StealthDriver

Hoss, All good points man and to each their own. Finding and maintaining a job that you thoroughly enjoy is key. Like you said, you are one of the few and for that you are making the right decision for yourself and that is admirable brother. My point on the 30yr career vs 15yr in the airlines is simply that either way, most (whether a 20 year AF Retiree going Airlines or the kid that gets out at his 10 year mark) will end up working until age 60 (on average) in the Airlines. My origional post was towards guys who plan to go Airlines one way or another or have Airlines as their primary fallback post retirement. Not meant towards guys who do not plan on going the Airline route and have a totally different post retirement plan all together. For those right now that are at their 10yr decision point and are planning on the Airline job one way or another (whether post retirement or jumping in as a young guy), it just gets tougher as we age as aviators. Our bodies get older, kids get older, more expenses will pop up, standard of living normally increases and we just can't handle what we could as a young 33-34 year old in the first few years flying the Line in the Airlines. Seniority truley is everything in the Commercial world and having the added piece of mind of arriving in a very fluid market such as the Airlines is a big deal. Airline money is a very nice benifit, but some dudes, if they showed up late after the hiring wave could spend their 10-15 years with an Airline constantly wondering if they are prime to be furlough because they got in late. Being on the tail end of that whip can seriously mess with ones pshchy. Right now and for the next couple years is just the perfect time for a dude that is on the fence and who's plan involves the Airlines one way or another. These opportunities in the Airline world come around seldomly. To catch it where it is right now (if that's your cup of tea) can be invaluable. Sure, if dudes are having an awesome time in the Air Force and you just can't see yourself doing anything else, then I say Right On! Press with the commitment of 10yrs to the Air Force and take the bonus. We need good guys to stick around. But if the Airlines are a plan 10yrs from today after retiremnt it is going to be a whole different animal and dudes just need to realize that when they take that bonus and commit. We are all smart dudes and realize this. It just so happens that these next few years are the prime time for getting the wind at one's back in the Airline game...if the Airlines were something that the individual was counting on from the beginning. If a dude is happy where he is...keep roll'en...and take the $18k per year it would be stupid not to. If not, and a dude is getting beat down, then he can always go Airlines and forgoe the Queep and get paid a lot more for it. I'll leave it at that. That's just my two cents on this whole should I take the money or punch for the Airlines when the going is real good on that side of the fence. All good posts fellas Tough crowd! ;)

#1. I will finish my beer #2. Stay classy brother

This rant is meant for those who are thinking of staying in 20years and plan to either fly airlines or have airlines in mind as a backup post retirement.... It still boggles my mind how $25k per year could be the least bit appetizing to anyone...especially in this current environment. Hell, by the time you factor in taxes, your are getting as much as your son or daughter could make with a part time job at McDonalds. What a freaking joke. Another bit of food for thought is that (unless you played your cards right and are a millionair by the time you retire as a LT Col) you are going to still need to work. Based on current retiring Lt Cols, about 70% of them, maybie more are going airlines, or at least trying. What does this mean? Well it means that they either planned from the begging to go airlines or had it as a backup because they realize they still need to work. So let's say that stays the same, that means about 70% of us will be looking to do the same in 10 years. Sooo, either way, most of us will still need to work. With the current hiring boom, if your plan or back-up plan is to fly commercial post retirement as a means of maintaining your financial quality of life, why the heck would you not get out as a young guy now? The wave has arrived and the front side of that wave is going to stick around for 3-4 years or so. It just makes sence to be at the beginning of that hiring spree. The biggest stress you will have in the commercial world is how many numbers are behind you. Seniority is THE issue. Doing so gets you that seniority that you will not have should you wait 10 years from now. The guys that are taking these commercial jobs withen the next 2-3 years are going to realize that their decision to punch was probably one of their best financial decisions they've made. When their buddies show up to the same Airline at age 45 kicking the tires as retired Lt Cols that took a $25k/yr bonus while the one who didn't is now a Captain it will be interesting to see who's quality of life is better at that point. It would take that dude probably to age 55 maybie 60 just to hit Captain! Also, the dude who punched is looking at a 30 year Airline retirement vs the other dude who is looking at a 15yr. The difference is HUGE (sts)! And the set income of an AF Retirement doesn't come close to what you would have made by putting in 30yrs with an Airline. As it stands today, if your plan is to do airlines after 20years AD, your going to have missed the hiring wave, you will be older, you will still need to work, your standard of living will be higher, your kids will be in college, you will have probably done at least one 365 away from your family, you will be joining an airline and flying the crappy lines as an FO to pay your dues to climb the ladder all while being older and your body not as swift to recoupe had you done it when you were 33yrs old and the hiring wave was cush, you will be tired, it will take you forever and a day to make Captain because by the time you do you will be forced to retire at age 65, 10 years from now you will be looking at your buddies FB profile pics who punched and you will be kicking yourself, you will have PCS'd at least 2-3 more times for the Air Force, one of those moves will probably be right smack in the middle of one of your kids high school years and they will hate you (ok, maybe not hate)...all for $25k per year before taxes...what a joke. Don't sell your sole for this last ditch effort that AD AF is trying to get you to bite off on...Their mismanagement and apparent attempts to fix the situation is nothing more than a slap in the face to good aviators and good people who deserve much better treatment. It's not about the money...never was. Anyone else see this as well? Maybe it's just the beer talking ;)

My best guess is that this has everything to do with: 1. Upcomming GSC Manning issues at Staff, etc. 2. Expanding GSC Commander job positions. 3. Money

Disco, I sure would hope so for the Bone folks. Unfortunately, scoring additional flying staff positions seems very grim. AFGSC on my neck of the woods is looking for ways to cut flying staff gigs. My sneaky suspension is bigger AF is looking to fill the impending void of filling Staff positions in GSC. They know it's on its way. Many dudes around here with 2 years commitment remaining have every intent to drop 7 day opt paperwork if they get a GSC Staff gig. At least with this move, Big Blue has more bodies to tap into to fill the GSC staff void. Something tells me that the number of Bone dudes who were at all on the fence for the Bonus just got smaller. But I could be completely wrong.

In other words, C Ya Langely staff jobs....hello Barksdale! Poor fellas.

Anyone know (by AFI) how long your Sq/CC can sit on your PC application? Looked through the Palace Chase governing AFI 36-3205 pg12. It states in there that the WG/CC has 2 weeks (but not quite clear if that means 2 weeks from when he gets it or two weeks from when I submitted the Paperwork to my Sq/CC). My thoughts are that there has got to be a limit on how long a SQ/CC can slow roll.

On another note, while we await the next round of cuts, I was reading through the previous Matrix data on the last boards. Here a site that had some of the previous data: https://m.unitedstatesairman.com/site/mobile?dm_path=%2Fforce%2Dmanagement%2Dmatrices&fw_sig_access_token=da98c4ae3c53915377ac6e449b875e47f7d28d66&fw_sig=fcb4262863e3191a584c94272f0bbbc7&fw_sig_time=1412964700304&fw_sig_permission_level=0&fw_sig_api_key=522b0eedffc137c934fc7268582d53a1&fw_sig_partner=webs&fw_sig_social=1&fw_sig_is_admin=0&fw_sig_tier=2&fw_sig_premium=1&fw_sig_permissions=none&fw_sig_locale=en-US&fw_sig_session_key=813496ea305ddcc7690777b4279bd35b5a0c099e49f0200defb02ebba651e9f9-101234804&fw_sig_site=101234804&fw_sig_url=https://www.unitedstatesairman.com/&fb_sig_network=fw#3312 Apologies for the lengthy hyperlink. One thing that had me curious is that it is listed as FY14 and FY15. While I'm just now trying to get smart on all this stuff, I had thought we are still waiting on the FY15 Force Management Anouncements. Was the last round for both FY14 and FY15? These Matrix sheets show both. Just trying to make sence of it all. Thanks again.

Thanks!

Side note question: any of you dudes know how long, per the reg, that you have to wait to apply to PC again if you are disapproved....aaaannnd, what do they base that clock time on? (PC paperwork submittal date, or date disapproved?.) Just curious.

Tunes, my friend waited on his scroll approval until a month from his DOS. He was worried but was told there was a backlog. I wouldn't stress too much man. It will come through. When is your DOS?

Sqwatch, Sorry to confuse you. I finished the above post with the analogy that I started with. Cave man style explanation: Dad=Big Air Force (Active Duty) Son=us, the individual Checkmate="I've got options now that doesn't include you." (Reserve/Guard/Airlines/Private Sector job hiring boom). And no amount of money's keeping the majority in. This is what happens when you abuse and ignore what your force needs and simply beat them down. Again...this is just my small opinion. I'm probably way off the mark ;)

I hope they do as well for you man. The current Active Duty AF reminds me of the story of "that Dad" that threw gifts and money at his son in an attempt to cover up his own real issues and lack of care...but still can't understand why his kid grew up to despise him. AD could triple the bonus and I would just laugh and shake my nugget. Just like that kid in the above example. Old "Dad" just doesn't get it man...and he never will until it is too late. My prediction is that the 2005, 2006, and 2007 year-groups will be a HUGE issue for Active Duty. As of right now, in Big Air Force's mind they know they can simply deny dudes requests for PC and VSP or not even allow it at all. What they fail to realize is that when dudes get their mind set on a goal, (in this case it is to get the heck out of this burning jet), that thought and drive doesn't go away. Family members begin to make plans and before you know it, dinner table conversations with the wife start and dudes start seeing light at the end of the tunnel. We've all been there. Now couple that with Airlines and the fact that guys are starting to realize that they are extremely marketable even outside of the Commercial Aviation environment. These three year groups are going to cause big issues (in my very small opinion) because the clock is ticking. Their service commitments are quickly approaching and those dinner table conversations have long since left the station. So, for now, Active Duty could deny all requests for PC and VSP...but they can't stop the ticking clock that is going to hit hardest starting in 2016 when dudes service commitments start to expire. Also, when dudes find themselves within 2years of commitment remaining and AD attempts to PCS those guys to some "great deal" staff gig and they just simply say "no thanks"....because dudes aren't scarred of the 365 threat any more...because we all know that if any of us knuckle heads stay in, a 365 is still the same threat. SQ/CC's/OG's/and WG/CC's are just now starting to realize this in their own respective units, but in true active Duty fashion, the Left hand isn't talking to the Right (right being upper echelons outside the Wing level.) Unfortunately, this isn't a problem that can be fixed...it's a mentality and leadership problem that has caused exponential and long term irreversible consequences. Leadership is just now seeing the results of the path it has been chosen for its people. "Storms a-brewin" and for the first time in a very long time, the son gets to say "Checkmate" to the Dad.

Anyone else eagerly awaiting the FY15 Force Shaping Program to kick off with full force...or is it just me? The waters warm outside of Active Duty! Bring it on Interesting Read: https://www.armytimes.com/article/20140519/CAREERS/305190027/AF-secretary-18-700-more-airmen-cuts-before-s-over

Greetings, Anyone know if there is a more current version of the MQF? The only one I have is the Feb 07 version which seems to have old questions. Thanks! StealthDriver