ILoveScotch

I dunno, then ask Pawnman, I guess. It was his argument.

I'm not talking about initial commitments. I'm talking about bonus commitments...

You could upgrade to the 9 year after the fact. Not sure if you still can but I know someone who did.

Late to rate: Not the same aviation commitment or experience level. Prior enlisted: Same as above. Missed gate months: Thats a lot of missed gate months. I see your point. But now instead of $25k/yr difference in pay, it's a $60k/yr difference. I can see there being trouble.

I know it's in the proposed NDAA, but I can't see them offering $60k/year, at least not right off the bat. Probably some sort of gradual increase, spread out over a decade or so. A sudden increase in bonus would be massively detrimental to good order and discipline. What's the incentive to perform if someone who's trained the same as you is getting paid up to $35k more per year for the same signed commitment, just because he was in the magic year group? 365's only go so far as a cattle prod. I can see the Air Force Times headline now: "Shortage in the cockpit: Pilots to get $540k extra to stay". Terrible optic for the force as a whole. Gradual increases would be easier to stomach. On the other side of the coin, guys are going to be looking at that $60k authorization and holding off on signing up on the hopes it hits $60k in a year or so. Poor option to optimally manage the force. You may keep the numbers you need for staff, but overall quality will definitely decline. I think monthly flight pay is the better route to success, with dramatic increases after 10 YAS, but they only upped it $150/month on the top end. Too little to matter, really.

Great learning opportunity indeed. To the new co's/lt's or anyone who's considering a career in the Air Force: take a look around on this forum. By and large, you'll find examples of attitudes which, if you make the mistake of emulating, will not bode well for your career. Oh sure, you'll make friends, and you'll probably be popular in your social cliques at work. But the truth of the matter is that being cool and having all that swagger -- really, rebelling against your employer, more or less -- is not what being an officer is all about. Yes, you can be a pilot and a good officer at the same time. You can even be a really good pilot while being a really good officer. At some point you will be expected to be a company man, particularly if you ever want to experience command (of people, not just a jet). The Air Force doesn't require you to be popular. Follow the core values, and set the example for your peers and those below you. "Service before self"... really think about what that means. Does it mean you get to focus totally on flying, and leave all that other officer stuff to lesser people? No, it doesn't, particularly in the fiscal environment our nation finds itself in. Before you complain and moan about how you're getting screwed, take a moment and dig deep... is this even supposed to be about you the individual? What does "serving your country" even mean, if it must be on your preconceived terms? A lot of these guys are poor examples to follow. Don't just blindly follow the advice of the popular guy. Think for yourself, consistently do the right thing, and be a good leader. Do these things and you should do great. And now for some more snark from the peanut gallery...

You're projecting again. What is it with you F-16... excuse me, ahem... "Viper" pilots?

Ah, the 'ole argument by homosexual reference. 60% of the time, it works every time. Classy.

You guessed wrong. I'm nobody particularly special. A late bloomer, actually. Someone who regrets the bad attitude he picked up from the cool kids crowd early in his career. Live and learn. I know, it's shocking to think that one of your own isn't a jaded O-4 who rags on and on about how horrible life is (I mean, the man IS holding us all down with these CBTs, amiright?) while doing better financially than 89% of the rest of the country. This was supposed to be a flying club, wasn't it? That's what the brochure said, IT'S NOT FAIR!!! Don't forget to collect your awesome bro-points on your way out...

You're right, must be a different Air Force. Good luck, fellas, I may very well not go RPAs after all.

No, I agree that it's hard to smile when eating a shit sandwich, if that's truly what it is. I can't deny the terrible locations. From what I've heard, long hours as well. There are clearly valid downsides to RPAs. But is it not true that there's at least a few upsides? There's got to be some mission satisfaction... It's been my experience that sarcasm is rarely if ever productive. It attracts the ire of leadership because it solves nothing, and yet is so toxic to morale and unit cohesion. It's the self licking ice cream cone where Bros start trying to one up each other to see who can make the more outlandish sarcastic comments. That's the black mold to avoid at all costs, in my opinion. There's ways to provide constructive criticism. I understand those ways haven't paid dividends yet. The answer isn't sarcasm. Let's figure out how we can make it suck less. Who knows, there COULD be more like me who never considered RPAs because we were always told through the bro network that it was the worst thing on the planet, to be avoided at all costs. I've talked to seasoned RPA guys. No, it's not all gum drops and rainbows. But there are some plusses to the job. You guys are kicking more ass than 99% of the rest of us, and you get to stay home. True, you do lose your bragging rights, and if that's important to you then join the rest of us who don't fly A-10s.

As an recent O-4 bonus taker, I'd have to make $150k on the outside to pull in what I currently take home in net pay. Yes, that means you'd have to stay in...

It's not a democracy, that's what you need to figure out. I know we're pilots, and bitching is what we as a community do...all the goddamn time. But bitching will get you nowhere. Either vote by leaving when able, or stay and get promoted so you can try and make your small contribution to solve the problem. Whether or not you are unhappy is secondary to the mission. That's just the way it has to be. When possible, leadership should fight for quality of life. But mission comes first, always has. Let's change the attitude and talk up the good parts of the job. I'm a pilot, i'm used to the bitching. But everyone else looks at us and wonders what our problem is. Again, $150k/yr to fly droids overseas from the safety of our computer screens, blowing bad guys up every once in a while. No, it doesnt set you up too well for that cush airline job in the sky. Too bad. I'm a taxpayer, and I frankly don't give a shit if you don't get that airline job. Meanwhile, much of the rest of the country is unemployed, underemployed and/or living in their parents basement. Get some perspective. Nobody owes you anything. The air force doesnt owe you an airplane to fly. That's the truth. Deal with it.

No, I'm suggesting you quit with the sense of entitlement. You serve at the pleasure of the president. Right now, the president, via the chain of command, wants you in RPAs. So try and make the most of it. You want airplanes. Too bad. It's not about you. Some of us are trying to help by volunteering. Maybe we can get some more, if we don't talk about RPAs as being a leper colony. That's all I'm saying. This shit should be obvious. We're supposed to be officers. This is leadership 101.

I'd reply but you'll just dismiss me as a troll. Whatever. Get out when you're eligible, try not to ruin it for the rest of us.

If you were less of a douche, maybe more would consider switching to RPAs, possibly helping resolve the manning dilemma preventing you from getting back into a "real airplane". Or you could keep calling it a black hole from which there is no escape. That'll help.

Yes, certain death from mustard gas is quite the concern in your air conditioned GCS at home in the USA. Guaranteed $150k/year to fly robots in this economy, boo hoo life is so tough...

Reinforcements are on the way. I volunteered 9 months ago, think I'll maybe see orders this fall. Who knows, though. Some of us think what you guys do is pretty badass. I dunno, maybe I'll hate it, but I doubt it. Attitude is everything.

I suspect it won't be long before a human operator isn't even required. Ground guy drops a target on a secure handheld moving map display, selects ordnance from drop down menu and hits "call for fire". RPA maneuvers itself appropriately and releases ordnance, providing time till impact on said display. Soon, my friends. It's just a matter of time/code...

There's something to be said about not putting an 18 year old COD player fresh out of basic behind a hellfire. But a mature TSgt? I dunno, don't really see the big deal. Would sure free up a lot of pilots...

Because death from above is different than death from the ground. Come on, man... we don't get paid more because our finger is on the button.

Burdened... lol.

Hard for me to believe that the reason we can't find better locations for RPAs is comm infrastructure spending. That's all I'm saying. Where there's a will, there's a way. Problem is, there's no will from leadership. This needs to change.

I am. Comm infrastructure was complete shit when we took over.