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Well, it would probably be best to plan on giving your new employer a year before going on long term orders. That's just my opinion, and I have several friends who went on long term mil leave before finishing probation so it does happen a lot. I do think they're kind of rolling the dice though by doing it that way. I've heard rumors that the airlines have petitioned to get changes made to USERRA because of all of the abuses. When you return from mil leave your orders and timeline are also going to face a lot of scrutiny whether you actually see that or not. It will happen, and if you've messed something up you're screwed, plus you'll still be on probation. If you don't want to miss out and get that seniority number because the airlines are the career you want to take you to retirement why would you gamble with that? Will it really be that hard to fly mil part time for your first year to ensure you get off probation? To each their own but that's my 2 cents.

Well, anything else the airlines can do for you? Maybe instant upgrade to captain when you get back from mil leave too? Geez dude, I hope you don't come to my airline. This type of thinking is what has caused tons of problems for the rest of us. I'm currently on probation at my #1 choice airline and am glad I did things the way I did. I was offered an AGR flying job and the unit told me they'd work with me on the timing so I could get my seniority number first etc. I just didn't feel right about it so I took a much less desirable TR job and am so happy I did. While airline flying is much easier than mil flying, in my opinion, there is still a lot of new stuff to learn. During training I actually worked pretty hard and saw a couple of other mil dudes stumble pretty hard because they took it for granted. I've learned a ton on the line too. I don't think it's wise to leave right after training to come back to the airline environment years later that you probably aren't used to in order to face more jeopardy again. They're not going to cut you any slack either. I was tempted to take that AGR job and was tempted to go on orders recently too but I was advised by multiple bros to focus on the new job and get through probation first. I'm not a cool aid drinker for my airline but they deserve my focus and effort during probation. To get hired with the plan to go on orders a month or two later just because "you're not ready to stop flying full time in the military" is b.s. If that's how you feel then you're not ready to go to the airlines. Like others have said, your plan might be legal, but it's straight up dishonest. I can't tell you how many times it's already been emphasized to me by my airline that mil leave needs to be on the up and up because of the massive abuses they've seen. It really sucks to be the new guy and to know you're under the microscope for anything you do when it comes to mil leave due to the people ahead of you who have messed it up. Don't be THAT guy!

I agree and disagree. Yes, we want the best at what they do to be our leaders, but I think we are missing a step. Just because someone is good at what they do doesn't mean they will be a good leader. Frankly, I think this is part of the reason why we are in this mess. From my observations we have ended up three types of leaders in the Air Force. 1. Those who suck in the jet but knew how to play the game and checked the right boxes. These types are often group or wing execs when they hit their promotion board. 2. Highly competent and tactical aviators who look good on paper. However, sometimes these types are arrogant and are climbing the ladder. These are the ones who throw their people under the bus to get where they want to go. These are often the toxic leaders. 3. Competent and tactical aviators and leaders who get it right. In my experience these are the ones I want to follow, but they are becoming more and more rare. Part of the reason why I punched is because of the leaders. I got really sick of having commanders that thought that their sh!t didn't stink.

Yeah, no joke! Don't fall for it gents. Big Blue sure didn't care about the bonus or retention for what? The last 20 or so years. Now they are freaking out and the fact that we are all bailing is not going to make life better for those who stay. It's a trap!

^^^THIS!!!^^^ So much! SOS was very depressing for me because I realized just how screwed up the Air Force was overall. I knew that day that I'd be punching.

Sorry, I can't hold back anymore. Chang, you're an idiot! NO IT DID NOT "work out!" To the outsider looking into the pilot community you might think this is a good thing, but it is not! Virtually nothing has been done to improve our QOL by the AF. Sure, we have a couple of civilians floating around the squadron trying to help out. Honestly, they suck. I find myself avoiding them because they are so incompetent and always asking me questions about how to do their job. They've even started to task me to get them stuff. I'm sure they'll get better but so far it hasn't helped. Other than that nothing has been done. I'm under a year until my commitment is up and with each passing day I am more and more convinced to leave this train wreck. It's not even a sinking ship to me anymore...it's a full fledged train wreck. The bonus situation ended up being a huge negative and I don't even think the AF realizes it yet. Targeted bonuses to certain communities? Well, now you just pissed off those communities that aren't "targeted." $35K? Sounds like a slap in the face after the AF told us they were going for $48K. The House's first version of the NDAA had $60K. Now that $35K is downright insulting. The message that has been sent loud and clear now is that either the AF or Congress or both think that only increasing the bonus to compensate for inflation is enough. Well, it's not. I've been jerked around for a decade and I'm ready to live where I want to live. I'm ready to decide how I want to spend my time off, and not be told I have to engage in the mandatory fun or volunteer activities that the AF deems worthy. I'm ready to actually do the job I'm trained to do instead of a bunch of meaningless "tasks" that make those over me look good if I do a good job. I'm tired of SAPR or green dot training or whatever they decide to call it next. I'm not a rapist and I'm tired of being treated like a 2 year old. I don't want to spend a year away from my family in an awful location building power point slides for some guy that everyone bows too while also hating. I'm sick of this dysfunctional social experiment and I'm ready to get my life back. Good riddance.

Looks like Congress set the bonus to be maxed out at $35K. JQP is reporting that this is what is in the NDAA that just passed the House. Sure, it's not about the money, but I don't see how going from $60K to $48K to $35K is going to help retention when the starting point should have been $35-$40K years ago. I think stop loss is coming... Get out while you can. I know I am.

I'm an 11F looking to palace chase with an intent to hire letter. Thinking about asking for 6 months off my commitment. Thoughts on the probability of that happening? I've got less than a year left on my commitment so I'm also wondering how long it will take to get an answer one way or another?

To the OP, I was in almost the exact same position as you when I was at your point. I chose flying. Would I make the same choice again? Maybe. Here are a couple of things to consider: 1. Longevity. What can you do longer? Which is more stable? I'm at the end of my commitment. Flying pointy jets has been awesome. The overall career? Eh. My back and neck hurt too. I don't know if everyone can fly their whole life due to medical reasons. I would bet doctors can still work with some of the medical issues that would ground a pilot. That might not seem like a big deal now when you're young, but trust me it's a big deal and something you should consider now. 2. Looking back it seems much easier to become a doc first and then become a pilot one way or another later. The other way is much MUCH harder from what I have seen. If you're anywhere near 50/50 on this just go to medical school. You'll make enough money as a doc to pay for all of your ratings and can then probably own your own aerobatic plane if you really want to go upside down. I make sure I go upside down on every flight in the Air Force, but I'm pretty sure most docs deal with less b.s. and get treated better when they are at work than I do. At the end of the day if you really end up wanting to fly in a fighter or something just go sign up to be a flight doc and you'll get to taste the life. 3. There's a reason why so many pilots are leaving the Air Force. Don't discount that fact! How many docs are running from their jobs? I really don't know the answer, but I bet not that many. 4. The Air Force overall has done a really great job taking care of me and my family. There are some huge benefits to being in the Air Force. At the end of the day it sucks though. There is too much b.s. Just go become doc.

Why? Is this due to the extra time beforehand to learn a language?

Thanks for the words gents.

I'm having some very painful back issues. I've never had an MRI but know that I'll need one. I'm pretty sure that I have a herniated disc in the L4 region and based off of what the interwebs are telling me I am now experiencing sciatica. I've been having the sciatica symptoms for about a week and it's getting worse where now I'm having numbness and tingling down one of my legs. I've pretty much decided it's time to call uncle and go see the flight doc. Here are my questions: Immediate DNIF? I assume so. Could this be serious? I fly pointy jets and was wondering if I'll be done after this? Has anyone experienced this and got back to flying?

Should be $60K. I've heard that number a lot recently and that is what was in the House version of the NDAA. $60K says they mean business and are trying. $48K just doesn't sound or look as good after hearing $60K for a while. It's not about the money but this is a strategic error if it ends up being anything but $60K.

Ok, so the SECDEF doesn't want to do anything and everything to retain pilots? That sounds about right. I'm planning on pulling the handles soon but a $60K per year bonus and significant improvement in quality of life/reduction of additional duties might make me think twice.

Wut? So, is the 60K thing gone? Does anyone know/remember when the ACP officially comes out every year?

I am by no means a blue kool aid drinker but there are two sides to this coin. I am planning on getting out soon and going to the airlines. However, I heard recently that roughly 1/3 of all males won't make it to 65, and only around 25% of all airline pilots will make it to 65 without losing their medical for a period of time. Let that sink in. Also, we know that the airline industry is volatile. Hopefully, those of us who are getting hired now will be bullet proof from furloughs etc, but you never know. Also, look at how airline management teams are fighting tooth and nail to avoid better contracts for pilots. Doesn't seem like a healthy relationship to me. Health insurance costs are also significantly higher on the outside. If you have something go down you could take a pretty big hit. Just some food for thought. Everyone talks about the money you could lose at the end of your career if you don't go to the airlines now. Well, how do you know you'll live that long? Will you be able to hold your medical into those years? To me this isn't a money decision. It is a quality of life decision.

"2" By hiring from the outside you will create resentment, especially from the guy who was right there ready to take over and then didn't get the job. I know that might not be bad but I think the resentment and back biting that would occur would undercut the "O-6 wonderboy" from the civilian world. Either way I also think credibility would be an issue. The first misstep or not knowing what ### acronym means would surely create a lack of trust and confidence in the leader who was already at a disadvantage. I can't imagine how many people would be talking about their O-6 who just isn't "one of them" or who "just doesn't get it" because they came from the civilian world. Overall this is a really bad idea. I think the key to fixing the leadership problems is making leaders based off of credibility, i.e. job performance in their primary duty and demonstrated integrity and leadership ability. NOT automatically choosing the IDE in-res grad who has been away from the jet for the last 3-4 years.

Just took a quick look at the Senate version of the NDAA they passed today. Looks like they didn't increase the bonus at all. Not even to the $35K that I think they had proposed.

I've always felt that we identify our leaders too early and then anoint them for grandeur without paying attention to their continued performance enough. How many times have we all seen a douche bag CC that is a swinging dick that couldn't lead his way out of a paper bag? Then because said CC is anointed he continues on up the ladder regardless of performance and his toxic leadership because he was an "SDE select" at his O-5 board. I'm frankly tired of it. I've seen so many great dudes who are just as smart and with better tactical and leadership skills brushed aside because they didn't go to school. Ridiculous. Maybe if the AF cared more about the environment it is creating and actually putting THE best guy up for DO or CC instead of the guy who was anointed for it at his majors board then we might not have so many retention issues. But, no we've got to groom the in-res guys to be CSAF of the AF someday and we've got to beat out the other services for senior officer positions.

Confirm you work in the MSG?

Good on you for coming on here to explain. Even though you're showing some cynicism and sarcasm I commend you for explaining. I've seen multiple dudes in my career misrepresent their service and it pissed me and a lot of others off. Hence my criticism. Thanks for serving, but I caution you against overusing your service (calling yourself "captain" on your website) and looking like you are misrepresenting yourself. When you run for office you open yourself and your family up to scrutiny. If you can't take that then I recommend doing something else. I get it that you want to show pictures of yourself in uniform. Cool, but I would recommend making sure they are accurate. If none of them are accurate then take them down. Maybe this could be a blessing in disguise for you? Wouldn't you rather have this criticism like it is now rather than from an opponent at a debate or worse? It would suck to have to explain your service like this in front of a crowd of voters. Trust me, it wouldn't go over so well. I wish you the best of luck on your campaign.

Don't understand? Really? I'll just tell you this, bro, I happen to have direct experience or close association with every single patch he's wearing in his pictures. Your explanations for what is going on are not accurate and you have 7 posts on here. Pretty sure you're Adam or a friend of his. I know what I'm talking about here and he's at a MINIMUM misrepresenting himself in those pictures.

I still call B.S. Look, I want to support veterans who run for public office just as much as the next guy, as long as they align with my political views. What we have here though is a guy who has chosen...CHOSEN to open himself up to this sort of attack. He calls himself "Captain" on his campaign website and it is clear that he is making a huge bid for office by using his service. I'm pretty sure he shouldn't be calling himself "captain" and when you plaster photos of Air Force jets and yourself in uniform, guess what? People are going to look at those pictures. This guy is one of two things: 1. A stolen valor case. or 2. He's misrepresenting his service. I personally think it's #2. I'm sorry but it is absolutely stupid to post pictures of yourself in uniform that are not accurate and to use those to get gain. He wants to hold a political office and he's trying to pass himself off as a fighter pilot, when he was an ABM. That's a huge foul and if true says something about his personality and ethics. I think #2 is very believable. He's running for office in a small area where he probably didn't think he'd get much outside attention and figured he could fudge the truth a little to look better.

No, no I'm not kidding. This was just the tip of the iceberg with this guy. ANNNDDDD, yes his leadership was the beginning of the end for me.

I agree with all the advice above. To the OP: I came close to being in your situation in UPT. We had an OSS/CC that felt it was suddenly a good idea to force the studs to take "official on the record" no notice PT tests a couple of times during training. Luckily I never heard of anyone failing but that CC was a huge douche. A bunch of us came close to failing because, yep, we had our noses in the books and spent the rest of the time chair flying etc. Shockingly we were all so far from being due for out tests that we focused more on the task at hand instead of hitting the gym for a couple of hours each day. I would argue that most people aren't in the shape of their lives at the end of UPT. You had a bad test. Like someone else said, go talk to your CC and explain you cramped up. If you got above a 95 on your last test and look like you're in shape he might invalidate your test if you explain what happened. If he's a good dude he will. A friend of mine failed for the exact same reason as you. His CC invalidated the test. He retested a couple of days later and rocked it. He's continued on without skipping a beat and is going places. If you can't get your test invalidated don't sweat it. You failed at one of the better times to do something like that. Have a good attitude, rock your retest, and you'll be fine.