di1630

Liquid, coincidence, today my great uncle who is 99 years old and was a 3-star general (at one point a MAJCOM CC), fought in 3 wars, bailed out of 3 aircraft sent me this email FWD. I tell him stories of the USAF now and he barely can beleive it is the same service he once loved to be in. He was mostly a bomber guy and to this day he likes to give fighter pilots s#it. Give it a read, or maybe you read it before. We used to go to the Officers Club or NCO Club Stag Bar on Friday afternoons to drink, smoke and swap lies with our comrades. Think about this when you read the rest of the letter below. What happened to our Air Force/Marines/Army/Navy/CG... (or Military)? Drinking then became frowned on. Smoking caused cancer and could "harm you." Stag bars became seen as 'sexist'. Gradually, our men quit patronizing their clubs because what happened in the club became fodder for a performance report. It was the same thing at the Airman's Club and the NCO and/or Top 3 clubs. Now we don't have separate clubs for the ranks. Instead we have something called All Ranks Clubs or community clubs. They're open to men and women of all ranks....from airman basic to general officer. Still, no one is there. Gee, I wonder why. The latest brilliant thought out of Washington is that the operators ("pilots?") flying remote aircraft in combat areas from their plush desk at duty stations in Nevada or Arizona should draw the same combat pay as those real world pilots actually on board a plane in a hostile environment. More politically correct logic? They say that remote vehicle operators are subject to the same stress levels as the combat pilot actually flying in combat. ----- REALLY...you're bull-shitting me, right !!!??? Now that I've primed you a little, read on. There are many who will agree with these sentiments, but they apply to more than just fighter pilots. Unfortunately, the ones with the guts to speak up or push for what they believe in are beaten down by the "system." "Unfortunately there is a lot of truth in the following text - supposedly, Secretary Gates had a force beating the bushes to learn who wrote this.... Where have all the fighter pilots gone? Good Question. Here is a rant from a retired fighter pilot that is worth reading: It is rumored that our current Secretary of Defense recently asked the question, "Where are all the dynamic leaders of the past?" I can only assume, if that is true, that he was referring to Robin Olds, Jimmy Doolittle, Patton, Ike, Boyington, Nimitz, etc.? Well, I've got the answer: They were fired before they made Major! Our nation doesn't want those kinds of leaders anymore. Squadron commanders don't run squadrons and wing commanders don't run wings. They are managed by higher ranking dildos with other esoteric goals in mind. Can you imagine someone today looking for a LEADER to execute that Doolittle Raid and suggesting that it be given to a dare-devil boozer - his only attributes: he had the respect of his men, an awesome ability to fly, and the organizational skills to put it all together? If someone told me there was a chance in hell of selecting that man today, I would tell them they were either a liar or dumber than shit. I find it ironic that the Air Force put Brigadier General Robin Olds on the cover of the company rag last month. While it made me extremely proud to see his face, he wouldn't make it across any base in America (or overseas) without ten enlisted folks telling him to zip up his flight suit, get rid of the cigarette, and shave his mustache off. I have a feeling that his response would be predictable and for that crime he would probably get a trip home and an Article 15. We have lost the war on rugged individualism and that, unfortunately, is what fighter pilots want to follow; not because they have to but because they respect leaders of that ilk. We've all run across that leader that made us proud to follow him because you wanted to be like him and make a difference. The individual who you would drag your testicles through glass for rather than disappoint him. We better wake the hell up! We're asking our young men and women to go to really shitty places; some with unbearable climates, never have a drink, have little or no contact with the opposite sex, not look at magazines of a suggestive nature of any type, and adhere to ridiculous regs that require you to tuck your shirt into your PT uniform on the way to the porta-shitter at night, in a blinding dust storm, because it's a uniform. These people we're sending to combat are some of the brightest I've met but they are looking for a little sanity, which they will only find on the outside if we don't get a friggin' clue. You can't continue asking people to live for months or years at a time acting like nuns and priests. Hell, even they get to have a beer. Who are we afraid of offending? The guys that already hate us enough to strap C-4 to their own bodies and walk into a crowd of us? Think about it. I'm extremely proud of our young men and women who continue to serve. I'm also very in tune with what they are considering for the future and I've got news for whoever sits in the White House, Congress, and our so-called military leaders. Much talent has and will continue to hemorrhage from our services, because wanna-be warriors are tired of fighting on two fronts - - one with our enemies, another against our lack of common sense.

Liquid, its a message board so of course I don't know your background or experience unless you put it out there but my apologies if I hit a nerve. Maybe my assumptions were a bit uncalled for but in my defense, I've seen a ton of poor leader careerists put on rank well above O-6...most spouting the same lingo you do seeming out of touch with the commoner. Maybe you've run into me already. If you have, I doubt you ever heard an inappropriate comment or anything unprofessional. Have you read the modern dear boss letter? Does it make sense to you that people leave the mostly highly regarded and sought after job (pilot) in the USAF even when we throw $$ in their faces? Have you ever heard the reasons? I hear em every day as I watch the USAF shed talent. "Sick of the stupid shit", "poor leadership" are probably most common. I could name many but most revolve around things leadership could change, hell not change, just leave alone......that is if leadership weren't so concerned about CYA measures, catering to the vocal minority and bowing to the Ultra-PC crowd. Hacker summed it up well, no need to beat a dead horse. Thanks for engaging though.

So using STS and 69 are male only things and comparable to lynching as heritage? C'mon dude, I know female pilots who talk dirtier than the dudes. Also, yeah, people need to conform to traditions and have some thick skin. how can I have an honest debrief if I'm woried the guy/gal is going to cry when I tell them their flight sucked. "Sucked" how dare I use that. This ultra-sensitive PC shit is overboard. Catering to the weak is a losing investment. We are shedding talent to keep in the easily offended vocal whiners. Killing people and flying fast jets in REAL combat is not a puss game.

Dude, if I can't have some fun and attack a dude I disagree with on BON, things have gotten gay. I mean really, a guy shows up spouting USAF one liners straight from PME books and says the USAF will be a better place without fighter pilot culture. Give me a break. I grew up around retired pilots who boozed, sang and partook in debauchery. These guys were in their 60's, some had been POWs, fought in multiple wars, most had been flag officers. They inspired me to work hard so I too could some day fly planes and party like they did. Now the pansies with a ultra-PC corporate mentality are in charge....and they wonder why morale is low. It is because leadership like liquid is so out of touch with what the average pilot wants/needs to be happy in their job. They think just because filling squares and climbing the ladder is good for them, that shoudl motivate everyone else. I just want to fly, be respected, treated like a professional and allowed the same heritage that was afforded in the past.

Just having some fun, with that being said I'll cave to your sensitivities as is expected in the USAF and delete it. Sorry I offended you

You are missing the point. Did boozing and growing a mustache make Robin Olds a better pilot? This is about traditions, fun, work hard/play hard, fun competition via verbal BFM being taken away because some chick who didn't earn her stripe threw the whole fighter community under the bus. And because all the leadership involved are at a level where they have traded their wings and balls to become politicians, ever in fear that not making their next star will lead them to the BX where they have to wear the USAF retired hat while knowing that nothing they did really fvcking mattered. I'm tired of being treated like an 18 yr old amn basic. I did well enough in life to get where I am, I expect a little goddamn respect and not to be lumped in with every f-stick that actually causes trouble. Lastly, who is the USAF to preach morality and decide what is offensive and not?

I am going to start using so to speak at times its does not make sense. Really gonna fry the minds of the politician shoe clerks when I give a wing briefing and throw a few blatant out with no innuendo whatsoever. F- em Anyone know the source unit? Gotta be DM, Hill or Mountain Home given 12AF fighters.

Heard today of a SQ/CC getting counseled for using 6-9 minutes. Also heard General Polumbo is on a warpath about "so to speak"...and heard there have been numerous CAF firings for some really small things so nothing surprises me. I am going to make it a point to use so-to-speak when it makes no sense whatsoever to do so next WG audienceI get. Get those shoeclerk minds spinning they hear it it looking for connotation and there is none.

Lovin it!. I've done 12 years of flying a few fun deployments, no bad TDYs and have 3 more years of flying coming up and was going to stay in even if there was no bonus. Just because I work in an orgnization that lacks in-touch leadership, common sense and if were a corporation would have been bankrupted years ago, does not make me disgruntled.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA I'll sit back with my $225K and watch the shitshow awesome leadership continue.

Once you click the submit button you hack starts regardless of when you sign from what I saw. If you ASD was 30 July and you asked the app to be built 3 July you should get the full 225K

$15,834 to be exact. What a shitshow. I get it, but I just read the ACP and nowhere does it really allude to that. Figured everyone in the same FY would get the same deal, and the ADSC would be the 20 YAS date period in FY21. Warn the bros if they plan on signing, each day of delay is costing them $$

Thats how the math worked out for mine..based off the day I clicked the button online. I'm a little pissed because according to what I can figure, the delay in relasing the ACP cost anyone who didn't start UPT after 26 June 2002 $69.43 per day. The website was down 2 days after release....boom goes $140.

I think we are good for retirement but I expect to be grandfathered in this late. I think the kicker for the bonus is that most people probably didn't understand that each day they delayed pressing the acceptance button cost them $69.43 per day UNLESS they are one of the few eligible for the full $225 who started UPT Jun 27 02 or later. I was gong to stay in even without a bonus because my future work-for-myself business plans that do not include the airlines will be made easier with a retirement and healthcare. This is free money for me so I shouldn't complain too much.

Just figured out the math. Accepted the agreement on 27 June....the only way to get the full $225K is to stay in until 27 June 2022 in my case.....but my 20YAS is up 9 Nov 2021. So BL is the 9 year contract is based off acceptance date on the website.......which now brings me to question whether you can actually get the full $225K or if at 20YAS they say, thanks, ######-off, gotcha to sign. In my opinion misleading, I figured that it was $225K period. Would have taken it regardless, I am just now groomed to expect shady shit from the USAF.

Not 100% sure but leaning towards putting it on my mortage for a rental property. I only have a 3.375% rate but its the highest loan I have so I figure I could pocket an extra $200 per month in interest savings that way. I thought about doing the 25K per year but I think inflation is bound to creep up and eat away. Did the math and the 1/2 up front made sense for my tax bracket. Got any ideas?

50% up front until 20yrs which ends Nov 2021. Just checked my LES, ACP was $104,583.33....I'm guessing something must be pro-rated since I'm only committed until 20YASD- Nov 8 2021 but I can't make the math work to make sense. Heres what I can make work but it assumes pro-rated for FY13 and FY21 and I have been overpaid a year. Paid $104,583 x 2= $209,166 total ACP = 8 years and 132 days (25k/12 = $2083 bonus per month) ($2083/30 = $69.43 per day on the bonus) Signed the bonus 27 June 13, new ADSC is 9 Nov 2021 which IF pro rated would = 7 years and 132 days on the bonus. I can't help but think that 132 days is not coincidence but I thought the if any proration was done I'd be paid for 8 years and 39 days = 202,707. Did I miss a proration note in the ACP verbiage?

No state taxes, I have TSP pulled from base pay (10%) so this doesn;t make sense. Only thing I could think of was SS and medicare (hadn;t figured on them) but I ran the numbers and can;t make anything add up to the amount witheld.

Trying to figure out taxes my ACP pay that just got depositied: looks like they witheld out 30.27% by my calculations. Any of you tax experts know why this would be higher than the 28% max I was expecting to be taken? Made about a 4k difference.

So sm I correct in assuming that the full 28% will be taken up front out and I'll see the rest as a refund at tax time?

82.1K is a good starting point assuming 28% taken out. Depends on your situation. For me, with a wife who works part time, 2 kids and a house, 10% base to TSP, my taxable income will fall into the 28% bracket for the bonus portion. Part of the bonus $ (about (70k) will be taxed at 25% and the other 42.5k will be taxed into the 28% bracket. Unless you have a wife working full time in a good paying job or you have som elarge form of alternate income, you probably won't see anything worse than 28% for a portion of your income. BL, assume 28% taken out = $82.1k and thats about right for net but in the end, probably less.

Submitted mine on 27 June...still pending. An 11R submitted for the normal 5 yr option on the same day and had the money in less than a week.

Homophobia is gay, so don't be a homo.

All of your arguments all can be summed up into on concise sentence "USAF aircrew (mis)management is a shitshow". Funny stuff to read though and a great break from my endless qweep.

I think they will miss the 65% retention goal because they rolled it out 1/2 waythrough the FY when a bunch of bonus eligible dudes already punched. From the 11F guys I've talked to, the $225k option has not changed their minds. Most dudes line up ANG/Res jobs well before they hit their point and have their minds made up. I think it is standard USAF trying to throw money at a complex problem. Who wins?....guys who were gonna stay in regardless.