national-level directive towards true jointness and assigned roles to do so, along with far more joint exercises with teeth. COPE BOONDOGGLE every 2 years, money permitting ain't gonna get it done. 5. The nation needs a Marine Corps. It just might need to be something other than Corps doctrine says it has to be.

You know, I'd consider taking a major chance with my career on that one. That message was inevitably leadership by email, correct? And Gen Welsh is on the global, right? I'd forward it to him, and just ask respectfully, "Sir, is this message we received keeping with your intent? We'd like to make sure we're taking the proper initiative." I know that he receives 11 billion emails. I know there's a snowball's chance in hell he reads it. Therefore there's only a snowball's chance in hell that the fecal storm would actually happen, and inevitably get traced back to me with predictable results. But you never know. "Stop doing things that don't make sense" from the CSAF himself is a pretty good sword to fall on.

Agree with all. If you have wings on your chest, you have a need to know about any mishap info - and whenever we get briefed about anything, I make a point to pull some newer LTs/Airmen aside and point out the "there's how that could have been us" bits. We need to get out of our narrow MDS lanes in order to relate mishap factors to our own community, and I also think the current SE culture makes that tough. However, after the discussion of questionable use of SIB data in other threads in, say, AMC . . . I can understand how that fight can be difficult. Liquid: props to you, sir, for your work-around with that bootleg copy of the video. I think I can speak for most aircrew that we are inspired and motivated when our leadership finds ways to get the job done and say yes rather than just saying why something can't be done.

Also yes.