MooseClub

With stats like that we’ll never be able to understand why people are bailing... Maybe I should be looking into the VA!

Unless you’re an 0-6 or higher, in a command billet, nobody needs to be doing a year deployment, period. I can understand needing that continuity at the 0-6+ level....outside of that you’re damn hard pressed convincing me there’s any good reason someone needs to spend a year over there. You tell me what job exists at the 0-3 ~ 0-5 level that absolutely must have the same human being in it for a whole year. I call BS on that noise.

What is your local leadership recommending to the FEB? From what I’ve seen the leadership at your current FTU can have a big influence on the direction your FEB takes. There’s a significant difference in what students can washout for. It can be “hey this flying thing just isn’t for you” or it can be “hey this is a good dude, this particular msn just isn’t for him”. That’s two very different messages. My 2 cents...getting your leadership to advocate for you is your best shot at another airframe.

Yes, that’s my point. Guys that are used to being able to “bark” at their AD underlings can have a hard time if they don’t adjust their style when dealing with civilians. Point is I’ve seen guys not realize that and the results were self critiquing.

^That checks. I’ve had some experience with GS & contractors and you’re right, for many of us typical pilot types it won’t compute. That’s a different world. Approach them the wrong way and they’ll just slow roll shit till you move on to another position. Easy enough for them to just wait you out.

To further expand, I called an airline rep this morning with one of the majors and asked if a special issuance FCI would be viewed adversely in any way by a hiring board. He confirmed no it would not. His words were as long as you have the FCI and you aren’t operationally restricted in some strange way (said he’d never heard of such a instance) then that’s all they care about medically. He also said it would be illegal for them to hold the fact you have a special issuance/medical condition against you as that is a legally protected status when it comes to hiring. He again reiterated that you simply need to hold the FCI.

Exactly. Continuation in itself is not an ADSC and that’s spelled out specifically on continuation paperwork. It gives you the option to serve to that time. If you selected 24 years and decided at 20 to retire, they could not stop you based solely on that continuation. For the original question, as olevelo points out, I also believe based on the new DOS, established by the continuation acceptance, that had someone taken the 20 years aviation service bonus previously that this would then have you retirement eligible at 20 and not force you to go past it, unless you wanted to. You’d very likely be forced to pay back any unearned portion of your bonus at that point, but otherwise free and clear.

On the mil side it’s a waiver. Civilian side it’s called a special issuance FCI. You’re medically qualified or you’re not. It’s really that simple. Even before it was a seller’s market, the proof was already out there in the literally thousands of airline pilots in this boat. If you can carry a FCI it won’t be your medical that prevents you from getting a job. More food for thought.

Some inaccurate advice on this thread. Sleep apnea diagnosis will result in a MEB. Before that happens, they’ll put you on a CPAP and IF your therapy is effective and they can get your AHI number low enough you will get a waiver and return to fly. If ineffective it could result in separation. Assuming you get the waiver you’ll also be C-coded which you refered to above regarding deployments (can deploy but needs to be to a fixed facility). Other take-always: 1) You’ll need to demonstrate a minimum of 90 days of effective therapy via download from your CPAP to apply for the waiver. 2) Once you have a waiver you’ll end up doing a RILO annually (or longer) to renew your waiver where they’ll also re-verify your therapy is still effective. As long as you’re complying (using the CPAP) and it’s effective you won’t have much to worry about. They want to see you’re stable and successfully treated. 3) Expect the VA will have you come in once a year to do a 90 day download so they can verify your compliance. If you aren’t regularly using your CPAP like you should that could become an issue. 4) There is something like 5000 commercial pilots in the U.S. with sleep apnea who have a FCI medical certificate. Again, as long as you are complying and therapy is effective that’s what they care about. I personally carry a FCI w/ this diagnosis. 5) I’m still AD myself but assuming everything I previously stated I would be highly surprised if the Reserves/ANG would not allow you to fly for them if you are stable with effective therapy. If AD and the airlines are gtg with it then I don’t see any reason why Res/Guard wouldn’t also be as you can still fly and deploy. Effectice CPAP therapy and you complying/using the thing like you’re supposed to is the bottom line.

Shack

“coveted leadership position” if you can’t take your jet to slam some ass....is it really coveted??

^I remember when Ops, not MX, ran the flying schedule.

^ absolutely true. Folks are getting looked at when they show up to that first assignment and compared to others in the same year group from day one. Those shiny pennies are identified by the time you’re a young captain. Great if you’re one of them but if you aren’t, realize it will be highly difficult to ever break into that group. The people identified will quickly start building high quality strats in their paperwork. This amounts to an investment by your community. This also means those HPOs can ride that wave since so much gets invested in their paperwork so early on. They almost have to screw up or self illuminate after a while. Adds to the difficulty of any “average” officer ever moving up into that top tier — you basically have to bump someone out (who’s already vested) and you can imagine that once that effort has been put into someone’s record your community’s leaders aren’t going to be quick to do that. They develop a plan early on, and once in motion they don’t want to change it. We compete as year groups and rest assured every year group in each community will have its top tier selected very early in their careers. It’s the nature of the system. Make sure you know where you stand in your year group. Demand that honest feedback. It’s harder to get than it should be.

You want the DP. Period. Also, something not spoken of often is (assuming you’re an average Joe and not a preordained golden child) you need someone to advocate for you. I knew a couple guys who’s PRFs were VERY similar in nearly every aspect. One of them had someone who fought for him to get a DP in discussions w/ the Wg cc. The other guy didn’t. The guy who got the DP of course was promoted, the other wasn’t. Nearly identical PRFs but opposite results. None of that is in your control btw. The longer I’ve been in the more I’ve learned just how little control you actually have in your career. If you can get a DP good on ya! You won’t have much to worry about. If you don’t get one, go into it with eyes wide open. Look at the last board for folks w/ only a P, those rates are not good. Far from impossible, but very sobering.

GoodSplash9 is spot on about making any real change. A Sqd CC can certainly affect the lives of the folks under them, but an effect on the system...not a chance. I’m not sure what level that truly takes but my assumption based on 14+ years is it’s going to at least require multiple stars. It’s frustrating and disheartening and drives a lot of good folks to find a livelihood elsewhere. Can’t blame anyone who moves on with their life to greener pastures....tip of the hat to those who stay for the long term.

I’m sure it happens. The point is folks are doing themselves a disservice if they’re surprised and caught off guard. My recommendation is stay in tune with life outside the AF and don’t insulate yourself. I know plenty who do. One way or another all of us will no longer be in the mil one day and we should all be ready to make that transition. Like you said, this is a fishbowl. None of us should ever forget just how much so it is.

^exactly. If people don’t leave (i.e. affect the msn) why would the AF ever change the way it does business. Unfortunate it takes that in order for the AF to consider real change.

I would hope none of us are ever surprised at how different the “real world” is from the AF.

The CC will have two choices. Well three....you can always just ignore it. Assuming it isn’t ignored, he can decide it’s agregious enough they can fire the guy on the spot. The other choice is to allow due process via a CDI, and those simply take time, as they should.

i just keep picturing this

The resistance/lack of interest you’ve gotten from the AF to make that transition should answer the question of wether or not you should make that transition. I’m not saying....just saying.

Wow. They historically plan for what, 60-65%?

^bingo exactly what would happen.