gearhog

Quadrupled down on what? Pointing out that you're only able to identify propaganda when it doesn't come from you? I am genuinely interested in your position, if it can stand. But childishly repeating: "Russian Talking Points" ad nauseam doesn't give you any credibility. I'm not here to change anyone else's mind. I'm not here to be agreeable. I'm here to change my own mind. I have no idea your age or what stage of your career you're in, but I was there. If 10 years ago someone was telling me the same things I'm telling you, I'd have been highly defensive as well. And, for the same reasons I explained earlier. I read a lot, I observe a lot, and my perspective changes based on an accumulation of info that I process according to my values and morality. When I present my evolved opinion here on the matter that is critical of both sides, and not just one, I fully expect it to be attacked. I wouldn't be writing these long-winded posts if I didn't thoroughly enjoy your criticisms and finding holes in your logic. If you're 100% unwilling to condemn propaganda on both sides instead of just one, I know you're not arguing in good faith. You calling me a "stooge" or a "shill" because I don't adopt YOUR talking points and propaganda is amusing because it's glaringly hypocritical to anyone with an ounce of integrity. Those Psyops guys that you'd like for me to speak with... what exactly is their job? Is it only to identify enemy propaganda and counter it with the truth? I've known plenty of PSYOPS guys. I've dropped pallets full of the "truth" in the form of leaflets over the skies of IRQ/AFG. I'm well aware of their job and if you claim to not know that our current government aims a little propaganda our way as well, or you know it and are not also critical of it, you're being dishonest. There's a thousand reasons to love the "my" country, but that doesn't mean I can't be critical of it in the instances it falls short of my expectations. And it is "mine" no less, and no more, than it is yours or anyone else's. If your defense is so delicate that you can't accept any criticism whatsoever, nor admit any fault, you are operating in bad faith and your character is maybe a little weak. I care about Russia about as little as one possibly could. I've never mentioned or written about "Tucker". Why are you trying to inject him into the conversation? Is this a left vs right thing for you? You'll spend a thousand words decrying something being "from the Internet", "from Russia", "from Twitter", "from Tucker"....but you'll never address the content itself. It's kinda like the rainbow hair people who scream into the camera when someone asks them a simple, logical question that defeats their position. I've been asking you specific detailed questions about your position and you ever-so consistently decline to approach them. Instead, you deflect with irrelevant nonsense about "Tucker", "Soros", "Nazis", "Illuminati," "Covid", etc. Interestingly, these are all leftist criticisms. Hmm.

There are lots of examples of Ukrainians willing to fight the Russians. There are also lots of examples of Ukrainians being forcibly conscripted off the streets and being sent to the front lines with minimal or no training.

I moved the discussion to the Russian thread. Cheers.

Moved from the Chinese thread. You have a single tactic in your repertoire: "Everything I don't like is Russian propaganda". You haven't posted anything of substance to support your position and you immediately disengage from discussing actual events, specific details, and examples. If I ask you a question regarding such, you've got absolutely nothing and revert to your robotic "You. are. spreading. Russian. propaganda." Multiple sites and domains? Which ones? If you don't agree with my position, I am perfectly fine with that. You have an unlimited amount of words and space to type your rebuke. This is a fantastic place to express and articulate your beliefs, yet you don't. You seem to be more interested in silencing me than proving me wrong. That antidote to bad speech is more speech. The truth will eventually win, whatever it turns out to be. You appear to only want to take the intellectually lazy shortcut by saying "You shouldn't be speaking." The question still stands: Do you believe I should be restricted from saying the things I'm saying here because you've deemed them false propaganda and giving "aid and comfort to the enemy"? You decision to dodge that question reveals as much your answer. If you believe my argument is dumb, do you worry everyone else on this forum is dumb enough to be influenced by it? This site is filled with smart people. I trust them to form their own opinions. They don't need you and the Ministry of Truth to police the forum. What exactly do you think you're doing here? Are you gonna "humble" me with your singular superior intellectual defense of moaning about "Propaganda!" coupled with lame insults? If you think that's going to yield desirable results, better strap in for the long haul because you're gonna be here a while. LOL. By all means, keep flailing away. That's the question and the reason I posted it. Is it propaganda, or is it fact? It's a pro-Ukrainian message from a member of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. It appears you're only able to identify propaganda when it contradicts your message. Are you so insecure in your messaging that you can't even allow yourself to acknowledge that propaganda exists on your own side, and is often even more far-fetched and ridiculous? The predicament being: If you do acknowledge it, I'm just going to give you more examples. https://twitter.com/SarahAshtonLV/status/1691105018215317504?s=20

Better said, and with more tact than I have.

Apology accepted. Don't worry about it.

Importance is subjective, by definition. Facts are not subjective. Either you don't know the definition of the word "importance", or the word "fact". Which is it? I crack myself up.

And disregarded.

Your opinion is duly noted.

That's an interesting thought. /s

Lame and weak. I haven't posted under the username gearpig in going on 6 years, right around the time you arrived here. You're obviously posting under a sock-puppet account because you're afraid to engage using your primary account. "Rules Based International Order" LOL. And you accuse me of repeating talking points. You don't have an original thought or phrase that hasn't been gleaned from a political talk show. Hypocrite.

Sorry, busy rolling hay this week. Of course I am. "Universal scientific truth" is just a redundant way of saying "truth". I think you have developed your own personal truth, which (let's be honest) is just a collection of narratives you've been told to defend. Again, what good would you be as a soldier if you didn't espouse the "current thing?" You're currently in a contractual obligation. That obligation requires that you see things a certain way to be good at your job. You simply couldn't be good at your job if you allowed yourself the luxury of a non-biased objective perspective. You're a good soldier. The best kind. I no longer have any such obligation to military or civilian leadership. If I were in your position, I'd probably be vigorously defending my choices, and likely be better at it than you are. 😄 Aid and comfort to the enemy, eh? By arguing about Russia in a thread about the Chinese on forum which, (again, let's be honset) isn't exactly the most-visited website? I appreciate the promotion of my importance in your delusion of grandeur, but I'm aiding the enemy about as much as you're harming it here. Someone posted something around here about the Chinese being on the verge of collapse. Russia is having the very same internal domestic problems. Economic woes, population collapse, etc. Russia was doing perfectly fine digging their own grave. Again, in the course of two years they've been unable to project their military power more than a couple hundred kms into their own front yard. And this is the major geopolitical threat you feared was going to steamroll the European continent? As you well know, irrational fear is still an extremely effective propaganda tool to motivate people to do things they wouldn't ordinarily do. Did you take the shots because you believe in it, or were fearful of what you were told would happen if you didn't? You seem like the type of person that could justify most anything with an ounce of fear. Not good. Oh, really? What would those arguments be? List them. I could give you a dozen and you would simply say that they're all Russian disinformation and propaganda. It's an easy out. You're no different than anyone at MSNBC. Deliver the approved perspective while simultaneously shouting "MISINFORMATION! DISINFORMATION! MALINFORATION!" at everything contradictory. It's weak and transparent, but the funny thing is: you actually seem to believe it. It's the same projection we see from your side on nearly every issue. Accuse others of doing the very same thing you are. And when you say I "puff up and scream about the First Amendment", you seem to be mocking it. Honest question: Do you believe I should be restricted from saying the things I'm saying here because you've deemed them false propaganda and giving "aid and comfort to the enemy"? Lawman, as a gesture of good faith, allow me to disseminate some anti-Russian information from an official Ukrainian outlet to demonstrate that I'm not wholly opposed to promoting your side of the argument. https://twitter.com/SarahAshtonLV/status/1691105018215317504?s=20

Ok. I’m a little surprised. Not quite the admission I was hoping for, but I sincerely respect your movement in that direction. Solid effort. I don’t believe I’ve ever argued anything about masks, but whatever. I’ll not bring up it again. Of course, we remain far apart the other things you mentioned. It won’t be me that convinces you to change your position on those, but I have full confidence that “time”will, again, just as it did here. Problem being, you’ll be late. However, I will be there to say, “I told you so.” 🙂 cheers

Not necessarily. Any minor expression of regret or acknowledgement that perhaps you were caught up in the mass hysteria, as many good people were, would completely absolve you in my mind. Until then, when I see your screen name, I see the guy that he wanted to pull the plug on people in the hospital. I'm morally obligated to say something. You believe the world is round. If a Russian also believes the world is round, does that mean it isn't? That's been your entire defense this whole time. That if someone from Russia espouses a similar narrative, then that narrative automatically becomes Russian propaganda or a lie. One can be critical of his own government without being a Russian sympathizer. Allow me to make it abundantly clear to you: In my mind, Russia is a terrible country. They don't have the freedoms we have enjoyed. Russia's economic prosperity is in sharp decline. Putin is corrupt. Putin jails his political opponents. Russia has invaded multiple foreign countries recently. Why would I want to sympathize with the official propaganda narratives a country like that? There would be absolutely no benefit whatsoever for me to promote those narratives. I don't want to live under Russian rule. I want Russia, as a system of government, to fail. That doesn't mean I'm willing to excuse the leadership of my own country, the United States of America, for engaging in the same behaviors to counter them. I don't want US to become Russia, just to fight Russia. The first time I touched AFG soil was in 2001 and the last was 2018. I invested a lot of my time and career there. So when I recall my experiences there, it's not just to score debate points. To watch it fail miserably in the end just so that our leadership can begin the process of entangling the US in yet another foreign conflict only a few short months later, where we will send even more vast amounts of treasure, and ultimately American lives isn't something I am required to do quietly as much as you would like for me to. I'm going to say what I believe and let the chips fall where they may. That's the nature of free speech and what I want to preserve. That's what made us better than the USSR/Russia. If you want to more adequately silence my dissent, do so with substance, not dismissal. As you tout the capabilities of the Russian propaganda machine to reach deep into the hearts and minds of veterans and what not to manipulate them according to their will, do you honestly... honestly... believe that the US does not also have that capability ten-fold, and aggressively using it around the world? Unbelievably Naive. You have the basis for a decent argument to be made. But you ruin it with ridiculousness like this. You just fabricated a straw man from silliness that no one here has brought up... just so you can make a spectacle of yourself swatting down bullshit that you, yourself, created. It's dumb. It's childish.

😄 Don't interrupt us while we're enjoying ourselves. This thread alone has probably generated an incredible amount of revenue for the forum based on the number of pop-ups and ads in the margins. Just trying to help.

Nah, I'm just someone that disagrees with you. I've had plenty of civil disagreements with good people in good faith on this forum on a variety of issues. As I've said, I've been here a long time. Over 20 years now. I've seen literally hundreds of other people, like yourself, come and go. Show up, try to debate, and some get nasty about it and often just go away. Absolutely I am. I've explained why I believe the things I believe numerous times, over and over again. I've given you detailed information that contradicts your position and you never address the specifics. I want to hear why you believe Russia pulled up to NATO borders, why you believe the 2014 coup wasn't foreign interference. But you're not really interested in any of that. You know full well I can poke holes in every one of your arguments. Instead, your position relies on denigrating me and my service, not my arguments. From my time here, I recognize the type of person that does that, because I've seen you a hundred times. I'm engaging you because if I give you enough rope, you'll hand yourself with it. Who is exploiting me and exactly how are they doing it? Yet another question you'll ignore. It's a claim that sounds good in your own mind, but you're not willing to substantiate it or follow up. Counter-culture movement? Racial social movement? CSIS? Illuminati? WTF are you even talking about? You're just spouting stream of consciousness crazy nonsense and act as though you've scored he game winning point. Who are the specific outside influences in your vague references and what exactly are they attempting to distract us from? Once again, crickets. But! But! You'll accuse me of being brainwashed while simultaneously regurgitating and vehemently defending every single government approved mainstream narrative on every current issue as if you were writing headlines for MSNBC. Take a look in the mirror. NPC. Honest question: We've been at this for a while now. Have you seen me once attempt to devalue yours or anyone else's service to score a debate point? That's a fair question. I'm pretty careful, but perhaps I did unintentionally. Of course you'll attempt to denigrate mine (I don't care), but to say you don't care about any old veterans' real imagined experiences over there, to refer to fallen soldiers as "Poor Dead Grunts", it demonstrates your character. I debate people a lot, but rarely ones who say such things. I'd feel genuinely bad about engaging this debate with most others operating in good faith on the forum. But here, I feel there's no real harm done.

But not quite as passionate as you are about murdering unvaccinated hospital patients, am I right?

You mean the ones you claim I'm receiving from the Kremlin's GRU US Veteran Mind Control Program? Give me a sec. I've got poor 5G reception in my secret Russian agent hideout. ... Oh yeah, they want me to ask you specifically about your claim that the Russians "pulled up" to the NATO border. Wanna expand on that? Putin himself wants to know how many "Poor Dead Grunts" you're willing to sacrifice to fight an imaginary threat that you also believe can't fight their way out of a wet paper bag. Hold, getting another signal. Xi Xinping wants to know if you're current on your boosters.

Weak. Quitter. 😄

Agreed. I'll apologize on behalf of Lawman for his derailment of the thread. 😄

Huh. You know... you got me to wondering. Surprise! LOLOL

Apparently the one you're in because... here you are, J. Edgar. 😆 High on McCarthyism, in high heels, with your panties in a twist and seeing Red agents everywhere. Funny that a critique of US government foreign policy triggers your paranoid delusions of the critic being a Russian sympathizer. I'll give you credit, though. You did say that history repeats itself. In your lunacy, you believe that I've been brainwashed by Sputnik and "the GRU" and targeted by the Kremlin. Insane. It's the same sort of wack-job idiocy that justifies unfounded witch hunts, hearings, investigations, and interrogations. You don't answer any legitimate questions, just act all indignant and call it disinformation. You're supremely qualified to be the next Rachael Maddow. I've already told you, multiple times, I want Russia to fail. Putin can eat shit. He shouldn't have invaded. But I'm not Russian, I don't speak Russian, I don't know any Russians. My critques, nor yours, of Russia matters in the least. What I do know for a fact, is the leadership of the country that I do live in, are also shitbags attempting to ruin a great nation. My opinion of the US matters more than my opinion of Russia. Do you actually think once we defeat Russia, the people you've supported will relinquish the power you've given them, and we'll live in peace, harmony, freedom and democracy? The current system relies on the expansion of power and resources to survive and is no less corrupt than anywhere else. How have you not noticed that your attention is continuously directed toward boogeymen while your freedoms continue to be eroded and the quality of life of the average American continues to be diminished. Gullible and Naive. That's how.

Are you autistic? It should be apparent by now that I’ve formed a hypothesis about your character and I would like for you to prove it by openly saying something dumb. It’s amazing that you would continue to do just that. Zero self-awareness. Thanks for the reply. I’ll give you a full response later today and yet another opportunity to, once again, denigrate the service of not me, but other fellow vets.

In yet another article about the rampant corruption in the Ukrainian military, the New York Times says the losses on the Ukr side top 150,000. I wonder what the real number is. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/11/world/europe/ukraine-fires-recruitment-chiefs.html

Yes.. And? ... This is the part of your argument where you would actually do that. Just saying that a counter-point exists out there somewhere isn't actually an argument in itself. You actually have to make one. So the way you argue that our expenditure of lives and treasue in Iraq was essential to the national interests of the US... is to claim that the streets of Baghdad are safer than many cities in the US. Now that's f'n brilliant. LOL Lawman: "I don't like your anecdotal war stories and anecdotes aren't valid with regard to strategic policy." Also Lawman: "Let me dispute your position with my own someone else's anecdotal war stories." You know what does? Referring to person Y as "Some Poor Dead Grunt". Ya think maybe you might have committed an unintentional human error and maybe used some language that you didn't carefully consider? It happens. Or do you stand by it? So is Russia a: A) major geopolitical threat to the United States B) paper tiger suffereing tremendous losses at the hands of a smaller country next door Choose one. Grab some popcorn. Let's watch Russia pull up to the NATO border in this time lapse video. https://twitter.com/Sprinter99800/status/1687012096246943744?s=20