fire4effect

Of course everyone In the cockpIt has a job as opposed to tryIng to get one so I suspect that limits the animosity

Only one data point but I know at least one SWA pilot with more I hear about second hand bail for other airlines due to better upward mobility. Stagnation in the seniority list at SWA has caused some to re-think career progression.

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THIS....can't tell you how many people I've had this discussion with. Good ideas in the military only have to APPEAR to be good ideas for 2-3 years max until OPRs/OERs are filed/PCS/Promotion/Retirement

As someone alluded to above. This was a shot across the bow to the airlines pure and simple. I think the higher ups have decided the "fence" has been effectively bulldozed over and they've given up on any pretext of keeping most in at this point. Also as I mentioned a while back even if you're out you aren't completely out if you haven't resigned your commission. Even if you attempt to resign I'd say it's a crapshoot they'd accept it as things get more dire.

Sounds like the Air Force, playing the part of the exwife, is going back to court for an increase in alimony

https://federalnewsradio.com/air-force/2017/04/airline-meeting-beginning-long-road-air-force-pilot-shortage/ From the article "Thornberry said he’s talked to the military about creating programs that could bring pilots who have left the service back in laterally for a short time to help with the shortage." (House Armed Services Committee Chairman Mac Thornberry (R-Texas) The devil will be in the details

Not exactly the same but along the same line of thinking, I always carried a cheap $40 Roshan phone with scratch card minutes in Afghanistan. Seems the most reliable means of comms in third world areas is the cell network. Most certainly not secure but if my day has REALLY gone to sh!t then the bad guys already know where I am and I want the good guys to know too. 40 bucks plus minutes would seem mighty cheap at that point. When I watched "Lone Survivor" I couldn't help but think how something as simple as having a local cell phone might have been the difference between everyone coming home alive with no one knowing their names and being the subject of a feature film.

2X Trump gets a two for one. Shows we mean business to the trouble makers in the world and helps the oil industry recover. Oil prices are already rising in response. 350k? I'm thinking closer to 500k. Unfortunately a large ground force is a great recruiting tool for all the wannabe Jihadis.

You reminded me of a similar situation at one of the small exchanges in Baghdad back in the day. It seemed for the longest time you could find a few lower enlisted rank insignia, O-5 and O-6 rank insignia and I swear I'm not making this up but at least six 4 Star General Officer rank insignias. Those same six sat on the shelf for weeks. I think General Petraeus was the only 4 Star in theater at that time. To this day I regret not buying one as a souvenir as an unbeatable reminder of the sheer buffoonery

I keep swearing there has to be a parallel universe with a country called Natsinahgfa where men are outnumbered by the women (all 9s) 10-1.

As you so eloquently said. NFW. BUT we have very powerful entities namely senior military leadership (doing as directed I'm sure by our civilian leadership) and airline executives who have WAY more clout with Congress (who pays attention to the biggest taxpaying voting blocks and the reality is pilots who at best number say 600,000 nationwide don't qualify) than most on this board looking to fix a major problem effecting this country's military readiness and economic well being. And don't forget the little issue of the Railway Labor Act that takes a powerful tool (strike) essentially out of the hands of labor. As the article stated the current seniority system encourages military pilots to bail at the first opportunity to get that all important seniority number and move up the pay scale. I say never assume anything or let your guard down especially with the current administration.

Possible changes to the time honored seniority system? Whether good, bad or neither remains to be seen.

Let the collective paranoia begin. I'm waiting on the MODs to get a National Security Letter and we'll all be given up whosale. Dibs on the bottom bunk.

I expect some very nasty legal fights to come out of this. We'll find out just how far warrants and subpoenas will be able to reach into social media. Especially given the sheer scale of the scandal. On a related note these shenanigans are not all that new and the posting of stuff like this has been going on for at least the last 10 years. Mostly because people did dumb things like not deleting caches on MWR computers and not so shockingly they got posted on the internet. Some small scale punishments handed out at the local level nothing rivaling the current fecal fullisade. Hang on tight Convective SIGMET just issued.

Fair point. If you believe Director Comey encrypted I-Phones will be the downfall of Western Democracy. I will be interested to see how a military organization will be able in a legal sense fight a civilian behemoth called the internet.

I wonder if there has been a run on new computers at various Exchanges around the country as many have decided it's time to upgrade. With the old ones recycled with a sledge hammer.

Hopefully you'll have them better prepared by the time they bail for the airlines.

If airline civilian programs like the PSA programs mentioned become widely available to put someone in an airline seat in 6 years vs 11-12 years on the mil side then not much choice but to adjust fire to compete. Agree that while autonomous airliners are a long long way off that same technology coupled with the sheer expense of new military aircraft/weapons systems means fewer manned cockpits and a correspondingly smaller number of pilots produced by the military in general going forward.

"Wilson reports that the Air Force and Navy train a combined 2,000 new pilots per year at an ultimate cost of $10 million for a seasoned fighter pilot." Gen. Steven Wilson, Vice Chief of Staff of the Air Force testifying before the House and Senate Armed Services committees last week.

I agree. The operative word is "yet" The dynamic has changed completely now from a few years ago because of wave of retirements and the ATP/1500 hour requirements. Eventually the military won't be able to produce enough to cover all of the demand and while that is obviously good for a mil pilot's marketability it doesn't solve the problem of a shortage. From the Airline CEO/stockholder perspective it not surprisingly can help keep overall wages down by having a cadre of pilots you "own" long term. This is where the unions will earn their keep.

The CFI route also pairs instructors who are barely beyond students themselves with brand new pilots. I know the military has FAIPS but it seems counter-intuitive. I'm also surprised that the airlines haven't gone whole hog into a grow your own ab-initio programs or something close like requiring a PPL/instrument with say a 4 year degree to apply. With dare I say it a long term training agreement or as the military calls it an ADSC. Of course different states have laws that may limit the overall length of a contract so a 10 year agreement for example might not be feasible. If I'm young aspiring pilot this may be the quickest cheapest (though it's all relative) way in the not so distant future to a major airline seniority number. I know the unions with the current rank and file pilots would have a fit. JetBlue was looking at it though I don't whether it came to fruition. Finally, while sub 1000 hour military pilots aren't necessarily flying planeloads of paying passengers (though planeloads of troops on C-17s is no small matter) they're no less in a position of responsibility. Had SHELL 77 gone down over a heavily urban area the repercussions would still be felt as much as those from Colgan today.

In fairness I've wondered the same thing. Unless they're planning to integrate them into operations in a novel way I'm not familiar with which is quite possible. Still hard to fathom. If anyone is inclined to enlighten me please pm and we can go .mil

Wellll. It takes a village sts. USAID, Department of Agriculture, State Dept., World Bank, Army Corp of Engineers, various UN entities etc. LOTs of players. I want to say the last I heard was a quote of 70 percent plus of Afghanistan's budget comes from foreign donations at least in the 2013 time frame. Including India as a small poke in the eye to Pakistan I'm sure. Army is as much about providing security for all those agencies to operate as anything. The footprint has not at all surprisingly shrunk significantly since I was last there. Unfortunately Nation Building entails working with the LNs over which there is very little control so you can only hope for maybe a 70 percent solution. I hate the thought of a large ground contingent but after what gains made in Iraq were nearly lost to ISIS for good hedging your bets against ISIS and the rest of their ilk is really the only option I can see for now. I really do understand how a 365 (and all the pre deployment BS) can wear you down especially if your primary skill set is aviation or otherwise far removed from the job your tasked with.

LMAO