Prozac

“Why Are There So Many Bad Bosses” Interesting podcast from the Freakanomics guys that’s applicable here. Basically confirms what we’ve all known forever: Not everyone is cut out for (or wants) a management/leadership role. Good listen: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/freakonomics-radio/id354668519?mt=2&i=1000604426212

Did you eat a lot of paste as a child?

A ten inch long missile? Are we sure it wasn’t just BQZip’s mom’s vibrator?

Awww shucks. And here I thought the discussion was headed in a positive direction for once. So let me get this straight: If I choose not to attend church, I must be a socialist/communist? Is that the crux of your argument? ‘Cause I gotta say, you sound like the totalitarian prick here. ‘Yeah, it’s a free country…..until you choose a path different from mine’. If you’re an officer I feel bad for the poor saps who have to follow your orders. You must just be a joy to work with. Hopefully you aren’t in charge of Jack shit. Please accept this small gift to enjoy at your leisure:

Absolutely correct. All of that works as advertised & is well worth the time & investment. But it still misses the mark somewhat when it comes to the wider community. I’ve talked & interacted with a lot of interesting people I would have otherwise never met at cycling, car enthusiast, aviation, country club, and other events/clubs. But at the end of the day, the kinds of people that are interested in the things I’m interested in tend to be somewhat homogeneous (Biff, look that word up before you pass judgment 🤣). I think there is probably some utility in casting a wider net & putting people with disparate interests together on a semi-regular basis.

I think there is definitely a lot of truth here. Problem is, many of us are turned off by organized religion for one reason or another. Not interested in debating the finer points of religious beliefs here because people tend to have already formed very strong opinions on the subject, but suffice to say that my family has tried several different churches/denominations/non-denominations and have not found any of them to be representative of our values. I know I’m not alone in this. Fellowship doesn’t necessarily have to be about religion though. I sometimes wonder if a non-religious community center/definitely-not-a-church type of venue could serve the same role. Encourage the community to come together, talk about common goals and values, no phones(!), serve some bbq and local microbrews at the end, maybe host some community service events, but no religious bent, no judgment, no exclusion. Do it one afternoon a month instead of making everybody get up early every damn Sunday & I’ll bet you’d get a significant chunk of most communities at least talking to each other somewhat regularly.

I mean, I feel like it’s pretty well known that the US tends to be more religious than most other developed nations. Having lived in Europe and traveled extensively, my personal experience jives with that. Plenty of literature out there supporting that idea if you care to look. Here’s an interesting piece from Pew Research to whet your appetite: https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/07/20/the-global-god-divide/

Can you explain how most other developed nations on the planet who are far less Christian/religious than the United States have fared so much better WRT positive outcomes for young people/far fewer mass slaughter events? I would agree that good parenting is vital to successfully raising the next generation. I strongly disagree that that requires a religious bent. Good parenting is just ‘common sense’ as you put it….no God required (but I have no problem if you believe religion should play a role in your household - just don’t foist it on mine please).

Sounds like a very good reason to listen to his lawyers who are undoubtedly telling him to avoid public comment. He just can’t help himself. He may well become a martyr but that will be just as problematic for Republicans as it will for Democrats.

He should hire some serious minded, professional lawyers, take their advice, STFU, and try not to steal the limelight from Republican candidates who are actually serious about wanting to govern this country. I’d honestly much rather listen to their ideas than DJT ironically whining about how unfair life’s been to him. Alas, he is who he is and he’ll be making sure he’s stealing the spotlight for the next year and a half. 😐 Yes, the media will play a large role, but part of that is Trump’s own fault through his constant quest for notoriety. At this point, I could honestly not care less whether he is prosecuted….he just needs to go away. There’s got to be some sort of reality show he could host where he could grab all the pussy he ever wanted and not have to worry about the monotony of things like daily intelligence briefings & what’s actually in the constitution. ‘The Bachelor; Ex-Presidents Edition’ maybe?

Not sure where you’re getting that from. I freely admit Joe Biden is far from perfect. But he’s the result of the democratic process. I wish we had a Klobuchar or a Gabbard instead, but we don’t. I didn’t vote for Joe in the primary but that’s who we got anyway. At the end of the day, he still represents my values better than Trump did and probably better than DeSantis. (Remember; I’m a guy who thinks government has a bigger role to play than conservatives do. Why would I vote for someone who opposes my values?) At the end of the day, Biden’s likely where my vote is going even if he isn’t perfect. Does that mean I think DeSantis can’t govern? Of course not. If he’s elected, he will be my president and he’ll probably even do some things I agree with. I just don’t understand why some here don’t understand why someone who leans D would be reluctant to vote R. I’ve had the exact same conversation with liberal friends over the last few years who couldn’t understand why anyone could vote for Trump. Lifelong Republicans sure as shit weren’t going to vote for Hillary and they were smart enough not to give her the election by throwing their votes away to a third party. This concept shouldn’t be that hard to grasp.

You’ve got a tendency to try and take things into the weeds when someone is trying to give you the 35K ft view. I’ll try and articulate my point one more time: There is never going to come a time in this country when half of the population suddenly realizes the error of their ways, has a mass epiphany, and starts voting the way you think they should, no matter how hard you try to convince them. Your voting choices are just as much of a head scratcher to them as theirs are to you. Whatever side you are on (neither your personal views, nor mine are pertinent to the point I’m trying to make), you can choose one of two paths: A. You can lament the path the country is on, blame others for it, and scream bloody murder every time you perceive that a poor choice has been made. This is easy and may lead to a short term release of pleasurable endorphins (we all love to “own” our opponents). But in the end, it accomplishes very little. In fact, it just further divides us and leads to further dysfunction. B. You can take some responsibility for our shared experience and understand that while you are unlikely to change many “others’” minds, there is plenty you can do at local and grassroots levels that, taken in aggregate, can lead to positive change. Things like going to school board meetings, engaging with your city council, participating in local and primary elections, writing letters to your representatives, etc, still have a major role to play in our democracy. They take time and effort, are unlikely to lead to rapid change, and almost certainly won’t get you everything you want. In other words, option B is the hard road. But it’s the only productive way forward for us. Or, you can keep beating your head against a wall trying to convince everyone you disagree with that you’re right. Up to you. I get it man. You’re fired up, confident in your convictions, and want to take on the world. We had a great label for the piss and vinegar crowd at a previous unit: “All thrust, no vector”. I appreciate and admire your vigor….just make sure you point it in a productive direction (STS).

One of the more thoughtful and insightful posts I’ve seen in a while. Some truth here…

Nice.

Dude, we can go back and fourth about what Joe Biden or Donald Trump or anyone else has or has not done for this country. That’s not the point. The point is to recognize that (shockingly) not everyone thinks like you. While Ron DeSantis may very well be doing right by the people of Florida, that’s not necessarily what the people of New York, or Detroit, or Asheville, or Boise want or need. Somebody is going to need to make some compromises. No…scratch that….everybody is going to need to make some compromises. You can recognize that fact and act accordingly and vote for whomever you feel works best for you, or you can continue to play victim, focus on all the wrongs the other side has committed, and blame all your woes on the other “side” (whoever they are). Which philosophy do you think is better for the nation (not to mention one’s own mental health)?

You’re describing an ideal world that doesn’t, and will never exist. Politics has always been somewhat dirty/disingenuous/cynical/whatever you want to call it. Politicians will always be politicians and there will always be some element of holding your nose when you vote. This is still miles better than the alternative. I will also happily vote for Joe Biden if Trump is the Republicans’ nominee and he’ll likely be my choice even over DeSantis, Hailey, or many of the other Republican front runners (although I am open to what they have to say), simply because of the fact that I tend to align with more D policies than R. Not all policies…there’s certainly plenty of room for improvement on both sides. But more. That’s how it goes in a democracy. There are millions of voters with disparate interests and agendas. Recognize that you’re never going to be totally pleased by any one candidate and that your own interests, no matter how righteous you think you are, are only a tiny fraction of the country’s as a whole. No one is being a coward here. We are simply accepting reality and acting in the manner that suits our needs and desires in the best way possible.

Free financial/marital/medical advice from senior captains?

And there it is. The explanation for white males being an overwhelming majority of professional pilots must be that white males are more inherently suited to the job than any other group. I’m willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this is not what you really think, but you should understand what it sounds like when you make this argument. Same with the pro sports analogies. I think we can all agree that there are certain physical and genetic attributes that allow people to perform at the ultra high levels of professional athletes. There are absolutely not similar limitations for performance in a cockpit. Are certain individuals more suited to flying airplanes? Of course. But you won’t convince me that the requisite skills skew to the tune of 95% white male. We got to affirmative action/DEI/whatever you want to call it for a reason. There absolutely are barriers for certain groups that shouldn’t be there. I agree that in a perfect world we would all be judged, in the words of Dr. King, by the content of our character vs the color of our skin or any other physical attribute. Unfortunately, that is not the world in which we inhabit. There are still groups that need help breaking breaking barriers because people are still shitty. DEI is an admittedly imperfect band aid for the real world. If people want to debate better solutions, fine, but don’t blow sunshine up everybody’s ass by pretending we live in a post racism/sexism world.

Wait a minute! I resemble that remark. Actually happy to continue the fight. I just think we’ve stumbled into the airways when we should’ve kept it in the MOA. Like I said, happy to continue the discussion as I think there is a lot of nuance and detail on both sides that all parties may not have considered. Perhaps we should start a diversity/affirmative action thread?

Disagree. I specifically asked for statistical evidence and not one-off anecdotal examples. Atlas absolutely got that hire wrong. Doesn’t change the fact that aviation has never been more safe. Blaming “diversity” for perceived a decline in safety that in reality is nonexistent is absolutely counterproductive.

Because I think it’s unfair to folks who are looking for real, useful information for you and I to turn this into a left/right shitthrowing contest & I regret engaging in the first place. I will answer your last question though. How does diversity improve airline safety? It doesn’t. That’s not the point of diversity. Diversity opens up the career to people for whom it may have been closed in the past. If it doesn’t harm safety (and despite the one off example you presented, statistically, aviation has gotten safer, not less safe since these hiring policies were implemented) then why is that a bad thing?

Too much thread derailment here & I fully admit to my role in it. Happy to continue this discussion in another thread. Let’s get back to helping good dudes & dudettes make career decisions & get hired.

I agree 100%. I worked at Giant for a stint & still have many friends there. I was shocked when that crash occurred & even more shocked when I heard about the circumstances. Epic fail on Atlas’s part. Can you think of any accidents that were caused by white pilots that had no business at the helm of a transport category aircraft? I can. Unfortunately, people slip through training for myriad reasons. In my experience, we’re doing a better job weeding them out now than we ever have before. Again, show me a statistic that says “diversity” is making us less safe.

So here’s where we diverge from the “why are these issues happening” discussion and get into the whole philosophy of diversity thing. I didn’t really want to engage earlier but I think this is important. Do you think there was ever a “meritocracy hiring system”? I don’t. There was a good ol’ boy network, but never a meritocracy. One of the benefits of of diversity is tight there in the description: you diversify your hiring pool. You end up with a larger pool of qualified candidates than you would’ve had before. Does it work perfectly? Of course not. But neither did the old system. You don’t think Billy Bob ever got put in the front seat of an F-4 or 727 because his brother-in-law knew the chief pilot & not because he was the best guy for the job? It’s all well and good to want to hire the best candidate but often times that’s an unrealistic pipe dream. Always has been. Always will be. For the folks arguing that we are less safe today because “diversity”, I challenge you to prove it. Don’t give me some one off, anecdotal example. Show me statistics that say commercial aviation is getting progressively less safe. Because all of the evidence that I’ve seen shows that we are far safer now than we were when Jimbo the Chief Pilot had the sole and final say on who got hired.

I am very much in favor of hiring qualified candidates, period. If unqualified people are in fact being hired, and lapses in safety are resulting, then that absolutely needs to be investigated. I’ve seen exactly zero actual evidence presented here to support that case. What does appear to be happening is that certain people would like to frame this issue to fit their own personal culture war narratives. This will not help us fix the problem.