FDNYOldGuy

I dunno about “illustrious,” @Unit#8192; that’s like Joe Dirt putting an “e” on the end to class it up. Haha. @Erthwerm, the advice my bro Unit gave you is solid. You’ll have a little easier time because you’re prior service and have an interesting story, but I think “the great pilot shortage” window that has eased rules for those of us needing waivers is rapidly closing with Coronas and a tanking economy (mainly airlines). They’ve already slammed the brakes on the UPT pipeline, so they likely have more people already hired but not started than they can cycle through right now. That doesn’t make it impossible, but it’s gonna very likely be tougher going forward. So, you’ve gotta move. If you look back through this site and my other posts, there has been a lot deeper discussion into a lot of what I’m gonna tell you, but here’s my Cliff’s Notes: You're probably too old for fighters. It’s certainly not impossible and certainly try, but I’d focus heavies or helos (you might like HH-60s and CSAR) hard and fast if mil flying is your goal. They flat out won’t send you to IFT if you have a PPL and you’re better off. It’s an extra month of delay that, IMHO (and I didn’t go; just going off of others’ takes), isn’t worth it. Skip all you can to get to UPT ASAP. This is especially true if you go the Guard route. Not bashing Guard bros, but the pipeline takes way longer than the Reserves. Guard has to individually plan each piece of training, so there can be big gaps. Not good for old folks, because the waiver is for when you start UPT. Reserves will put you on orders the day you leave for OTS and you’ll be in training/on orders until you’re through PIQ. Another piece of 3 is you’ll only work with one Reserves officer recruiter. Guard you’ll have to run through each unit recruiter’s process, which can be time consuming. Either one you’ll have to apply to each unit individually, but the paperwork part is handled by one recruiter. Build your packet and send it out ASAP to get the balls (sts) rolling at multiple units. The process is a long one and time isn’t on your side; it can take 6mo-2yrs from getting hired to starting the pipeline. Ask away for any other questions you might have. It’s not impossible, but it’s not easy. Lots of legwork on your own will go a long way to getting you hired and speed up the process. Good luck!

I get verbose, so here's the TL;DR: The training pipeline is a very time consuming and stressful time. You'll have 3-4 months of time you'll have to be apart no matter what due to types of training. If you come with him, your support will certainly help him; but realize that he might not be able to be as engaged in the relationship or reciprocating of the support. You may also have trouble finding work, as UPT bases are in the middle of nowhere small towns. If you stay back home, you'll spend a long time apart from one another; being alone will allow him to focus more on studying, but the stress of the program and strain on your relationship may make it tough for him to actually stay and complete the training. Regardless of what you choose, it's not going to be an easy road, but it's manageable if you have the right expectations (whichever you choose), your relationship is in the right place, and you both understand that the sacrifices made are just short term; things will get better and return to more normalcy as time goes along. Here's the longer, more in-depth version: My .02 from inside UPT now and what I've experienced/heard from other UPT folks. I'm late-30's, married, and we had a 7 month old when this adventure started and enjoyed living in New York City. I brought them with me and it's been much better. Even if I decided to complicate things further by adding another kiddo to the mix, arriving before the end of UPT. First, I went the Reserves route, because your training is all in one continuous line; he'll start OTS and will be on full-time orders from day 1 until popping out the other end (about 2 years) as a trained and unit-qualified pilot. The Guard has more breaks in training, where he might go to OTS, come home for a few months, then to SERE (takes a month), then home, then to UPT (takes a year), then home, then FTU (3-9 months, depending on airframe), then to his home unit. The breaks could be nice if you were staying put, but they could be more of a PITA if you're going with him and pulling up roots at your current home. You're going to 100% have to spend OTS (2 months) IFT (6 weeks, I think. He'll have to go to this if he doesn't have his pilot's license before starting UPT/skips it if he does), and SERE (one month) apart, as you really have no ability to go with him to any of that, so you'll be separated regardless. Then comes to the big chunk of time and stress; UPT. To make a bunch of long stories short, the gist I've seen from multiple folks and is that, unless you're PREPARED to spend that much time apart, it is VERY hard to be successful at UPT without family with you. I know more people that have dropped due to not having families come with them and only know a few folks, every one of them prior military service folks that have dealt with separation before, that are doing okay without their families here. So, if you're not used to spending serious time apart, it's very possible the strain can be too much for the relationship. The downsides of you coming are also notable. First is that UPT is a very demanding schedule and 12 hour days (just the time he'll be gone; not including him studying/mission planning at home) are very common. He'll be target-locked on studying and likely not be able to give as much time to you/your relationship as you're used to, since free moments are few and far between at many points. If you're used to him helping out a lot around the house, cooking dinner together, being able to sit and talk/watch TV with you for hours each night, etc., it'll likely be reduced greatly as he'll have to go study. Or, if he does still try to give that time to your relationship, he's going to be sacrificing the studying time and likely not doing as well in the program. There's only so much time in the day. Personally, I have had many moments where I needed to study and the need to be an engaged husband and father also required my attention. I've certainly erred toward my family over hitting the books as hard, which has certainly affected my performance, but those are the calculated decisions I've chosen to make. Everyone does their own math and handles it all differently. If he is a perfectionist or struggles more with some aspects along the way, just realized he might choose differently. Many people have done it and made it all work, but each person is different and you'll have to take a long look at yourselves and how you think you'll handle it. There's also the inability to get out of "this life" in that the bases are pretty much only for training pilots, so everyone is in the same boat. That can be good for support, but he is going to live and breathe UPT, which means you likely will, too. Your social interactions will involve him with other UPT students talking shop and you hanging with spouses that are also likely very involved with talking about UPT-related things. You're going to know where you're going being Guard/Reserves, so that stress doesn't exist for you guys, really. You're also on the older side (like we are), so your life experiences, wants, and needs may be different from other students (most are single) and spouses that might be fresh out of college, not working/never had a career, not thinking about kids, etc. Last big piece if you come with: UPT bases are in the middle of nowhere, so jobs can be tough to come by if you have something specialized that only exists in bigger cities. It's very likely the pay will be quite a bit lower; although your bills are much lower, so it kinda evens out. That said, chances of you finding a PR/Communications job you love as much as your current job (unless you can work remotely) close to one of the UPT bases are going to be pretty slim. Again, YMMV and I'm certainly not trying to scare you. But, it's important to have rational and managed expectations of what the choice makes. It's an amazing thing and extremely rewarding, but it's not without pitfalls. But, that's life. Haha. Anyway, sorry this got long. Feel free to ask away with any other questions you might have! Good luck to you both!

Not sure how wide-ranging you're looking, but civil service is another solid option. Most cities and departments will let you buy up to 3 years of prior military service from before you're hired, then you have another 5 years of USERRA protection after you're already on the job. OTS/SERE/UPT/(potentially?)FTU do not count toward that limit because they're "School" orders, so that 5 year is theoretically longer because the ~1.5 years of school are exempt from USERRA 5 year limit. At least for NYC, as @Chida said above, any named operations can be eligible for differential pay, too, which is a huge benefit (mainly because you're also able to pay into retirement plans). I'm not getting the differential pay while in school, but my time is still clicking off toward my retirement. I'll have to pay into the pension a % of salary to "buy" the years that I've been gone when I get back, but it's still nice to have the clock still rolling. Another positive is FD or PD are very similar to military life (camaraderie, excitement, etc.), so the work risk/reward happiness is similar. So is the bureaucratic BS, but that's kinda life. This similarity also flows over (usually) into extra military leave pay to attend military obligations, but those benefits can vary greatly by department/city agency. Lastly, you'll also get Veterans' points that can help move your name up a list. They can be used while trying to get hired, or for promotional exams after already employed. Lots of benefits, similarities, and symbiotic relationships between civil and mil service, if that's your bag.

You're fine and, if you interview well, you likely won't get more than a passing rib of math not being your strong suit. My quant was about half of yours (the rest of my scores were comparable to yours) and, besides for a ball-breaking in the interview with me admitting I'm a bit math...challenged..., not one person has mentioned a thing about my bad Quant score. Knock the TBAS out of the park, put together a solid packet, and interview well, no one is likely gonna care about the scores.

Just a still-in-UPT-dummy bubba here with just some anecdotal/not likely super helpful info, but we've had access to it for all of UPT. I don't think I saw any IPs use it during T6s, but I did just have one use it recently during Toners. It was pretty in-depth and seemed to break down each section of the flight (pretty sure I saw being able to map a specific approach, too), which was quite a bit more than the green lines Foreflight is giving. Again, I don't know how to use it personally (and we're not supposed to have Location Services on, anyway), but it did seem to be pretty useful when the one IP I've seen rock it went through our flight in debrief.

Know a Maj and quite a few Captains going through UPT (both Guard/Reserve and Active), so it really doesn’t seem to be an issue.

That’s the short, short version of exactly what’ll happen. The unit can help if you hit stumbling blocks with the recruiter, but your unit will have little to do with you again until you finish at your FTU in about 1.5-2 years and start your Prog/seasoning tour. MEPS, FC1, swearing in, and Reserve Board are going to be recruiter handled; OTS, IFT (if you need it), SERE, UPT, and FTU are all handled by the 340th. The recruiter will get you to MEPS, get all your initial paperwork done (be ready to send and resend things a thousand times), get you scheduled for FC1 (can take awhile, so push hard to get there), get your application to the Reserve UPT board (similar to applying to a unit), and then swear you in. All of that has to be done before the recruiter will get you gained by the 340th. The 340th will pick up the ball from there.

Thank you again for the help and pointing me in the right direction! I appreciate you taking the time.

Awesome. Thank you for the reply; it's a huge help. I wasn't sure exactly what type of orders would be the "best" for the family of what's possible and was definitely unsure what was most beneficial WRT TDY en route/PCS then TDY/TDY then PCS. I'm a Reservist and I'll be going through the 340th FTG to get the orders written, so the structure and who can help push things in a good direction is a little different. Our 340th LNO here is great, so I'm sure I can utilize him once I have more of an idea what I should do. I am sure I could also call in some help from my gaining unit (the 340th "owns" us for the pipeline until the end of PIQ, then the home unit gains us for Prog Tour), but I don't want to bug them yet since they don't have control over any of it and would more be coming in more as an advocate/"could you help our guy out." I have looked at AirBnB and wasn't sure how that would play in, exactly. From some research, it seems those are acceptable per JTR, but I wasn't 100% sure how to go about going that route or what my limits were. Do I need to get the Non-A from Kelly lodging to be able to go for an AirBnB, or am I allowed up to a certain amount per day per the JTR? IIRC from initial Inprocessing at Randolph, we could get $70/night for lodging (we ended up with a Non-As there and stayed in a hotel). If I went the AirBnB route, would I get the $70/night for the month (eg, $2100 cap for a 30 day month) for the AirBnB? I did see a couple there that fit the bill with a quick search, so it's definitely an option. Thank you again for the help and I appreciate you taking the time. I've tried to dig a little into it myself, but there aren't a lot of other easy resources here since we're all in the same UPT boat and I don't have much extra time to go too far down the rabbit hole.

Hello, all. I wasn't sure what Discussion Group this fell best into, but this one seemed to have more family-specific questions. Barring any unforeseen issues, I'll be heading to Kelly for PIQ here in a few months and I'm looking to bring my family with me. I was wondering if you folks might have some pointers on helping to make that happen. I gather they won't put any family provisions on my orders for a TDY, but I'm trying to figure out the best way to go about it all since they are coming with me. As of now, I'll likely have to have a TDY en route or TDY from UPT because I've got a tight turn between UPT graduation and my first day of PIQ class. There likely won't be enough time to PCS all the way to my gaining base (Reservist, also, if that matters any) and back to San Antonio in the days between. I know there's lodging at Kelly they initially want us in, but it seems like it's not impossible to get a Non-A or, perhaps, the JTR allows other accommodation? I've had a little more trouble locating a family crash pad, as most seem to be closer to Randolph for PIT or more based on single folks sharing a Real World house, but I've heard that there are family crash pads out there. Have any of you had similar experiences of bringing family TDY or getting a family crash pad and have any tips? Any pitfalls to look out for? Should I aim for a specific TDY setup (en route, PCS first, TDY then PCS) in my orders, if I can swing it? Thank you in advance.

If you're Reserves, I'd doubt that you'll have that much of a break. They like to keep you on solid orders from start to finish with no more than 30 days break in training (causes them more paperwork?). Got a buddy in OTS right now, leaves for IFT 2 days after OTS graduation, then right to SERE, then immediate PCS to UPT. Don't think he's got more than 4 days break between any of the different training pieces. I had some longer stretches between OTS-SERE-UPT, but still nothing more than 30 days. You're also not "owned" by your unit until you're spit out at the other end of the pipeline post-FTU, so you won't be going to drill with them. You might, if anything, go to your UPT base and get a casual job. Guard will give you longer breaks between training pieces, but I haven't heard of anyone in the Reserves having 3+ months. Then again, maybe the shortage of slots has changed things up?

First Assignment Instructor Pilot. Basically, you graduate pilot training with wings and, instead of getting sent to a MWS/another base, you get sent to Pilot Instructor Training (PIT) and come back to instruct T6s. Usually T6s and usually at the base you just left UPT from, but there are exceptions. Only been for AD folks, but brought up as a potential for Unsponsored Reservists.Yet to see it happen, though. The active orders for 4 years is roughly encompassing all training from OTS through unit seasoning in your aircraft. 2-3 years is more likely for mobility and tankers, with the up to 4 years likely being for the more in-depth fighter training/seasoning.

I haven’t heard of that out of the gate. There was talk of allowing Unsponsored folks to FAIP, which would obviously be 3-4 years of AD orders, but I haven’t heard of it panning out. You could come back full time as an IP under the Reserves (~15% of IPs are Reservists), but that would take time in service and time with an MWS/unit before happening. More likely, if you didn’t get picked up by a unit by UPT completion, you’d just get shuttled to a unit that was undermanned by the 340th. You’re going to be pretty desirable to a unit while at UPT and will likely get hired by someone, unless you’re really jamming up in the interview process.

🥃 Is the link supposed to be direct for him? It’s not populating the info fields for “in memory of” or putting his name anywhere on the page that’s coming up for me when I click it. Certainly no issue just donating to the cause, but I’d love to have it go in his memory, if I can.

Of course, dude! It really is a great community and I strongly recommend giving it a shot. If you just want to be a part of it, no matter the airframe, it certainly isn't an impossible goal. If you're 100% set on "fighters or nothing," then you are going to have quite an uphill battle. Again, nothing is impossible until you've heard the last "No."

Eh, this is certainly true for a great candidate being able to accomplish anything, but it is even further along to age being a big issue. Having been here now, there is something to the old-dog-new-tricks concerns they have about older folks in UPT; especially in the fighter track. The pressure to perform, put time in, and pick it up quickly is very real in the 38 track and it starts in T6s from day 1. A young candidate is going to be way more moldable, have much more free time to study and focus solely on the program, and just flat out have more brain space available to cram in GK than an older person that has a ton of other life/job/etc. taking up space in there already, in most cases. I have quite a few points to that I think back it up, but in the vein of brevity (not my strong suit), UPT is a young person's game. Multiple IPs said the same to me in their teaching experience: The old folks seem to struggle in the beginning, but come on strong later when it all starts to get put together. But, that's not conducive to the T38 track. You've gotta hit the ground running in T6s, catch on quick, and be top-performing from the beginning to give them the confidence you're going to succeed down the road. Of course, if you've been picked up by a fighter unit and have a guaranteed 38 slot, the pressure to earn that slot competing with others is removed, but the pressure to perform perfectly isn't. And that continues throughout fighter career which, again, can be harder for older folks to be okay with. Again, it's not the case 100% of the time, but it's what .02 is from my short run in this world.

The 37 year-old mentioned above checking in. Let me start by saying I’m certainly not one to listen to being told things are impossible, or else I wouldn’t be where I am now. Even more so, I don’t wanna piss on anyone’s dreams. You never know til you try. That said, the advice above is as solid as it gets and you should take a long hard look at what you want. Is flying for the military what’s important, or flying fighters all you want? You’ve got an extremely high goal and are standing in a less than perfect position. Your age is a huge hurdle for fighters. While you don’t need a waiver this instant being < 33, that timeline of a year or two is solid and the cap is age at UPT start, so you’ll have to get a waiver. Guard/Reserve fighter units are REALLY not likely to do waivers and active duty doesn’t do them at all, AFAIK. Your AFOQT scores are likely too low for fighters and your TBAS won’t likely be high enough with the lower Pilot/Nav scores and no flight hours. The GPA and possession charge aren’t going to make it any easier, either. @EvilEagle is a legend and his word might as well be gospels. Especially with his love of V-Twins from that bike list...although I’m biased and had a few sport twins in my past; including a TL. Again, I’m not one to take or believe “it can’t be done,” but he’s very right in the time, effort, and money it will take to even see if it’s possible. If your goal is to fly mil, time spent chasing fighters and battling 50 other people for 1 slot could be better used working on rushing heavy units. Anyway, I wish you the best, dude. Nothing is impossible and, if you want it bad enough, put in the work and see what happens. It ain’t over until you’ve heard (and accepted) the last “No.”

Exactly what was said above, with a further caveat: you get to start the clock on your TSP matches. Your only option will be blended retirement, which involves getting a match on your TSP contributions. The kinda shit part is Uncle Sam won’t start matching (up to 5%) until you’ve been making your own contributions for 2 years. Well, guess how long your guaranteed full-time active training time for OTS/SERE/UPT/PIQ/Seasoning is? About two years... So, earlier you can start contributing, means you can hopefully catch some of the tail end of your full time orders and get a few more Spacebucks out of Uncle Sam. Just make sure you start putting into your TSP when you get your first checks/MyPay setup for drill weekends and you can get ahead of the game a bit. It’s not a crazy amount of money, but it’s a little something extra.

You won’t drill with the 340th or your gaining unit as a Reservist before UPT; the 340th doesn’t have drills for UPT pipeline and won’t let you drill with your home unit. You’ll just be on DEP, basically. You’ll swear in, but you won’t be doing anything until you leave for your first piece of the pipeline. Your sponsoring unit has no control over you until you head to your PIQ/FTU. 340th handles your school/travel, pay, leave, orders, etc., so your home unit is just waiting for you to pop out at the other end with some wings.

Totally feasible; especially for heavies. I got waivered off the street at 36 (technically 37, by the time I started UPT). It’s all in how hard you’re willing to hustle to get there, but a lot of my hustle was in getting the stuff that was needed (test scores, medical, recruiting paperwork, etc.) done before/right after getting hired. Get your AFOQT and TBAS done (when you’re ready to test); sooner the better. If you get 80s-90s on Pilot, Nav, and PCSM, you’ll get a lot more attention from recruiters and units. You said you needed a medical waiver, which is another huge hurdle and something that might give units pause, so get rolling on going to MEPS and, if it’s possible, try to get an FC1 out of the way to ensure those med waivers don’t hold you back. You’ll have to have that before you go to a UPT board and that takes time. Get a solid packet together and get working with a recruiter if you’re looking at Reserves options. A single Reserves recruiter can handle any Reserves unit you’re interested in; Guard will have individual recruiters for each unit, which makes things tougher (but still doable; just more duplication of efforts). It’s all based on your hustle and anything is possible until you’ve heard ”Yes” or your final “No.” Keep networking, keep digging for what you can do next to help your cause, and don’t let any “No” answers dissuade you from trying more options. Part of it all is proving how bad you want it and putting in your own legwork and being persistent will go a long way to showing you’re serious. Good luck!

Here now, if you have any questions...

Still not mandatory unless it just recently changed. I didn't go and had a PPL and know there was another stud that wanted to go (even with a PPL) but wasn't allowed to. I had heard that they might have changed it to you'll have to go to IFT even with a PPL if you haven't flown in 2(3?) years, but I don't have a solid line on that.

There is a Reserve FTS here at Vance; The 5th FTS. We've had a couple guys fly with us in T6s and they aren't tied to specifically to us Reservists; they've flown with everyone in our class regardless of status. Wiki says the 5th instructs in 1s and 38s, too. Our Reserves LNO (officer who wrangles us Reservists at each UPT base), is attached to the 340th and also a 38 IP here. Not sure if he only flies with 340th 38 studs or not. Like @matmacwc said, these folks have been MWS trained and came back years later to instruct. It should be less than 30 days. I went to Inpro and was headed to OTS in 24 days from leaving Randolph and there were folks in our Inpro group that went to the class that started a week earlier than me, so definitely didn't have a 30 day wait. They try to keep a 30 day limit for breaks in training with the Reserves, so it's highly likely you'll be sent to SERE or IFT between OTS and UPT start. Some of my group went directly to SERE from OTS (seriously, the Monday after OTS graduation), others (myself included) PCS'd to UPT right after OTS then left for SERE a week or so after getting here, and others went to IFT and will hit SERE after UPT. YMMV, but that was the gist for our batch. Only a few folks that had already been to SERE or had a PPL and didn't have to go to IFT started right up with UPT after OTS. Their goal seems to be to keep training rolling over paying us to sit in a casual job, so they'll fit in what training they can.

For the Reserves, you can work with an officer recruiter to get you through the initial million forms of paperwork, get you scheduled for MEPS/TBAS/AFOQT (this will take a LOT of pushing on your part, but they can do it), and they can also have you apply for an Unsponsored slot. Unsponsored means you're picked up by the Reserves as a whole to go through pilot training and you just hustle to find a Reserves unit to sponsor you. If you don't get sponsored by the time you're done with UPT, they send you to whatever unit they need manning at. You can also start doing what others above have said and making contacts at units to set up your interviews. But, unless you're hired by the unit (unlikely if you don't have AFOQT/TBAS scores), you're still going to have to get ahold of the officer recruiter to get those things booked and done. Guard is completely different and each unit runs its own recruiter, so working with one unit's recruiter won't do you a lot of good if you're trying to get hired by another. And, as others said, they're more focused on enlisted folks, so they might not be able to help as much. Active is a different beast and I don't know anything about it, but there's good advice already in this thread about only applying for what you want and don't let them push you into a position you don't want. The whole process can take about 2 years (especially for Active and Guard), so get the ball rolling ASAP if you want to do it. Good luck!

You can definitely make it, if you have the drive, can market yourself well, and a unit wants to help push the waiver on their end. I'm here at 37. What @N730 said, is right, though: if you don't want pilot very badly, it's a WHOLE LOT of work and, if you're not completely dedicated, the workload might deter you. And, 100% it is harder to do when you're older. I've got my wife and 1 year old kiddo here with me and juggling all of it is not easy; twice as hard if you're trying to compare yourself to kids in their early-mid 20s that are likely better at studying and don't have any other obligations that take study time. But, it's completely doable. I was insanely lucky/put in a whole lot of hustle to get from hired to UPT (means 2 months of OTS and, in my case, a month of SERE in there, too) in less than a year. That's very quick and most of the time it takes closer to 2 years; especially if you get picked up by a Guard unit. Their timeline is quite a bit longer than Reserves, it seems. Lastly, your Pilot/Nav scores are a bit on the low side. I had the same quant as yours, so they're not really gonna care about that (maybe break your chops a bit), but I had 89 Pilot and 91 Nav. You need that TBAS ASAP, too, and if you can get in the 80s or higher, you might be okay. All that said, time is not your friend and you need to start applying ASAP. Put together a packet, have folks on here look through it and offer input (I can try to take a look, too, but time is definitely not something I get much of these days in the thick of T6s), and start sending it out to units that have open hirings. Apply to every airframe you'd be willing to fly and be persistent. Fighters are probably too much of a long shot for you, but there might be some heavy units that'll give you a look. Bottom line is you never know until you try and you're never out until the last place tells you, "No." I still have quite a few moments where I laugh and can't believe I'm actually here. But, I put in a lot of work, marketed myself as best I could, and got lucky along the way. If I can, anyone can. So, get moving! Good luck!