BashiChuni

NATO existed to fight the soviet union. when the cold war ended, and russia was broke, they wanted to join europe. we vehemently said no. that is by definition russia extending a olive branch to the west. post 1990 there was NO reason to keep expanding NATO, a MILITARY ALLIANCE, right up to the border of russia. the russians told us this would piss them off. our own intelligence said that would piss them off. we DGAF and did it anyway. and now we are FAFOing

because in 1990 we fucking beat them and the cold war was over. it was us vs the soviets not us vs russia

russia wanted to join nato. rebuffed. russia wanted a peace deal. the US scuttled it. russia warned us not to keep advancing nato east. rebuffed. russia warned us that ukraine joining nato was a red line. we plowed full steam ahead in 2008...disregarding warnings from Germany and France AND our own CIA. these are facts and they are undisputed. the facts are the US has been poking russia in the eye since 1990s because we can.

i cannot wait for Trump to shut down this ukraine misadventure.

especially after pissing away lives and treasure the past two decades in forever middle east wars. some of you are SO eager to get right back into it.

apples to oranges.

so way back in 2008 our intelligence people were saying that adding ukraine to nato or even talking about adding them will touch off instability in the region. and a possible civil war. why do it? is that really spreading peace and democracy? or are other factors at work. we knew there was a hornet nest on the ground and decided to kick it. then blame the hornets. and now that the russians are reacting precisely the way our CIA predicted they would, some of you want to start WW3. you're being played and manipulated.

not an agreement, but minutes of a conversation between sec state baker and Soviet Foreign Minister Shevardnadze in 1990. https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/document/16115-document-04-memorandum-conversation-between why is it in NATO's interest to expand up to the borders of Russia? what does that possibly gain? --- https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/apr/04/nato.russia "The Russian president, Vladimir Putin, today repeated his warning that Moscow would view any attempt to expand Nato to its borders as a "direct threat". - 2008 https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2022/02/27/us-nato-expansion-ukraine-russia-intervene/ Senior US government officials knew as far back as 2008 that the possibility of adding Ukraine to NATO was seen as a serious “military threat” by Russia, one that crosses Moscow’s security “redlines” and could force it to intervene. Yet Western leaders continued insisting that Ukraine would join the US-led military alliance, right up until Russia did indeed intervene in February 2022. But privately, US diplomats knew that this move would be seen as an existential threat by Moscow, and could provoke Russian military intervention in Ukraine. The former US ambassador to Russia, William J. Burns, who is now director of the CIA, warned in a February 2008 embassy cable that Ukraine constituted a security “redline” for Moscow. below is now CIA director Burns memo in 2008 ---

trump is on record wanting to end the war in ukraine quickly.

23:00 28:00

hypothetical argument that i have never proposed. it deserves no response.

glad you're a warmongering cuck who blindly supports the flag officer/politician class...and who will always "jump" when someone says "war". sad to see. korea, vietnam, all the cia coups, GWOT failures...none of that matters to you. You're ALWAYS doing the right thing spreading that american democracy around the globe. WW3? nah. don't be a pussy. it's gonna be FINE shooting american made weapons inside russian territory. putin isn't really serious about any of his red lines. oh you have reservations about that? YOU MUST BE SUPPORTING PUTIN WHAT A SIMP! /s

it's a fact. they are not nato and we should not be supporting them. if you read history tell me what the US promised Russia in the early 1990s? you think the US would stand for Canada joining a Chinese military alliance? the level of stupidity that some of you "officers" have is mindblowing.

i'm not supporting them you DOLT! there are circumstances that the US/NATO have done since 2014 that have lead to Russia deciding to invade. being blind to historical foreign policy won't magically make the russians go away. don't be manipulated like a fool

you are a simpleton. learn some context and history. ukraine isn't nato.

https://apnews.com/article/biden-ukraine-long-range-weapons-russia-52d424158182de2044ecc8bfcf011f9c very irresponsible from the "biden" administration. hopefully we can avoid WW3 until trump takes over and the "adults are back in the room"

If you really think he did that with no reasons you’re a historical retard. Truly.

keep feeding yourself the delusion. ukraine is not NATO. and should never become nato. the west provoked putin's actions. a total retarded and unnecessary war.

“If people go to only one source, and the source they go to is sick and, you know, has an agenda, and they’re putting out disinformation, our First Amendment stands as a major block to the ability to be able to just, you know, hammer it out of existence,” said Kerry. “So what you need, what we need is to win the ground, win the right to govern by hopefully having, you know, winning enough votes that you’re free to be able to implement change,” he added. ------------------ This election, in Kerry’s view, will determine if the government will be able to wield power with enough force and speed to suppress free speech. “I think Democracies are very challenged right now, and have not proven they can move fast enough or big enough to deal with the challenges that we are facing, and to me that is part of what this race, this election is all about,” said Kerry. Statements from both Vice President Kamala Harris and her running mate, Gov. Tim Walz (D-Minn.), appear to confirm Kerry’s claim that the 2024 election will decide the future of the First Amendment. “There’s no guarantee to free speech on misinformation or hate speech, and especially around our democracy,” said Gov. Walz on MSNBC in a resurfaced clip.

ah yes...voting to prevent government censorship (violating the 1st amendment, something the biden administration has been CAUGHT doing) is "abandoning the constitution". do you hear what you're saying? you sound stupid. stop it. get some help.

I know. And I’m happy you don’t think all countries should have a say in our foreign policy as you eloquently wrote below. Which is exactly why the US should tell Zelenskyy and Ukraine to pound sand and negotiate for peace. Something tulsi will be in favor of. “Zip ahead to 4:45 when she goes into "just like we wouldn't want Venezuela to come to our country..." to over throw our government, we shouldn't go into theirs...blah, blah, blah. It underscores this neo liberal idea(l) that all country's are equal and get to have an equal say in the way the world works. Nah. No thanks. Venezuela's merry-go-round of dictators don't get to have an equal say in the way the world works because they're a so-called country with borders on the map.”

Tulsi correctly analyzed the Ukraine disaster in 2022.