Prozac

I appreciate this sentiment. On the flip side, there were an awful lot of Democratic voters who vilified anyone voting for Trump as a racist, fascist hypocrite. You and I may not agree on much here, but I think we are on the same page when I hear you argue against defining large swaths of Americans by actions of people off in the fringes. Thanks for being a voice of reason here.

I heard JFK Jr didn’t show up at the rally the other day. Must’ve been disappointing. Sorry man. Silver lining: I heard Michael Jackson DID make an appearance. Jealous!

Know of at least three at my company. Probably significantly more than that. All had some army C-12/fixed wing time. A couple did some time at the regionals. The other one spent time with Dynamic (civ ISR) and then ACMI before ending up at a career airline.

In addition to seeing a lot of this stuff posted here, it is quite common to see amongst airline captains. No shit. Usually older men who’ve decided Fox News is now part of the Marxist plot & have decided to place their trust in some alt right “media” source.

No. CDC guidelines state that while unvax’d must quarantine after “close contact” with a positive case, the requirement doesn’t apply to vaccinated individuals. You might disagree, but this is the current reality.

Exactly this. At this point, I’m far less fired up about the vaccines and far more concerned about the conspiracy theories presented as fact and spreading through conservative newsfeeds like wildfire. In the past few weeks I’ve heard grown, educated, professional men and women argue that the vaccines cause AIDS, that they contain alien DNA, that Pfizer is not actually approved, that the vaccines have directly caused tens of millions of deaths, that the “mainstream” media along with every world government have conspired in some sort of massive coverup, that there are thousands of tiny microchips in each vaccine dose, that it will magnetize you…..and so on, and so on. The scary thing is that this shitstorm of disinformation has become so pervasive, many people whom I know well and respect are willing to believe even some of the most bonkers theories. True story: My kid’s best friend’s dad is a firefighter in a major metropolitan department. REALLY good dude. Give you the shirt off his back. Staunchly conservative & I respect that. However, he truly believes the whole microchip thing. He’s an otherwise smart guy who’s trusted media sources have duped him into buying into crazy. There are a LOT of Americans like him. Now he is losing his job based on a batshit crazy conspiracy theory. My heart goes out to his family, who will likely be forced to out of their home. You can debate the logic of civil vaccine mandates & make a pretty good argument against them. They are reality for many people however & it sucks to see good people duped into making a bad decision based on intellectually dishonest arguments. The truth is, the organization you work for (civil or mil) probably wants you to get vaccinated because they aren’t interested in taking the productivity hit when an unvaccinated individual gets sick or is exposed to someone who is. My particular company has had one person die of COVID, a handful spend extended periods in intensive care, hundreds of confirmed COVID-19 cases with various degrees of severity, and a couple dozen guys out on LTD with “long haul” COVID symptoms. About 80 percent of our workforce is now vaccinated. Ya know how many have died of the vaccine? Zero. Ya know how many have been hospitalized or gone out on disability because of vaccine reactions? Zero. Ya know how many vaccinated individuals have had to be quarantined because of contact tracing? Zero. Vaccination makes a lot of sense for most organizations. Disagree? Fine, but in a free country your employer is also free to set its own health policies (the courts have almost unanimously upheld this). Don’t be the guy that gets fired based on a conspiracy theory. Also, don’t be the guy that contributes to the problem by amplifying crazy.

It’s clear that there is a contingency who don’t want to be convinced and will never be convinced. They will continue to proclaim the mountains of evidence that these vaccines are safe and effective as “fake news” from suspect sources (even as they themselves embrace some of the most biased and self serving “sources” in existence). It’s time to call a spade a spade. There are people who will lose their livelihoods because they have chosen to dig in their heels and embrace some truly insane theories. I don’t feel bad for them. I do feel bad for their families and for what this shocking display of mass ignorance means for society as a whole. But if it makes you feel better, go ahead and blame the people who attempted to shine a light on crazy when you have to deal with the consequences of your own decisions.

Maybe it wasn’t an issue until the conspiracy nuts made it one?

Look, if people want to have a real conversation, I’m all for it. If they, however, want to spew lies, mistruths, and misinformation that has been debunked for months, they should be prepared to have their shit jumped upon. If I came out of the blue and said there was a secret ingredient in Cheerios that cures COVID and makes the male member grow by at least one full inch, I’d expect a vigorous and stinging response. Cheerios don’t cure COVID btw. Still hoping for some previously unknown long term effects on the other thing.

Wrong. https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/you-asked-we-answered-are-pfizers-comirnaty-and-biontech-covid-19-vaccines-the-same-or-different There are people out there who are seeking real, legitimate, actual useful information with which to make a decision. You’re spewing out chaff, muddying the waters, and contributing to the dumbing down of this country by insisting on continuing to post this garbage.

No. An order is an order. Doesn’t matter whether it’s “take that hill” or “take that vaccine”. A legal order must be complied with regardless of wider “social disagreement”. The whole concept of a professional military depends on it. I might be inclined to agree if death were the only possible negative outcome of a COVID infection. However, the effects of this virus run the gamut and it can absolutely incapacitate previously healthy individuals, especially those who are unvaccinated. I gave an example of an instance where that actually played out. Taking an aircraft carrier off the chessboard is a big fucking deal last time I checked. Does it matter? That’s the world in which we live. CPDLC doesn’t make a C-17 any better at its mission, but it sure makes the planners’ jobs easier. Don’t conflate my stance on military vaccination policies with the wider argument going on about mandates in society in general. While I’m a firm supporter of these vaccines, I do find civil mandates to be problematic and believe there are probably better ways to sell this to the population as a whole. Different story for those currently serving.

Disagree on both counts. Military members should be able to cut their enlistments/commitments short because of “social disagreement”? So nobody had to go to Iraq? If I recall there might’ve been just a bit of “social disagreement” over that one. Sorry, if you’re willing to lay down your life for your country, rolling up your sleeve shouldn’t be that big a hardship. To your second point, covid is ABSOLUTELY a readiness issue. It can directly affect a unit, as we saw when a whole CVN crew was beached early on in the pandemic. Even when it’s not sweeping rampantly through the ranks, vaccination status can mean the difference between quickly and easily deploying personnel where they’re needed. Bottom line: this is part of what a military member signs up for. Suck it up or suffer the consequences. The whiners and foot stompers are part of the sniveling snowflake (to borrow a favorite conservative term) culture that is the last thing we want in our military. Good riddance to them.

KIO with this bullshit. You’re focusing on semantics and legalese that don’t mean shit. The Pfizer vaccine is approved and no longer experimental. Period. Dot. Quit acting like a toddler. If you don’t want the vaccine, fine. But man up and accept the consequences instead of being a whiny bitch.

Round and round with some of you guys. What do you think would happen to you if you refused any other vaccine? It’s absolutely a legal order & regardless of your wider views on civil mandates, I expect members of the United States military services to follow the legal orders of the officers appointed over them. If you can’t do that, GTF out or suffer the consequences. Don’t expect me or anyone else to have any sympathy or listen to your lame bullshit excuses.

Hadn’t given it all that much thought to be honest. Came across this op-ed while attempting to find out how many members of Congress are currently serving: https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/06/02/members-of-congress-shouldnt-serve-in-the-military/ Definitely makes a good case against concurrent military and political service.

Yeah, there is a certain age/generational demographic that seems to be attracted to this particular plan of action. For some reason, many seem to insist on buying the cow (often multiple cows, one after another), regardless of the price of the milk. To be honest, I don’t get it either, but I guess we all have our proclivities.

There are batshit crazy nut jobs on both sides of this argument. As usual, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Given the relative bias of this forum, I usually find myself arguing a more liberal point of view here. Many of my friends and family might argue that I’m a closet conservative however. Good on you for calling out bullshit when you see it……BUT…I still think there is a good case for continuing to try and push vaccination rates up (note: does not mean I support gov mandates) even though both sides have demonstrated their ability to entrench themselves in their positions regardless of fact or reason.

Three easy steps: Move to the Philippines. Marry LBFM thirty years your junior. Give middle finger to prior ex’s. Might seem a bit extreme but this is a well worn path my friends.

I have mixed feelings on government mandates. I agree that, although supported by precedent, they are rather heavy handed. On the flip side, the Biden mandate appears to have largely worked, even though it has yet to go into effect. My employer has seen rates go from the upper 60% range to ~90% in the last several weeks. From a purely political perspective, if you’re Biden & you believe your approval rating/chances for re-election rest on beating COVID, it makes good sense. I agree that it also raises many questions regarding personal freedoms. Business on the other hand, should have every right to mandate vaccination if they believe it makes a good business case. The travel and hospitality industry in particular has good reason for wanting employees vaccinated. Other businesses do as well since COVID strains can be highly contagious and take swaths of their employees away from being productive for weeks at a time. Anti-employer vaccine mandate mandates like the one in Texas are absolutely stupid & go against traditional conservative values. As far as being concerned about unvaccinated kids, I don’t think that many of us are worried that our children will be hobbled or killed by the virus. What I am worried about is taking my kid out of school for weeks at a time or, worse yet, schools closing down completely, which could happen as a result of a major outbreak. The LAST thing I want to see is another year spent trying to help my kid deal with on-line schooling.

Ok. I can understand and appreciate your point about left leaning media pushing the “fear porn”. Sensationalism and outrage sells. That’s the world we live in. I think most who engage here consider themselves thinking human beings & regardless of political tilt, are looking to sift through the chaff & find something a little closer to the truth. Along those lines, there are plenty of right leaning sources and go in the complete opposite direction, discounting any threat at all and insisting society should move on, unencumbered by any need to bend itself to the realities of this virus at all (curiously, while also making the case that this was a brilliant bio-weapon, released by a China on the brink of world domination). I think it’s safe to say that the truth lies somewhere in between those extremes. It’s also a safe bet that CNN and FOX won’t be losing their influence anytime soon, and individuals who value critical thought will have to share their world with those less adept at the process. You indirectly asked the question: why, if I am vaccinated/protected, do I care what others do wrt vaccination/masking/etc? Well, I’ll tell you & I do not intend to be condescending or smug here at all. Despite a metric fuck ton of misinformation to the contrary, vaccines, while not perfect, make you many times less likely to contract COVID. If you DO happen to have a breakthrough case, being vaccinated means you are less likely to spread the virus to others. Here is just one of many studies: https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2021/10/13/do-coronavirus-vaccines-prevent-transmission-of-the-virus You may argue otherwise, but you are highly unlikely to convince me that the vaccines are not efficacious, nor are you likely to convince me that they are unsafe. So why do I care if you’re vaccinated? Because I may have to sit next to you on an airplane for nine hours. I may have to shop in the same supermarket where you fingered the peaches (sts) fifteen minutes earlier. I may have to work in the same office as you. I may have to stand in line at the DMV with you. You get the idea. Now, being a relatively young, fit, healthy person, am I worried about a severe or life threatening case of COVID-19? Not particularly. But I have a non-vaccinated child under 12 at home who I am worried about. I have an immunocompromised parent whom I see often that I am worried about. I have a grandmother about to turn 100 who I am worried about and who’s upcoming party I would dearly like to attend. So, yes I do care if you are vaccinated because your chances of having an infection are less, thereby reducing the chance you will infect me. If you ARE infected and vaccinated, your chances of spreading your infection to me are STILL much lower.

I'm sure that a lot of the airlines have guys who have millions in the bank, have side hustles and are living on a military pension that could flick their Airline job away like a annoying fruit fly at any moment. Not all of them have the stereotypical three kids from two ex-wives and a boat to pay for. You might be shocked by how many have MORE than two ex wives. Also, despite their hyper inflated views on their ability to act as their own financial planners, many, many of the “old heads” have done poorly in the markets & despite making millions over their careers, are not in a great retirement position. Add on the fact that regardless of personal financial situations, a majority of dudes in this business are blatant money whores, and when push comes to shove, I don’t think you’ll see too many leaving the career early. For the record, I agree with a lot of Lord Ratner’s post. At least as far as pilots are concerned, CEOs do not really have to force the vaccine issue. That will be, and is being done for them by foreign governments. Even most “domestic” fleets regularly see Canada & Mexico & there won’t be many places to hide for those who wish to remain unvaccinated.

Who the fuck cares if they had comorbidities? Seriously. There’s a lot of fat/diabetic/immunocompromised/otherwise unhealthy people in this country. If they would’ve survived had it not been for COVID, why does it matter? Are their lives worth less because they’re fat? Sorry, but I’m not ok living in a society that discounts the value of human life based on general health. One of the things that makes us human is having some compassion for one another, regardless of Darwinian attributes. If we’re willing to write off the weak and the sick, then we’re no more evolved than fucking gorillas.

You’re not the first to recommend that to me. On my list for sure.

Did anybody ever really know what it was about? After several years of flying sorties over that place & seeing very little substantive change I came to the conclusion that the only reason I, or anyone else was there was for another OPR/EPR bullet. The failure of leadership in Afghanistan lays bare what happens when an organization allows itself to fall victim to blatant and unabashed careerism. The only “accomplishments” we can claim are XXX lbs offloaded, XXX TICs supported, XXX Enemy Combatants (we hope) KIA, etc. etc. NOBODY from the four stars down ever REALLY wanted to tackle the questions of what we were doing there or what the end game was. Just do your tour, write your bullets, get your promotions, retire and let somebody else deal with the hard questions. I have no dog in the fight anymore, but as Joe Bagadonuts taxpayer (and as someone with many friends continuing to serve……..Thank You. You have a much higher bullshit threshold than I), I truly hope there is a reckoning in the military over the next decade (a la post-Vietnam) & that our future leaders can internalize our failures and codify solutions that will ensure we think a lot harder about how we expend this nation’s treasure in future endeavors.

Thanks for the clarification. I think we mostly agree & I probably read a little too much into your earlier post. 🍻