hockeydork

Anyone heading to denver and maybe wanna buddy up on rental car?

F*ck me, that looks so gnarly.

Doesn't appear to have worked, but I have always had this backward thought that maybe by trading heavily with China, they would "see the light" slowly over time, thus preventing a large scale conflict and aggression by intertwining their economy with the west. When they abolished term limits, it was game over. Only reason someone abolishes term limits is because they love power. What do people who love power do eventually? They conquer shit. Playing nice with the bully didn't work. If Aussies can see the writing on the wall...time to arm up.

I believe there are two books with the same title, and very different story lines. Likely an ordering mistake, and some mom blowing it way out of proportion. Are you like some Chinese guy half way across the world trying to incite division and fracture america? Just curious. If not, I'll take this "faggot" covering my ass any day over you dude.

In the end I think most humans don't like to be told what to do, doesn't matter whether the agenda you are trying to push is good or bad for whoever you are trying to push it on, and it doesn't matter whether they are smart or dumb. Your thought logic is that people should be free to make mistakes and learn the hard way. Totally agree. Problem is on a national "big decision level", some mistakes can only be made once and there are no do overs. We are (for the most part) a majority rules system, and the majority isn't always the smartest half. Is COVID one of those big decisions? I don't think so, those most vulnerable have access to the shot. Those who don't want it most likely will make it if they get COVID, if we lose a few stragglers, oh well.

Just that a nuclear sub with a COVID outbreak is probably a much bigger problem than the Redsox playing with half the roster.

I think there are two separate arguments getting blurred. There are some in the military who don't want to be vaccinated, which is different than civilian gen pop people who don't want it.

Country is split 50/50 on politics, and has devolved into basically two camps, both with the mentality of “if you aren’t with us, you’re against us”. This leads to people digging in their heels to stand their ground, right, wrong or indifferent, not based on their actual belief on the issue at hand, but based on how the issue has been tooled to meet the needs of their party. Talk to a Biden supporter about Trump, they’ll be all “f*ck Trump”. Talk to a Trump supporter about Biden, same deal. That right there is the crux of the issue, you have people so afraid of the other party and being labelled a dem or republican because of what other people might think about them. Same tactic that has been used for centuries to turn one group of people against the other is just being employed by both poltical parties. You can see it in the blatant hypocrisy that is rampant, which there are so many examples of, to list them would make me vomit. Edit to add: I wholeheartedly believe only way it will get fixed is a 3rd political party entering the fight. Would take a very strong leader, and significant republicans and democrats BOTH breaking off and saying enough is enough. A party where responsible gun ownership doesn't make you hate guns, wanting a secure border doesn't make you a racist, clean domestic energy (not from the middle east) doesn't make you tree hugging nerd, etc.

Looks like you figured it out. Most people don't ever need their seat belt or a helmet....until their brains are on the highway. Most people wear seat belts and helmets because the large consensus is that the trade off/inconvenience is worth the gain if something goes wrong, knowing full well it likely won't. It isn't my job to feel bad if someone chooses to disregard that. Maybe most people don't need the shot....until their the one getting packed into a box because their lungs imploded. Not my job to feel sorry for the guy with his brains on the highway...or the Idaho Joe in the ICU who coughs himself to death.

Agree with brabus age chart and /or underlying conditions would give more context. I don't think it will matter tho, there is just a portion of the population that does not what the shot and wants to roll the dice. Some people want to roll the dice and not wear a helmet on a bike or a seatbelt. You gotta let them do them at some point. If their brains end up all over the highway, you can't feel bad about it, that's what they chose. Torqued, while I disagree with a lot of what he says, does bring a valid concern that even with an effective shot...drug companies are maybe going to try and milk it? Me thinks the FAA and the insurance companies are going to be all over that like a hawk tho. Insurance companies don't like paying for stuff unless it's actually effective/needed.

What in society is not open right now? I do think there is validity to what you're saying, basically those who want the shot can get it, those who don't should just go mask free and if their gunna get COVID, get it over with.

You two trading blows isn't helping anything.

Long term you may indeed be right. There is something to be said for from an immunity standpoint would we have been better off all catching the same variant of COVID quickly with natural immunity. Like you said, who knows. The problem with that plan of action tho was the hospital capacity isn't/wasn't available. If this was just the common cold people wouldn't be stuck in the ICU due to COVID. Maybe from a population standpoint this was indeed the better move, but from an individual stand point not so much if you were the one who ended up getting rocked by the virus. If it was possible, it isn't, maybe the best thing would be to have every human lock themselves in a room for a few weeks. I don't know either dude, if there's a variant that starts cracking through the current vaxs defenses significantly, that is going to really suck for everybody. Let's both hope it doesn't happen.

We're cool, not trying to offend you either man. Sorry if it feels like I am saying someone who didn't get the shot's life would be easy to cast away/is worthless, that's not what I am intending to say. 1) So I am onboard with you on the argument if she's vaxxed, what is the problem than? She should be protected if the shot is so good like the drug companies/CDC/FDA supposedly say it is. We have talked about this, travel nurse salaries are insane right now. If she get's her booster (if it is recommended) I am fine with her going to work and taking care of vaxxed/unvaxxed people with the same level of care. The issue is only if there is a mutation that renders the shot ineffective, do I send her in to work? Am I going to send her into a hospital that is getting lit up with some new form of COVID to care for people who did not at least try to proactively defend against COVID? It's a crummy thought but it is very possible scenario. For humanity's sake let's hope this winter isn't a shit show regardless of anyone's vax stance. I am sure both you and I would rather be talking about anything else besides this issue. 2) I don't think saving/taking a life boils down to just vax status. Like you said...there are so many factors. But if all else is equal and hospitals are full, who do you save? Now if someone verified HAD COVID, and didn't get the shot, yes I concur that person is no different than a vaxxed person, so if you are a reinfected vaxxed person vs. a had actual COVID before the shot was available and got reinfected, same difference to me when you show up in the hospital. I think we're on the same page here. If you have never had COVID and won't get the shot, I think you're making a poor call. 3) What isn't the same difference is saying that getting REAL COVID is a "better" first time way to get the antibodies than the shot. This is very much a YMMV situation I guess. My friends mother in law didn't get the shot, ended up in rough shape in the hospital. Her Dad had already died from a heart attack too when his wife was little and was an athlete (heart defect), mother is fit. I got the shot, and was tired for a day. Was it worth her maybe not making it just to get the antibodies the natural way? Was it worth a 24 year old daughter potentially having no parents left because her mothers first exposure to COVID was the real deal? I don't think so, thankfully she recovered but damn, what if she hadn't? At the end of the day tho that was her decision, and I respect her rights, even tho I think it was still a bad decision. Immunity drops off over time, seems to be agreed upon not matter if you had the shot or real COVID. The difference is getting the antibodies by the shot isn't nearly as risky as getting them by going out and getting real COVID, at least per the FDA/CDC. Her getting real COVID landed her in the hospital. I sat in my bed and watched Netflix. If the damn thing didn't mutate I don't think there'd be anything wrong with stamping COVID out long term via a combo of natural immunity and vax. But it seems to me like in order to get rid of it you gotta squash it real quick by having everybody immunized at the same time. If it's only half the population that's immunized at a time, be it natural immunity or vax, the virus will just keep festering and mutating. Could we get everyone immunized naturally at once by spreading COVID rapidly? Sounds nuts, but I do think that would work, but we might lose some people. The shot seems like a better/safer way to do it. The border thing was just an analogy...that sometimes we cannot save everyone, even if we want to/they deserve it. Handshake.

My asthmatic GF is a soon to be nurse. Nothing hypothetical about that. She'll be exposed to the hospital environment all this fall, nothing hypothetical about that. So for me it isn't just a keyboard warrior issue. Should I send her into work to care for COVID patients, vax or unvaxxed? What if she gets it and can't pull out of it? Am I going to feel responsible? Would I feel better if she got sick trying to save a vaxxed person over an unvaxxed one? Not a surgeon, neither is pawnman, neither are you I'm assuming. And guess what, you aren't the CDC or the FDA who are telling you the shot is safe and effective. Nice appeal to a surgeons technical authority while also blindly ignoring the ones that are inconvenient for you. And nope, won't decide who lives or dies. At least I could decide tho. You'd just sit there with your "I don't know, let's help everyone" pants on. Let's open the borders than, every South American is a human just like you, let's help all of them get the American dream. Also...way to go with the condescending tone, nice civil debate turned hostile.

Applaud your indiscriminate empathy but you cannot hide behind "my action is no action/I don't know" if you are a leader. If there were to be another harsh outbreak, and hospital were to be over run, decisions have to be made. Do you save someone who at least tried to save themselves? If you had two car crash victims come in, identical traumas, your the only surgeon on staff, do you save the one who wore a seatbelt or the one who did not? I do want to point out that there are two "no shot" groups. I think there is a group who is legitimately scared about the shot not being tested enough. I empathize heavily with these people, they are just trying to stay safe and make the correct call like anyone else. The other group is trying to prove some political point/live up to some tough guy ethos/fvck covid I ain't no bitch. Some people are just difficult for the sake of being difficult and it has complicated this entire process.

It isn’t only fat f*cks and 87 year olds with diabetes cramming Twinkies down the hatch who are getting snuffed out tho. Known of a few who have gotten taken out/ended up hospitalized and they weren’t the “roll through Walmart in a scooter with 4 boxes of snickers” types. The ones who died were older, but not anything where you’d be like “he was going any second anyways”, tho I am sure those people are much more likely. To say well “death is part of life, oh well” and “appeal to emotions” is kinda weak. Why not jump off a bridge tomorrow than? All of us are checking out in the end no matter what, that is indisputable. Wanting to live for yourself and help others/your emotions are what makes you “alive” in the first place. It is the reason I’d bet you’d fight with everything you have if you thought you were about to eat it (pretty sure you fly fighters if I recall). Nihilism is dangerous way to live, even if it does appear to be scary true. Seen Collateral?…great movie. Cruise’s best performance IMO, makes Top Gun look like amateur hour. I will back your actual argument tho. Everyone makes choices based on what they are comfortable with. Some are comfortable popping a wheelie doing 100 on a bike with no helmet on in Connecticut. Is that person an idiot? Depends. Maybe to him it’s worth the risk. Just like it’s worth it for some to fly a blob of metal with missiles hanging off the wings. I know people who think stepping into a single engine plane is “bat shit crazy”, but smoke a pack a day. We all have different risk tolerances/opinions on “when it’s worth it”, and "when it's not". Hey, alcohol is legal. Don't like 15K die a year from DUI accidents? Why not ban alcohol again? Because society has decided the risk "is worth it". Some people would rather risk it with the shot, some with all natural COVID. To each their own, but I am sick of the conspiracy theory BS. People should not be forced to get the shot IMO, even if all the smartest people in the world tell them “hey, you should get the shot”. But be consistent. The idea that a cruise line is "oppressing" you for wanting you to have a vaccine before you jump onto a crowded boat and head out to the ocean is just baffling. If you get sick are you going to cover the tab for an airlift off the boat? For those who feel so strongly about the “oppressive” shot issue, they should also agree that every hard drug in the United States needs to be legalized tomorrow. You have no right to tell someone what they cannot put into their body, any more than you don't have the right to tell them what they have to put in their body. Why should some 13 year old girl in Mexico be raped and have her head chainsawed off from cartel violence so that a bunch of NYU prep school kids can do lines of blow in the club? Where's the outrage? Legalize it all and end the violence chain.

Lets drop surface to air weapons off in one of the most unstable regions of the world where there's a group of people who would love nothing more than to get their hands on just one them and plink AF1 or a commercial jet at the next available opportunity.

It sat at SWF forever down the street missing the pod. When did it move to NJ? I haven't looked in awhile, next time I drive by I'll take a peep maybe he finally fixed it.

So as an aspiring military aviator....am I better off bailing and trying to make a difference some other way? Make a bunch of money lugging a 767 through the sky, than donate it to fosters kids or something? Is flying that F-15 jut a nasty bamboozle nowadays? This isn't like a gotcha question btw man. It's dead ass. I have talent, watching what's happend in the middle east has for sure turned most people I know away from the military. They just have no faith. I have faith in the people who make up the hammer (the military), but seeing both right and left fail miserably lately, the military can be the best in the world but it doesn't matter if a bunch of drunken fools are the ones swinging it. It's not wrong, it's a product of the universe and an unavoidable paradox. A private entity is a group of people who want to do something a certain way. It is hard to say "people need to be free to do whatever they want"....but a private entity..which is just "people"....can't. Imperfect world unfortunately, Okay, this is almost worth its own thread. I personally am a fan of a much larger state militia/national guard model rather than a large active duty force. I think it produces a much more rounded decision maker, since their paycheck isn't solely determined by "war/preparing for war". It also engages more everyday citizens with the military. IMO most people I know don't know or really care about Afghanistan, what were doing, etc. Just want to mow the lawn, scroll through their feed and light the grill. I do not think lobbying has any place in government. I would argue it is the root cause of our governments continued inability to function efficiently, to the point where a strong central state like China is going to be able to out hustle us very soon, even if it costs their own people in the long term. Let's build it. Concur. Giving up guns is a short term gain (less shootings/homicide) but a VERY large long term loss. The American citizen should ALWAYS have a way to resist the government. If the government over steps enough and enough people revolt, the people will always maintain power. This only works however with a population that remains educated. A bunch of ignorant people with guns can be quite counterproductive. Also....imagine if the Chinese invaded us tomorrow...the amount of resistance the every day citizen could generate even if our military was defeated would be a real thorn... And I appreciate that. Back at ya, its sound stupid/corny, but not enough Americans engage with other people who may not think like them. IMO that is what is driving our struggles. It isn't left/right. There shouldn't be a left/right.

Now here, I am onboard. Having known good people who have succumbed to this by getting hooked on pain killers after accidents. Let me ask you this tho...what is the point of the government? In an over simplified view...is it not to TRY (key word) to make decisions for the good of the whole? We KNOW cigarettes are bad. They serve no secondary purpose like other hot button items (a.k.a guns to keep an over reaching government in check...I'm pro gun btw). Would you endorse the federal government banning these? I want a Yes or no. Ban them, your restricting the rights of citizens to enjoy a smoke= people picketing that the government has over stepped its boundaries. Don't ban them, you're letting the corporations/elitist CEOs you speak of bend over a bunch of people with a harmful product that they tried to sell as not harmful for years, and is highly addictive to people who try it. I get your talking points. But you have to acknowledge, the government is damned if they do damned if they don't. Let's say the shot was a rush job/not properly approved, and people end up with side effects? Americans will be in the streets, picketing that the government (current administration) screwed its own people and sold them out to the corporations. Let's say the government takes its sweet ass time with the shot. A bunch of extra people die, COVID get's worse, mutates again, more shutdowns, overloaded hospitals. Americans picketing in the street again how they got screwed, government is incompetent and can't get anything done. You could take the stance that Americans should be allowed to do what ever actions they want to themselves, so long as it does not impact others. Ok,you're body, you don't want the shot. But than any nurse/DR should have the right to refuse you treatment, their body, they don't want to be exposed to COVID virus any more than you want to be exposed to the shot. Also my insurance premiums shouldn't be higher for driving a car with an LS3, but they sure are. I get a friendly reminder every 6 months. Yours should be higher for no shot, own it and stop off loading the costs onto someone else. If you get COVID, for you it shouldn't be a big deal...just stay home and sleep it off. There nothing "wrong" with your stance. But in this world...you gotta put your money where your mouth is, or w.e your saying doesn't mean shit.

To add...don't see you as an enemy dude. You're free to post your opinions just like anyone else in this country, even if we disagree.

Fair enough, I'll bounce the ball back at ya: 1. Sure. But the Manhattan project was relatively small scale with a justifiable motive. To be able to annihilate the Japanese because they were trying to annihilate us. What is the motive here of the pro vax people? Private corporations want to sell bogus vaccines (at the expense of a bunch of other corporations who have lost money over this shit show) to make money and all of the worlds governments are all "in on it"? I agree any government is capable of royally fing up and feeding horse shit to its own people. (WMD in Iraq??) But you're talking about such a massive scale here...is it possible? Sure. Likely? Not really. We make decisions based on likelihood. Could an asteroid hit the earth tomorrow and send us all to our doom? Yeaup. But are you gunna go spend every penny in your bank account on a wild night of hookers and blow because there's a .00001 percent chance you'll die of an asteroid tomorrow? 2. Agree, the healthy you are better off you're gunna be. Not everybody gets great health tho. Some people are older, some have asthma, etc. If you are totally healthy, maybe you don't really need the shot. Cool, I get it man. Getting the shot isn't just about helping yourself, its about helping someone else who may not be able to defend against the virus. Maybe that doesn't work for you and that is fine, but why on earth would you join a branch of the armed forces? 3. Yea that's fair, I agree. But you cannot whine than when something like a cruiseline (PRIVATE company) says get a shot or no boat trip. Go start your own cruise line with no rules if you don't like it. You're anti-socialism right? If there is a demand...deliver the supply! This whole vax issue gets hairy with public school districts. Best solution IMO is to leave it up to each district to vote on it IMO, majority wins. 4. No it's good too question, you have my backing there. Also you don't want to be ridiculed and said you should't be made fun of for not getting a shot, but you also said you don't care about Pfizer employees feelings. Two way street than. But this isn't about feelings. You're accusing Pfizer, Moderna and JJ employees of intentionally defrauding the American (and the world) public with a bogus shot. That's a mighty big claim. Agreed, the government has shown how bad it can be at tasks (I hear you on the Afghanistan pull out...utter disaster, and there is indisputable outrage from both sides of the aisle). But the government didn't make the shots, capitalism and the private sector did. So you don't trust the federal government, whose job it is to (even if they suck at it) to regulate private industry so stuff doesn't get out of hand...but private industry to you is entirely corrupted, a bunch of money making elitist CEOs with no morals trying to jam an necessary shot in your arm? So what is your solution? Who is it we should all be trusting instead? You don't feel like you need the shot so why should the an employer/cruise lines/the military be able to restrict you? I hear you, that does suck. But I also feel like I can do 90 mph more safely than half the people on the road can do 65 mph. I felt I coulda gotten my PPL at 20 hours, but the FAA made me pay to get 40. I feel fine ingesting lead paint flakes, but lead paint has been banned. I just don't get exactly what your problem or solution is. What policy do you actually want changed? Has anyone dragged you out of your civilian house and jabbed you in the arm yet, like they would've in China? So the military (Federal Goverment) wants you to get it a shot and you're afraid it might harm you? What about when they shove you into Taiwan cuz some dick politician in China decide he wanted to unnecessarily invade and get a bunch of people killed for no reason...a stupid covid shot is gunna be the least of your worries, no?

Dude I'm all for holding corporations accountable, and the idea that they will "always act ethically" is for sure a stretch. But do you think all the thousands of employees at Pfizer are just monsters injecting a death sentence into their fellow community members? Think about how much it would take to pull that off...This shot came out during a global pandemic...under the scrutiny of literally everyone qualified (aka not me...and probably not you). Also...logical flaw. You know what else hasn't been properly tested against humans and isn't FDA approved? The COVID virus itself. If you wanna roll your dice with an "untested" virus created by nature...go for it. But nature also created HIV, cancer, ALS, Polio, etc. You gunna roll your dice with those viruses too? I think you should have the right to not get the shot. But hospitals should also have the right to push you to the back of the line/not accept you ifyou show up wasted from Covid. ALSO. My sister has masters in bio engineering, works across the street from Moderna. It's always ok to question, but every time you blast the "shot" as some conspiracy, your insulting the hard work of those people who worked in that field. Are you an AF pilot, fly any combat missions? What if I just came up to you and said Afghanistan was a hoax. We were never there, you never flew any actual missions. We just pretended to be there to defraud the American tax payer of money and all the governemnt elitists lined their pockets. All the scenes on TV were just filmed in Nevada by Paramount movie crews.... Get the vibe? ...You'd probably wanna punch me in the face...

TBNT are out from Jersey, good look to those who got it. 👍