Prozac

I’ve heard this from a lot of folks and seen a lot of similar Facebook posts. Yet there never seems to be any proof to back these stories up. Care to provide some form of documentation that says this incident actually happened the way you claim it did?

So the President of the United States should be held to a (much) lower standard than an O6? Really? Because an unexpected crisis happened? (That there absolutely are OPLANs in place for) I kinda thought that WAS the job. We expect military leaders at all levels to be able to lead effectively in combat, where, famously, no plan survives the first contact with the enemy. They typically do a far better job adapting to adversity than this President has. There are many, many O6s out there that I would trust to do a better job leading the country than this draft dodger in chief. Some of you guys are giving this guy a pass for shit you’d NEVER tolerate from a wingman, co-pilot, squadron mate, or Commander. I can only imagine the some of the comments here if a Democrat were pulling half the shenanigans you’re willing to let slide with this reality TV clown. Look, I don’t expect lifelong conservatives with some very valid opposing world views to all of a sudden start singing Nancy Pelosi’s praises. Lord knows the Dems have plenty of their own issues. But to continue to praise this sorry excuse for a human being as if he’s the second coming of Jesus and shrug off his obvious failures......sorry guys. I just don’t get it.

He certainly was.

Certainly not blaming Trump for Covid. However, his response was and continues to be an absolute shitshow. His initial reaction to the crisis was that it was a hoax invented by his political opponents. Wrong. Then it was just a few cases and would be down to zero shortly (just as long as cruise ships with infected American citizens on board were kept safely offshore). Wrong. Then it was ban travel from China. Right, but too little too late (Dems we’re wrong here as well....I’ll give you that). Then it was it’ll be gone with the warmer weather. Wrong. Then it was anyone who wants a test gets a test. Wrong. Then it was shutdown the economy, but people protesting the shutdown were freedom fighting patriots. Talk about mixed messaging (but it wasn’t really mixed....Trump obviously didn’t really want to shutdown). Then it was open back up. But it was too early and without adequate safeguards like a national policy on distancing, masks, testing, or contact tracing. Then it was (and still is) Hydroxychloroquine. (Still) Wrong. Then it was inject yourself with disinfectant. What the actual fuck? Then it was let Doctors Fauci and Brix take over for a bit to appease those elitist science people, but, wink wink, we all really know Faici’s a quack. More mixed messaging. Then it was masks are stupid. Wrong. Then it was if we stop testing, we’ll stop seeing so many cases. Well, right, I guess, but sounds suspiciously like the exact same logic my 9 year old uses when he’s trying to convince me something’s not his fault. It would be laughable if it wasn’t so sad. Trump’s response has been disjointed and ineffective at best and in reality has been nothing short of pathetic. We have some of the highest rates of infection and mortality amongst developed nations and have become a laughingstock around the world while we should be leading the way. We have the gold standard disease research and control organization in the world with the CDC, and yet here we are with our thumbs up our collective asses. What else could the administration have done? Well, how about taking things seriously from day one for a start? Trump should’ve leveled with Americans early on about the magnitude of the disaster and the fact that we would have to make sacrifices to effect the recovery. He should’ve worn a mask in public and practiced the distancing and other protocols espoused by his own administration, demonstrating the practices Americans would need to use to get through this mess. Isn’t that what leaders are supposed to do? His administration should’ve spearheaded a massive testing and contract tracing program early on that would expedite a safe reopening of the economy. I do give them some credit for working with Congress to pass the initial stimulus bill, but what about the long term future of our economy? There is about to be a housing and lending crisis as thousands of Americans, unable to pay rent, are about to be evicted. What will become of all of the small business unable to cover their costs? Will we just let them fail? They employ half of all American workers. What becomes of them? We needed and continue to need bold ideas from our leaders to address this calamity. Instead we get deflection, excuses, and reality TV gibberish. So, no, I don’t blame Trump for COVID. But I absolutely do blame him for being completely and utterly ineffective when tested in battle. I guess he’ll try to blame it all on his bone spurs next.

Apart from Covid? Really? Isn’t handling a crisis an important measure of presidential leadership? Maybe THE most important measure? I can’t think of one recent president that hasn’t had to handle a major crisis. A savvy president will use the opportunity to band Americans together and cement his support (think W after Sep 11). All Trump had to do was pretend to take this seriously and encourage all Americans to come together and beat the virus. He’d be a shoe in for re-election right now if he’d done that. But Trump’s biggest weakness and his biggest failure is that he only sees himself as President of his own supporters. Politics for him is a zero sum game that involves vanquishing your opponent into oblivion rather than acknowledging that the other side is here to stay and compromise is the only path to stability and prosperity in a democratic society. His “fuck blue America” attitude will be his downfall and unfortunately he’s infected the whole republican party with it. He’s transformed the entire GOP into a cynical, xenophobic, isolationist shell of its former self and all of America will be worse off for a generation due to the damage he’s done. He spent three years lining your wallet? Well I guess that’s good for you. Me? Well call me a naive idealist but I expect much more out of the leader of the free world.

Just watch out for “Bracketville Bob”. If I remember right the speed limit went from 55 to something like 25 miles outside of town. Bob would pull you over for doing 26 and he just loved UPT students coming through on the weekends on the way to San Anton’. Damn that was a long time ago. Thanks for reminding me that I’m old Huggy.

So we disagree a bit on the continued importance of NATO and the US role in it, but I agree with you here. In addition to adding complexity and uncertainty to the alliance, NATO’s rapid expansion East almost certainly provoked the Russians into taking kinetic action in Georgia and Ukraine, as well as shadier actions in the Baltics. And that gave Putin all the pretense he needed to declare himself de-facto dictator.

I’ve been at the Airline thing for a few years now and here’s what I’ve learned on this subject. There are excellent aviators and sub par aviators that come from both military and civilian backgrounds. However, the military trains (for the most part) all of its pilots to a known standard. While there are a few who slip through the cracks, I think the range of skill levels of military trained people tends to be a fair bit tighter than for the group with purely civilian backgrounds. Of course “civilian background” encompasses a wide range and I’ve seen some absolutely shit hot pilots with backgrounds in aerobatics, firefighting, bush flying, and a wide range of truly impressive flying experience. But you can make fewer assumptions about a civ vs mil guy. I know I’m generalizing here but here’s a personal example: When I get paired with a person for training, if they are a prior mil aviator, I can generally expect them to show up prepared, practice good CRM, competently execute a V1 cut, and generally have my back in the sim. When paired with civ only guys, I’ve seen the gamut of skill levels, and significantly, a much larger percentage seem to approach training with trepidation rather than as an opportunity to learn and receive feedback. Like I said, I’ve seen some downright stellar aviators with pure civilian backgrounds and not trying to knock that group. My own experience tells me that the military puts out a more consistent product though.

nsplayer, I usually expect thoughtful, well thought out responses from you here. Which is why you need to do a self check on the old sarcasm detector my brother. 🤨😜

Kind of sounds to me like you’d like the Republican Party to offer up a better candidate. Democrats are never going to float your boat and that’s fine. BUT the Republicans offered up several candidates who would’ve been much better than Trump four years ago. But they let him hijack and forever change the face of the GOP. While this certainly allowed them to make gains with some traditionally blue voters, my guess is the last three and a half years have pushed away far more middle of the road voters as well as erase many of the gains in minority segments that more moderate and traditional Republicans rightly hoped to gain. I’m honestly saddened by this shift in the party because even a left leaning person like me could see that there was much to admire and even items I outright agreed with in the platform. The new platform is basically “fuck you lib”. Ok then. Guess who’s voting party line for the first time ever?

Good luck getting any work done in Italy. Don’t get me wrong. I had many great TDYs to Aviano and anyone who has the opportunity to be stationed there should absolutely jump on it. That said, ever try getting dip clearances or even filing a flight plan with the Italians? “A-sorry a-sir. The route-a you file-a.....it not-a available on-a Tuesdays after 1600 when there’s a full-a moon. Come-a back a-tomorrow.”

Wasn’t my first choice by a long shot. BUT he’s currently beating the incumbent from his basement. My (unsolicited and worth every penny you paid for it) opinion is that a LOT will hinge on his choice of running mate who will likely be the Dem nominee in 2024. A potential Biden Admin will face the massive economic downturn wrought by coronavirus and a bad choice could turn into a successful Tucker Carlson campaign next cycle. God help us all.

It is considered safe to mail passports, prescription drugs, driver’s licenses, and a litany of other sensitive documents. States like Washington and Oregon have been successfully 100% vote by mail for years. I’d reckon a vast majority of the posters on this board have voted by mail at one point or another. Is it a perfect process? Of course not. But voting in person can also be a clusterfuck a la Florida 2000. Trump’s claims are, as usual, baseless. He knows the higher the turnout, the worse the results will be for him. Voter suppression and/or postponing the election are just pathetic attempts to keep his campaign hopes alive.

I’ll just leave this here.

And herein lies the rub. It seems to be turning into an us vs. them world, bit the “them” is always more nuanced than the talking heads would have us believe. The two party system is far from perfect but it’s worked for a long time. It does depend though on the fundamental assumption that our fellow Americans, regardless of party affiliation, are NOT the enemy.

Whatever your politics, America. Fuck yeah.

Gripen maybe (still in production?). Low cost, buying from another neutral country, keeps production in Europe, has some NATO commonality.

Thanks FLEA. Assuming you meant to say Ian Bremmer (vice Brenner). I’ve read some of his work and tend to respect his positions even if I may not agree with all of them. I’ll look into his book.

Appreciate the discussion on the Nordic model but my intent wasn’t to derail the thread. Rather, I wanted to present an example of how flawed the debate process is in our society as of late. Media, whether “liberal” or “conservative” tends to present extreme examples of the other side as representative of what that side is advocating. The BLM protests are a great example. Liberal media seems to focus on and present long standing deficiencies in police departments as representative of all police, all the time. Conservative media seems to want to present all protesters as a highly organized ANTIFA mob bent on systemically burning down the suburbs now that they’ve gutted downtown Seattle and Minneapolis. Of course, neither narrative is true. Media is shaping the debate based on its own interest: increasing viewership through sensationalism. We are all being played here and in the process we are losing the ability to have an effective debate and worse, losing the ability to be civil and treat each other with respect. I may lean to the liberal side of the spectrum, but I don’t see my conservative friends as the enemy. Just like me, they want this country to be In a better place. We just happen to disagree at times on how to get there.

Fair enough Clark, but while you make a valid point about laying the blame for fascism/world conflict on the Western allies, the fact remains that we willingly vacated our seat at the table. When you do that, you don’t get to have a say in the conversation anymore. I see a similar trend recently. We’ve removed ourselves from international conversations about climate change, Iranian disarmament, and coronavirus response amongst others. We’ve pulled out of long-standing arms treaties, and we’re beginning to treat old allies more like adversaries. Not saying we might not have valid reasons for all of these things, but I’m afraid that the “I’m taking my ball and going home” attitude means we’re giving up on American influence all around the world. I also think we’ve simultaneously de emphasized “soft power”. I agree that it’s prohibitively expensive and morally problematic to deal with all the world’s problems With the American military. Yet the military budget continues to increase, while the state department’s is slashed. Less American engagement in the world is antithetical to American exceptionalism. Continued American influence doesn’t always have to be prohibitively expensive. We need to start being more creative in how we engage.

Ok, so not necessarily something that’s happened recently. So here we may have an example of where many of us talk past each other when arguing for our causes. While there certainly are people making an argument for real socialism, I don’t think that’s the mainstream progressive argument in the United States. Let’s look at why so many progressives (and I consider myself one much of the time) like to point to Scandinavia. Sweden currently has a successful capitalist economy. Yet they also have a robust social safety net, high wages, massive union participation, universal healthcare, and a government funded education system that’s considered one of the best in the world, amongst many other “socialist” leaning policies. So it’s possible to have your cake and eat it too. Now, I realize that the Swedish economy has had its struggles and that the country is currently grappling with issues as varied as immigration and pandemic response. Not perfect. I get it. But.....when you hear the “lefties” argue for “socialism” in our country, take the time to listen to what they’re actually advocating. It’s usually not literal socialism. We most definitely do not have to agree with each other (Royal ‘we’, not necessarily referring to you and I specifically), but it helps to know what the other guy’s actual position is when it comes to good, constructive debate. Fox/CNN/Facebook, etc. have been extremely unhelpful in this regard.

What’s going on with the Scandinavian economy? Not an accusatory question. Genuinely interested.

Flea, Excellent and well thought out response. I happen to disagree with you in that I believe that Europe is still well worth the effort. But thank you for a rigorous and respectful debate.

Valid points if you view our relationship with Europe as purely transactional and argue that they are “buying” our defense services. I don’t see it that way. From my point of view, what we are “buying” when we spend on NATO is continued peace and prosperity in Europe. We are also “buying” continued influence in shaping the conversation on what the world order should look like going forward. Is Germany working with Russia problematic? Perhaps. But we are still the biggest player by far and it’s in every American’s interest to keep it that way. We do have a track record of disengagement with Europe that so far has ended in having to clean up the resulting mess one hundred percent of the time.