gohornsgo

Ugh. This is such bullshit. One year later nearly to the day. We've buried too many good dudes here lately. This is the guy that immediately popped in my mind when I sat here and read about the "toxic" climate at the 87th. Trojan was one of those dudes that had it figured out, as a FAIP, more so than some dudes twice his age ever will. The balance he struck between instructor and bro was absolutely perfect. Flying with him was like going up with friend, right up until you f'ed something up and then he set you straight. I trusted the dude implicitly in the jet, his professionalism was beyond reproach. He was one of those guys you met and knew "Yeah man, this guy is going somewhere." Sorry I over-g'd it on you Graz. I hope you're teaching Stuck how to fly better Tac Form up there. Him him. 🍺

I gotta say. I loved the shit out of the 87th as a stud. I thought the IPs were great. The instruction was great. I was treated like an actual human being and dudes took a huge amount of stock and pride in the outcome of your training. I left there and, with very very very few exceptions, I'd buy a night's worth of rounds for every single dude/dudette I flew with there. But lets face it. There were some serious shenanigans going on.

I flew with him as a young nav and ran into him again as a 38 stud at DLF. I saw him in the hall not 15 minutes before we stepped to fly on Monday and we talked about hopefully flying 4-ship together for old times sake. One of the most gregarious, over the top, talk your ear off for hours larger than life guys I've ever known. F*ck, this one hurts. I'll miss you brother.

Try e-mailing AFPC.PCSM@us.af.mil explaining your situation. I just now kind of wrapped my head around what your situation is (sorry, I was just kind of browsing the thread earlier). Long story short, I took my TBAS about 7 years ago as well. I did abysmally. I took it again after 180 days was up and scored a 92. When they rescored everything, it dropped back down to a 78. I'd already taken the TBAS twice, so I e-mailed these guys when I decided to apply to the UFT board last year asking what I needed to do to submit a request for a third test. They came back and said I was authorized a retest because of the version change, even though the FAQs page on the TBAS site seemed to imply I didn't. I took it again and scored a 96. Shit was awesome. Your situation might be different since you've taken the new version already, however I'd shoot them an e-mail and see if you have any recourse based on your situation. If anything, they may allow you an outright retest since the guidance isn't crystal clear with the new version now -- or you might be able to get a waiver pushed through if need be. Remember, you can still update your scores even after the cutoff for application submission up to a certain point, so if it takes a while it still might be worth it. The worst answer you can hear is you're f'd and stuck with your score, and in that case I'd encourage you to still push forward with your application. You never know what's going to happen, and the dude running the board this year at AFPC is super adamant that people don't get discouraged by the ridiculous average score/selection rate last year. You might still be competitive with other things in your application and not even know it. Also, just for reference, I retook the AFOQT as well. My pilot score went from a 90 to a 76 when they realigned the scores. So when I took the TBAS again, it came back in the low 80s. When my new AFOQT scores came back with a 97 pilot score or something like that, it shot my PCSM up over 10 points. The weight they're putting on the AFOQT seems to be much heavier than it used to be. Again, good luck man.

this. Also, if you don't have your ifs hours, you can email the registrar at Doss and get a transcript with your hours and tail numbers on it. It's on their website (I'd link it but I'm on my phone). Good luck!

It's mostly because guys with aeronautical ratings have to be winged for two years before going to upt. That puts you in 1LT territory right there. For non rated guys, I'm guessing that the dudes with the strongest packages have been around for a bit and have built a reputation.

Just from talking to the dudes who got picked up in FY16, I think PPLs and scores were the two biggest deciding factors last year by a long shot. I haven't seen the raw data you're talking about, but I would imagine it backs this up. I was fortunate enough to grab a slot last year, even though I had plenty working against me. I was on an age ETP at about 32 years old and, honestly, outside of picking up DG out of the BUFF FTU, I felt like my bullets were pretty run of the mill for a rated guy. I was #1/3 out of the squadron and #2 out of 35 or so from the wing (I never saw the final strat, just heard the approximate numbers from the exec). Where I shined, I think was that I had a PPL and my test scores. My AFOQT and PCSM scores both took a nose dive after I commissioned so I studied my ass of and retook both. Despite feeling like a douche taking the AFOQT as, you know, someone who already qualified as an officer, I walked out with a 97/98/94/96/82 and a 96 PCSM when all was said and done. I know for a fact there were guys out there with a better set of bullets and equal strats to me, so I'm pretty convinced the scores made a difference. In short, definitely check your AFOQT and PCSM scores if you're thinking of applying (and retake if you can/need to) and go get a PPL if you don't have one. I honestly think those are the two biggest keys to success all things considered. Good luck bros, and if anyone needs help with the age ETP thing or needs anything else just hit me up.

I know I would, as would most non-patch wearing downstairs types. I'm not sure how easy the EW suite in the Bone is to operate, but the stuff in the B-52 is antiquated beyond belief to the point where it still takes an additional crew member to operate all that stuff. Hell, we still need two guys downstairs just to wrangle in all of the offensive systems downstairs. That being said, the process of combining the qualifications for Radar/Nav and making dudes dual seat qual'd is a step towards consolidating alot of that. I went through the FTU not too long ago ('13-'14), and we were still on the old school mission planning-centric syllabus where the dude in the left seat was learning INU management and how to run a gravity bomb run, while the guy in the right seat was trying to shack his timing and dead reckon and all that. I never even flew with a targeting pod on my jet or had simulated LGBs in the system until I got to my ops squadron. Now, guys are running through the FTU primarily in the left seat getting just short of full up SNIPER qual'd and are better than some experienced dudes at taking a BOT 9-line. Their mission planning sucks and a lot of the dudes coudln't fly off of a chart to save their lives, but the skills they're learning are more applicable to what we're moving towards with 1760 in the bay/CONECT/all the data link upgrades, and a lot of it is based on what you guys have been doing now that we're finally starting to catch up to the rest of the CAF and move out of the "let's fly a maneuvering gravity bomb run like we're dodging SA-2s over Hanoi" mentality. Who knows how far off it is or if it'll actually play out, but once they start pumping money into us with this whole "arsenal truck" thing, I can see the BUFF going to an OSO/DSO set up real quick, with the crossover guys with B-1 time leading the way.

Negative. Nav and Radar are only checklist positions for the right and left seat now, though. You come out of the FTU qual'd in both the radar/nav seats. That being said, the inexperienced dude generally sits right seat and the experienced dude takes the left still. Edubs are edubs. They're still in a world by themselves.

Dude, like everyone else has been saying, don't let some recruiter push you around. It sounds like they've bit hitting the blue kool aid a little too hard. If it looks bad for the squadron for you to turn down a selection, then maybe she shouldn't put arbitrary requirements on you. If you still feel like fighting that battle, dip your toe into the world of Air Force queep for a minute and reference AFI36-2013, which is what governs the OTS selection process. https://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_a1/publication/afi36-2013/afi36-2013.pdf Nowhere in that document or on the AF Form 56 does it say you're required to apply for any specialty you're not interested in. I'd politely bring that up and, if she still wants to be a douche about it, move on to a new recruiter. You could always try to push up her chain, but even if you get your way it's just going to make her resentful and less willing to work with you. Technically, she's within her rights to not submit your application because she doesn't think you'd make a good officer due to that, it's just a really shitty reason to pull that card and she should choke herself. Its your life, not hers. Your scores probably aren't that great, but the good news is you can retake the tests. Even if you don't, scores are only one component of your application and there's a long list of people that have gone on to pilot training with scores people would generally consider less than ideal. I'd still encourage you to apply if you can find a recruiter that will submit on your terms and let the board decide, but otherwise I think you've got the right idea in biding your time a little bit. Declining a selection for a job that you've listed is going to DQ you from future boards unless you get a waiver which most recruiters probably aren't going to push for (As opposed to turning down something you didn't list that they offered you anyway. That's totally kosher.) It'll give you time to study, retest, fly towards your PPL and get super smart on the whole process so you can submit a baller application. The PPL isn't mandatory, but I think it will help quite a bit based on the way things have been going. It won't necessarily pay huge dividends in UPT or anything, but having a license exempts your from IFS. That means the Air Force doesn't have to pay up for you to go to Pueblo and it saves money and time, thus making you a more attractive candidate. Plus, the boost you'll get on your PCSM is a nice bonus. Finally, just a plug from personal experience, if you do end up pushing with this recruiter and her absurdness, there are worse things that can happen to you than getting picked up as a CSO or something. I had a crappy GPA but a strong overall application and ended up wtih a CSO/Nav slot at 28 years old. I've done some awesome shit in the Air Force, had a blast, got the chance to apply for UPT once I was in and got picked up with an age waiver at 31. That may not be the route for you and that's more than okay, but keep that in the back of your nugget if push comes to shove with all of this. Where there's a will there's away, you know, and if you get smart enough on stuff you can make some crazy stuff happen. Good luck and if you have any questions PM me.

Awesome man, grats! Keep in touch. I'll be down there in October.

Yeah it was one of those automated emails from vMPF. Got it at 0900. Your miliage may vary though since im on an age etp so i dont know if everyone is gonna get the same email if they got picked up. That being said, my leadership knew (and was pissed afpc ruined the surprise haha) so the list is out there.

Got an assignment notification via vMPF this morning to Laughlin!

Same deal as Bluedevil. Wing exec. Goes to show you how reliable rumors are. I'm just going to go to work and try not to think about it lest I croak from anticipation.

Jesus bro. Way to scare the shit out of me. For AD bros, for AD bros: Hearing that 19 Feb is going to be the day.

I think this whole "90+ PCSM only" thing is almost a self-fulfilling prophecy. Word of stuff like that gets out, which determines who commanders think is competitive, which drives strats and pushlines, which drives selection. It also ends up pushing a lot of guys with lower PCSMs out of the mix because they're discouraged from applying, or don't even submit a package because they don't feel like they have a shot. That's how you wind up with this perception that PCSM is a huge driving force behind selection. Opinion only. We all know that someone's ability to be a pilot doesn't hinge on the fact that they can't sit at a tiny little table (seriously, that table was tiny) and jerk a wobbly joystick (sts) around better than the next dude. I think the board knows that too, which is why they have a board and they don't just stick us all on an excel spreadsheet, sort by PCSM score and blast out a selection notice. I think if you made it through the process and look strong on paper but don't have a astronomical score like that, your chances are probably just as good as the next guy's. But hey, we'll see in February right?

Anyone heard any juicy rumors or whatnot? I'm just patiently waiting over here. I haven't heard anything as far as my age waiver, which I guess I'll take as a good sign two weeks out from the board. Still, the silence is eerie.

I'd press depending on the strength of the rest of your package (sts). Correct me if I'm talking out of line anyone, but if you're a non-select you can just try again the next year after doing what you need to do to improve your scores. You might be offered an RPA slot even if you didn't apply, but you can turn that down penalty free. You never know if you don't try. As for me, I can't tell if this is good or bad news. I'm going to bat with a 94 PCSM and a 97 AFOQT pilot score, but I'm also waiting on an age waiver to clear AFPC. If they have enough qualified candidates, that probably doesn't spell good news for me.

Rank is based on performance, like BoneWso said. That being said, training isn't an individual sport. The dudes you see screwing their buddies over are the guys that horde information trying to get a leg up or (like in ATIS spectacularly entertaining example of douchebaggery) kissing up to instructors to make themselves look better than their peers. Its hard to grasp once you're in that environment since the natural inclination is that you want to be the "best of the best of the best, sir" and its "survival of the fittest", but after a while you learn to depend on each other and work together to get through the gauntlet. Helping guys out isn't going to sabotage you...the program is set up so that the strong guys that help their bros rise to the top. Some guys never figure that out though, and stick out like a sore thumb as they work on their chart in the corner not letting anyone peek over their shoulder while the rest of the class works together.

I still can't believe you found the time to do that. Go study for your ES checkride, Level 69 Dungeon Master. (But thanks for the gouge, as always) Also, 28s are awesome. Drop night isnt here yet, but I know at least one guy near the top of our class is honed in on them along with at least a couple more in the top-third. Interestingly enough, rumors have been floating around that our drop is going to be pretty Strike Eagle heavy and only one of our top 3 dudes is interested at all. If you're not already at NASP, you'll figure out pretty quick that everyone starts out breathing fire and screaming they'll settle for nothing less than an F-15E. Then T-6s role around and dudes figure out they hate pulling Gs. Then you get capes briefs on other aircraft that sound pretty awesome. Then you get guys who decide that the b-course sounds like way too much asspain, or that the community doesn't sound like their cup of tea. By the time its all done, its a toss up on what guys want to go where and where they stand. Its impossible to predict and the only no-shit way to get what you want is to do your best, don't ###### over your bros and have a good attitude.

Yeah, I don't think AirForceOTS would be the best place to take ROTC questions. Just a hunch.

Massive thanks for all of the input. A half-hour commute would be pretty nasty when you're talking about leaving the house at about 0445. That's what I was afraid of. I've got plenty of time to work out the details and hash it out with her -- she's only going to be down here for a year or so anyway when its all said and done. As hyper-obsessive about her career as she can be, fortunately she's a pretty reasonable lady underneath it all. PM inbound strategicnap.

Necro bump. I'm set to report to OTS at the end of the month and I'll be cruising on in to Pensacola in May to begin my wait for nav school. Long story short, the spousal unit just graduated from nursing school in August of 2011 and plans on hanging around back home in Fort Worth to work out a year with her current job before joining me down in Florida some time in September. The tentative plan, on my end, is to grab a cheap pad for about six months and move into something more wife-friendly once she rolls into town. She's been scoping out the employment prospects down there, and I guess the best place for her to continue her line of work is in the hospital in Mobile (because its the nearest Level 1 trauma center or something like that). This all sounds fine and good, but I'm wondering what the living situation is out maybe 30 minutes to the West of town -- somewhere halfway between Mobile and PCola. On Google Maps, anyway, it looks like there isn't shit out there. This is all tentative on her finding employment, of course, and is way the hell down the road, but I'm wondering if its actually a viable plan -- like if there's any kind of actual housing out there or if the commute is just going to kick my ass during UNT. She's flexible and willing to work closer to Pensacola, sure, but I figure if shes happy that's one less thing to worry about. Any guidance?

Bingo. I called the unit when I heard about this a month back and got this response. Maybe somewhere down the line they'll hire a guy or two, but as of now they aren't.

You're right. Nevermind. Oh god.