Gazmo

I can't see how they could enforce an ART contract. They just can't do it. We went through this with the ANG pilot ART bonuses. The bonus payouts are biweekly and the OPM says that if an ART resigns while on a biweekly paid retention bonus, the ART just keeps what he/she got and rides off into the sunset with no strings attached. Bonus paybacks are not enforcable unless they are paid lumpsum up front, which is what they should have did if they were using their heads, but they didn't and ARTs have stayed on bonuses until they walk out the door when the airlines called. Post UPT/FTU ANG seasoning for heavies is 250 days now. 250 days of Title 32 AD, which can be split up in chunks to accomodate deployment rotations. Going from AD orders to GS-11 or even 12 as a 1LT on orders in some parts of the country is going to be a paycut when you look at take-home pay. I was in the unit today after being out for over a month since this change was made and it was confirmed that ARTs on previously signed retention bonuses (10-25%) will still be on bonuses above and being these new payscales. I would have been making $177k as an ART plus $40-50k or more in milpay. Not too shabby. Would that have made me stay if this had been inacted a year ago? No. With 2nd year pay at most of the majors hovering around $150k and Captain upgrades projected to be possible at the 4-5 year mark ($250-300k), the math doesn't add up. Of course this house of cards could all come toppling down as it has done in the past.

Shockingly, a GS-11 step 2 with these new pay tables makes what I used to make when I was a temp-tech GS-13 step 1 in 2007. Times have changed.

While it is true you can get a full refund on your FERS contributions (with taxable interest), it is, to my knowledge, a little more involved than submitting a ticket via MyPERS. I was given a fairly lengthy application to fill out by my HRO, which includes a spouse's (or former spouse) consent with two witnesses. I have somewhere around $5,000 in mine and will be cashing it out soon. It's worth more to me now in my "Don't eat Ramen Fund" than it will be to me when I am 62, which oh-by-the-way, is the minimum age you can collect without penalty if you have less than 20 years as a Technician. Luckily, I was in the .8% club before "Operation: Screw Federal Employees" was implemented in 2014 when they went to 4.4%. They promote absolutely no longevity with the current ART retirement system. It's just not worth it. They need to change the Aircraft Operator group to a 2% for 1 multiplier up to 20 years (then 1 for 1 after), like Air Traffic Controllers. When I outprocessed, my HRO rep gave me a rough estimate of what my Technician retirement would be after 6.5 years of service and I almost laughed myself off the chair. I would rather have the option to forego the FERS and put the money into the TSP with more matching. It doesn't make sense for an officer in this day and age to buy back AD time into the ART program. If you were prior enlisted and became an officer, it is much more profitable, but if you have 10 years AD as an officer and decide to buy that back to get you more Fed service time for a bigger FERS retirement, it is a huge bill to pay in addition to the 4.4% contribution.

We, as in my unit (ANG), hired copilots as 12's, but I "heard" that at one point the AFRC was using the GS-11 rate to hire newbies and it was being thrown around the ANG for a bit.

So basically straight up, no-bonus pay in the NYC area at the GS-13 step 6 rate is $142,937. I was grossing $145,625 in the old tables with a 25% bonus. Not bad. Then I guess they can throw bonuses on top of that. I made over $170k last year with milpay. I guess there will be the opportunity to make over $200k/yr as an ART for the last men standing. There are going to be a lot of lucky O-2's and young O-3's balling it up while they build flying time for the majors. Good for them. They'll definitely be earning it. This was about 10 years too late and still doesn't address the sh*tty retirement system, but it is a start. I have since moved on to greener pastures (at the moment) so will not partake in the newfound coin. In fact I'll be eating Ramen for a year, but it's all good. I have a feeling we are going to see another mandate that units hire the young'ns as GS-11's and 12's again. Fresh PIQ's out of Altus making $122k/year as 13's when their other option is to go fly for a regional to build time for $45k? This is a slippery slope. This pay raise should have been to target the 10-15 year O-3/4 IP types that are hitting the "Cya later" button in mass. I still calculate making more money on 2nd year pay at any of the Big 6 with 16% retirement/profit sharing.

Depends greatly on the airframe and mission. For the most part, the pilot community is fairly tight knit, but there are still individuals that don't like each other and there's a few trouble-makers/back-stabbers in every community. Normally, you can probably say that when your buddy is armed to literally save your hairy ass in a life or death situation, you've gotta be pretty tight with your fellow crewmembers/wingmen. I'd say the tight-knitness starts to loosen in the airlift/tanker world whether your are talking AD or the ARC. I wouldn't go as far as comparing SEALS to most of our pilot groups.

They should have paid Boeing to make new KC-135's years ago before the scrapped the tooling. New engines, new APU's, cockpit, etc.

I was told by a management pilot at a legacy airline recently that the USAF is briefing the airlines that they are 2,000 pilots short now.

Once you're in the Blended retirement system you're in it for life. There is no changing even if you go to the air reserve component.

This topic...

There is no "right country" over there.

My Fed BCBS paid for a $200,000+ surgery and only had maybe $1,500 out of pocket expenses. Tricare, while free, can be a PITA sometimes if you have to use it alot. A lot of providers don't take it. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

Who loves ATAAPS?! Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

With the way things are going at some of these units lately, anything is possible. A lot of these units are advertising these positions Nationwide. Years ago they would only advertise AGR positions within the unit for existing members. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

Exactly. This is the perfect (shit) storm with no real good option to stop it at this point. Their only hope is to get some AGR positions to hand to airline guys who already have a line number who wouldn't mind a temporary full-time gig to be "home every night" for 3 or 4 years to get their 20 (if they are close). We don't have many of people in that position though.. I don't think the AGR gig is going to be the best thing since sliced bread when they are the last men standing and they're getting slammed with all the work. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

They've had the chance to make the ART program better. Take the standard 30% pilot bonus out of locality. Add a standard pilot bonus after locality (doesn't have to be 30% but I would say at least 15% of base pay). Then add retention bonuses on top of that. Let technicians use TRICARE Reserve Select. Let us double dip the first day of orders like we used to. Give us a 2% to 1 retirement like ATC instead of 1 to 1. Lower the FERs contribution for Federal Employees back down to something closer to what it used to be (.8 vs. 4.4%).... those are just a few items to start with. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

How things have changed. Years ago they'd hire every new ART as a Step 1 or at least that's what my unit did. The ART program is such an antiquated system. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

Things are different in the ART world these days. They are handing out 25% bonuses. That's about $150k per year in ART pay alone at GS-13 Step 6-7. Not unheard of for O-4/5 types to be grossing near $200k with milpay. I am not at all, however, condoning staying an ART over airlines. It still swings the other way by year 2-3 at most companies working less than half as much. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

It's definitely region and unit/airframe dependant. I can tell you that the tanker units are hurting and any -135 unit near a metro area with an easy commute to an airline base are losing experienced full-timers like crazy. We are even seeing issues with keeping traditionals. There are other options out there for some. Points only and non-flying jobs. Continuous CENTCOM and PACOM rotations are thinning us out. It's a double-edged sword. Deploying a full-timer for 69 days out of a shop that may only be one or two deep with no backup makes it hard to manage an operation so you lean on the traditionals a little more for deployments. There is a price to pay for that though. That usually means the full-timers are filling more shorter trips and 60+% of the local flying schedule. It's a juggling act. We've got people going on 10 years of continuous CENTCOM rotations. Most of them are in that 15-20 years TOS range and after a while some people just get tired. It's only going to get worse as AD moves more -135's to the ARC as the -46 rolls in. There are so many variables to this issue it's hard to lay it on any one of them; heads in the sand, our inherent propensity to not look past our noses, disfunction at the unit level, disfunction at the MAJCOM, an aggressive rebound of the economy/airline industry and baby boomer retirements. Of course most of this could have been predicted and acted on a decade ago, but the DoD and Congress aren't known for acting quickly and efficiently on much of anything. I can tell you from experience that when multiple ART jobs hit the street and the only people who apply are Lt's fresh out of FTU, we've got issues. This is how it's been for the past few years. Take a gander at USAjobs to see just how many GS Pilot jobs are out on the street right now. 10 years ago you couldn't buy an ART job. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

Ok. I'm not really talking about being on "terminal leave" by blowing banked ART annual leave, but actively showing up to work your ART job M-F while waiting for training. I realize different airlines may have different policies, but for example; Company X pays you from Day #1 of Indoc. An ART takes leave to do Indoc, but then has a 6-8 week wait for aircraft training so instead of resigning from his ART job, he goes back to work as an ART and resigns two weeks before his aircraft training starts, essentially "double-dipping". I have no doubts guys have done it, but of course that doesn't make it legal. The OPM talks about ethics issues and such, but none of which would apply to an airline job. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

Any ARC dude/dudets here that used to be ART's before bailing for airlines? If so... What are the legalities of staying in an ART position, but taking leave through indoc and then continuing to work as an ART while waiting for aircraft training (if say it takes 6-8 weeks to get into a class)? Can you do it or is it against company policy? As far as I can tell, it is not against OPM rules to have a second job while you are a federal employee. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

Those units doing it probably aren't doing it because they truely condone it. They're doing it because the sky is falling, which in this day and age, is not quite a metaphor. For years, the ARC prided themselves with an overly experienced and thoroughly vetted full-time force, but we just don't have that option anymore. It's not something any of us particularly like, but it's reality. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

The way things are going these days (ie: bleeding full timers - at least in the tanker world), most units will be desperate to get experienced, qualified crew members willing to keep the lights on. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

In my unit, this won't happen in time. This should have happened 5 or 6 years ago to keep full-timers from leaving for the airlines, but that's par for the course for the way the government operates in general. Totally reactionary and never proactive. What they really should have gotten authorized was a way to mobilize traditionals to come in and keep the lights on for when there's noone left willing to stay in full-time positions. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

I've heard that it is coming to the ANG "soon", but aside from the younger dudes that don't have enough flight time to get to a major airline, most people aren't interested in the idea. We do, however, have a few DSG's that would be willing to go on mil leave from their company to come back for more AD points with short AGR tours. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk