Negatory

It’s the assault and arrest of law abiding citizens that bothers me. And it’s the mindset of those that blindly support all police at all costs - even when there are equivocally some that have grossly abused and are abusing power literally right now. Not the arrest of looters or people that are breaking the law. Lock em up.

This is what happens when all of your arguments are ad hominem, appeals to authority, and straw man fallacies.

Yeah ok. If you think a bunch of law enforcement hiding their identities and assaulting citizens with no charges is the same as police protecting property, JFC. Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

WTF does it matter how the protestors are dressed? I'm all for a good peaceful protest but the simple fact is, the far right cannot stop at that. They'll push things further and further until they get a reaction. No problem with protestors in tactical gear, don't give a foook the design. And I laugh when right nationalists get smacked down. I'm a softcore libertarian but when people go too far (usually the right) I expect the citizens of the state to push back to protect the average citizen's constitutional rights. I thought maybe I'd vote for the libertarian this election like I did in 16....now I'm firmly opposed to the Trump camp. The authoritarian right must be stopped.

What do you think about the fact that legalization of marijuana has been relatively successful in many states and countries up to this point? That is, it hasn't caused mass homelessness or deaths or mental illness, and its legalization has actually made its purchase safer while allowing the government to collect revenue (and simultaneously defunding drug dealers). Does this make you think that an overarching "war on drugs" is maybe a bit too broad? Maybe the policies of the past were... wrong?

Authoritarianism is okay as long as it’s only used on the other guys.

Watch this video and tell me that police reform isn’t a thing that needs to happen. A previous Naval officer wants to go talk to the feds and ask them why they are there constitutionally? They break his hand in 10 seconds and cover him in pepper spray. You better believe that if had as much as thought about pushing away the idiot who started beating him or defending himself they would have arrested him. You and I will never know who those guys who abused their power were. And there’s a problem with that. The worse problem? There are dozens of videos that have emerged in the last month like this where policed think they are invulnerable. Not over-exaggerating. My vote, make a UCPJ, make all police sign an oath that holds them liable to a higher standard, and actually hold them accountable. The military in my opinion does a great job of separating the good core of the organization from the people who don’t uphold organizational values. I’m sure there are ways to stop or at least limit abuses of power by the police, and that starts with reform. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/07/20/us/portland-protests-navy-christopher-david.amp.html

I see your point. I’m not a proponent of socialism whatsoever, and, yeah, sometimes it’s hard having to go with the party that includes viewpoints that are so outside of my own. Joe Biden is not nearly what or who I would select if I could choose, but he’s more closely aligned than the alternatives.

I really am receptive, sorry for the last line. Legitimately would love to discuss issues.

Since this is an anonymous forum where people share anonymous thoughts, I'd like to hear why you all are planning on voting red this year? Specifically, what policies are actually making you interested in the republican platform? Because I can't find many convincing ones? I voted for Bush in 2000 and 2004 and McCain in 2008, but since ~2009, I feel republican views have shifted out of line with my own. Important issues for me where I think dems have a better plan than reps: 1) Infrastructure development/maintenance - a large pointed investment in the Army Corps of Engineers plus an actual plan for future technologies (battery tech at the DoE, renewable energy) seems like a better plan than just saying "We'll put $1T towards infrastructure" and not having a detailed vision 2) Finding a way to deal with the inevitable dystopia as machines displace workers who can't easily retrain (truck drivers, factory workers, manual laborers, single parents with kids, etc) - you have to have strong job retraining programs and a social safety net like never before seen or else society will not handle this transition. This is a legitimately insane thing happening right now with no plan to fix it - even to your jobs (commercial pilots likely won't exist in 50-100 years), and the republican plan is to let the unbridled free market sort this out. 3) A plan to deal with the increasing economic bullshit that we have now seen twice where losses are socialized and gains are privatized. CEOs and stockholders say they take all the risk, but have you ever seen a billionaire go bankrupt when their company didn't save any money and then were hit with a period of economic stability? Oh, all of the airlines and many other companies that just did stock buybacks over the last decade as opposed to having any reserves? Oh, okay. If we keep the system we currently have, we are keeping a system, which has proven to be catastrophic to the average person now twice in the last 12 years. Increase marginal tax rates of the upper echelons, a wealth tax on money over a huge amount of dollars is not that insane, increase worker protections, and let businesses fail. 4) Global warming action - the current Admin's plan to just let free with coal and fossil fuels is a short-sighted terrible one. But I guess that's what happens when you don't believe 99% of scientists and can just say "fake news" to everything that you don't like. It's real, sorry homies. 5) BLM/police brutality/social issues/gay rights/etc - Republican strat is just to not care, democrat strat is to at least talk about the issues. Whether you like it or not, a large part of bringing stability back to the nation is mediating between groups that feel marginalized. It's not effective to just say "suck it up, buttercup" Others: universal healthcare, budget deficit (both sides have no plan here, long gone are the days where republicans were the "deficit hawks"), military action (we don't need to be in Iraq/Syria/Afghanistan/Israel/Saudi, we need to come home and focus on developing future weapons to maintain parity with China), and a bunch more. So go ahead, convince me as to your issues and why the republican party will deliver better results.

Pretty defeatist attitude, huh? I will tell you that a lot of smart people in AFMC are excited that someone is looking to fix some of the things that are wrong with the current acquisition/test/equip structure of the USAF and military at large. If this can help us be quicker and gives us more options, that is a good deal for America. And at the end of the day, that’s what matters.

The US has one of the lowest life expectancies out of 1st world countries. We have one of the highest expenditures on healthcare per capita. Logical DFP - our country/economic model is horribly inefficient compared to most other similar nations and could easily be improved.

It’s unfortunate, but every person I know that’s “100% disabled” can still get around just fine and could easily work. Don’t you also get tax free or something?

Why? I’m not looking to buy, just wondering

Maybe they could use VR/cameras for the landing task? I’d also be concerned about nonstandard g-forces/kinesthetic effects in the cockpit. When you move the pilot position aft, often you will experience a non-intuitive reduction in g (a sinking feeling) initially when you pitch up (as your tail drops). Makes flying by the seat of your pants a lot more difficult.

Just remember y’all (I know, that’s cultural appropriation), if we’ve learned anything from this thread it’s that “libruls” have bad DNA that predisposes them to rioting (and man buns I guess?), and that when you are figuring out how to deal with someone who has a different opinion than you, you should get your guidance from the rootin tootin time of the civil war. got it

I agree with your argument, but hopefully you realize that the way you wrote it was pretty one-sided. From the more liberal side, the perception of MAGA supporters is that they also are "indoctrinated and fed an information diet from a media owned and barking the propaganda of global corporations who are hell bent on paying everyone not in a corner office as little as possible." It's not just the enemies of Tucker Carlson that are indoctrinated - it's actually his viewers too. I believe that a lot of what is wrong comes from the two-party system. Two-party systems all draw connections between issues that often shouldn't be formed at all, because VERY different people have to vote for the same party as the same entity. Simultaneously, which party you prefer indicates and influences your world view. E.g. Religious fundamentalists, anti-taxes folks, xenophobes, and gun rights activists are as uncomfortable a political marriage as socially progressive CEOs, marxists, and working class folks that feel like they can't get by, but that is totally normalized in the two party American system. And if you want to succeed, you typically have to compromise on a large portion of your values when you actually get to the voting booth in a lesser of two evils sort of way. Democracy is founded on the essential value that societies ought to be run by people who live there. If not only for the sake that Leadership be legitimate. But moreover because every commonly held view, even within small minorities of people, has merit and ought be at least heard through, and in doing so Democracy would in fact function more effectively and effectiently. Thus, representing as many people as possible in government ought be the goal of any democracy. And the US has a hell of a lot more than two political positions across its 360M. And the federal government needs to actually represent as many of its citizens as possibles and its citizens views actual views as much as possible. The struggle of government ought be the natural opposition of these views. But not structurally built in as we see in the 20th century US. I think you can improve American democracy. I personally believe that the solution to this is an improvement to our democratic model: ranked choice voting with a mixed member congress model that allows for multiple groups (similar to NZ, UK, Germany). When there isn't a majority, coalition blocs have to work together to get things done. Additionally, when a party can get 5% of the vote, they may actually get representation, albeit a small amount. As opposed to the winner take all mentality that scares the shit out of people right now and forces polarization. It would encourage voting, enhance your voice, and reduce anxiety about losing everything as it's less likely. The older I get, the more I think that it's constitutional amendment or bust. Whether Trump or Biden wins in 2020, I don't think the country becomes more united in the current system.

Absolutely, include all of the training. There is definitely a perception now that the desire to push dudes through AETC to units could be a contributing factor in these incidents. Heartbreaking 🥃

A toast 🥃

Trying to character assassinate an anonymous person on the internet when you have no idea what they do seems risky, but I’ll allow it. My point is that you can’t just say “deranged ... Marxism” or “socialism” and have everyone clap. If you want to engage on effects of specific policies, I’d be happy to talk. For example, I’m not fond of socialism as a whole system of governance. But I feel like if I told you that I believe that top bracket marginal tax rates should be doubled from 37% because I think that the system in its current incarnation isn’t working as intended, you would call me a socialist. Even though we had 70-91% tax rates from 1950-1980, one of the greatest economic growth periods in US history. The word is meaningless in discourse because it’s thrown around at everything that is even remotely progressive.

@Erthwerm Don’t feel like you can’t have different opinions, and you don’t have to justify your cred before posting. On the Internet, we’re all the same and I personally wish more discourse about things like this happened here and in real life. People nowadays are too damn polarizing trying to win arguments just throwing out words like “tyranny” and “Marxism.”

Baseops, like most military social circles, is an echo chamber of people who have never had their views confronted. You ever sit back and just let the irony that you all live and work in a socialist paradise wash over you? Once you're in, your job is secure (you face no chance of an immediate layoff, and the VAST majority of people can make it to 20-40 years if they want to), your healthcare is paid for, you get an affordable housing allowance based on your status in the system (oh and it changes based on where you are in America), you have a perception that budget doesn't matter (who cares how much that FHP or those TVs costs, just fly it and buy it so we get more money next year), you get basically guaranteed promotions that are based more on timing than on merit, you're handed a ridiculous retirement package that requires no self-involvement or contributions, the worst workers are paid the same as the best, you get paid when a pandemic causes you not to work at all for weeks, you get regular wage increases that keep up with or exceed inflation, you have 30 days of paid leave a year. The military organization keeps hundreds of thousands of people on payroll (in a money bleeding way) just in case they need them, paying them way more than the value we get out of them (the vast majority of the military is a self-licking ice cream cone when we aren't at real war). The military system is the antithesis to self-reliance, meritocracy, accountability, ROI, or profitability. But it sure is nice to be in it right now when the system out there isn't taking care of people.

Was that video a bait? Did you actually watch it?

Yeah, I personally know multiple fighter pilots who have turned with other nations’ aircraft in the last decade. Way more than I ever expected. Thats what happens when the ROE is basically “you stay on this side of the river/point/airfield, they will stay over there. Except sometimes they won’t. But don’t let them not. But don’t do anything about it if they do. Got it??”

F&@$ that. That is all.