AirGuardianC141747

Totally, AF started draining significantly almost 10 years ago and hadn’t stopped until the cyclic airline dumpster 🔥 fire. Always seems to be something and you had better have some intestinal fortitude to weather this game. Not for the faint of heart. While not pressure driven like military pilot paralysis (Combat Zone, PME, CBT, ROE, PT, etc), AD was pretty much a safe income source comparably speaking outside of RIFs and Passover’s. With greater security comes vast amounts of responsibility and we salute you.

Very knowledgeable statement. While in my first Guard unit (in a couple) we were fortunate there were limited folks in this position. Most had their shot, some not - but overall I enjoyed having a Nav and Engineer on board C141 days vs C17s. Extra eyes, extra safety and bigger party of friends roaming the world. Most of our Engineers became Loadmasters. Imagine this: 2 of my super smart engineers became Loadmasters, meanwhile they were already 747 engineers at their civilian gig. Their company (mine as well) allowed them get their civilian tickets on their own in a special program and eventually move up front to the right seat. Now they are Whale Captains a tad senior to me. (One is a Line Check Airman) SNCOs with vision and grit, can’t beat it. I actually rib them into buying drinks = priceless!!!

Did I mention Never Give Up!

I appreciate the “Never Give Up” attitude more then most and just understand timing is everything despite the best laid plans. My late 80s/early 90s story among many other great stories out there. 1. Planned to join Air Force ROTC work hard/stay focused and earn a Pilot Slot. 2. Several of us in the running for a pilot slot in a non-normal environment. Graduating Class before us multiple pilot slots awarded, our class a total of 0. It was Post Gulf War 1 drawdown and ROTC dropped from 1200 slots to 100 slots annually. Try applying several years after Top Gun came out and a Reduction In Force Impact - nothing was tougher. Haven’t seen anything like it since. Banked Pilots, no fly just working other jobs awaiting a seat in aircraft that didn’t exist. 3. Next focused attempt. Give it my all to earn the Commandant/Vice Commandant Award at Basic(Camp) since all previous award winners were given the choice of either a Full Scholarship or Pilot Slot (Rated Position). Finished Basic and received the Vice Commandants Award. Finalized paperwork for Pilot Slot opportunity vs Scholarship and missed the writing on the wall. Due to continuing cut backs we regret to inform you we have canceled all Pilot Slot awardees via the Top 4% Award Winners program and I was unable to go back and receive the Full Ride Scholarship to further kick sand in our face. 2nd Upset, Timing is everything. 4. Elected to enter/serve the USAF as a Maintenance (MX) Officer and continue to compete for slots while young enough. Applied every other year for a total of 2 more times while banked pilots continued to roam the base in alternative positions. 27.5 years old was the cut off and that ended the Active Duty pursuit. That’s 4 legitimate full force attempts where I crashed and burned. 5. Sent to the Air National Guard Headquarters as an Active Duty Staff MX Officer. Worked hard as always, especially taking care of my assigned ANG units. Saw the light with the Guard and while many were offering the opportunity for me to transfer to their units as an MX Officer, several of my preferred locations did not have those positions and asked if I was interested in becoming a pilot? Imagine that, someone working on your behalf which was new. Told them I was too old and they never batted an eye as they had the political gusto to cut red tape and make it happen. Offered amazing opportunities by three units and one other Great unit officially hiring me as B-1 WSO (Now JSTARS) just in case my age waiver was torpedoed by the USAF Chief of Staff. Turns out the Director of the Guard had Gen Ryan at the time personally endorse the waiver, especially after the UPT age limit just rose to 30. I entered Pilot Training after nearly seven years of Active Duty at the ripe age of 31 as a senior Capt. Just happy to be there. While pushing for Pilot I broke myself physically and paying for it now while doing CCT/STS Team tryouts annually. Much easier life now and I probably would have been dead on a mountain in Afghanistan or at least divorced so someone up there is looking out for me. Overall, it’s not necessarily what you but who you know, the work effort and trust you will build with those above below and around you and once again timing is everything. Let your work speak for you! You never make the shot you never take! Fully retired now, C-141s, C-17s, too much Staff Work , but I am making up for it here in Korea resting up for my flight to Australia flying a 747. Some senior officer (New OG at Columbus AFB) once told me during pilot training - “You shouldn’t be here!” He was one of the AD Staff O-6s holding back my application packages at the Pentagon, but our General swiped it from him. Look at me now: Multiple incomes, flying The Whale and loving every minute of it. Even if doesn’t last, it has been an amazing opportunity. Hard work eventually pays off, but it was those below and above that raised me up and pushed me up to the front of the line. You only have “ONElife”....

🍺...Be at peace Warrior

Sounds like ya’ll need to work out more and not just lose weight. Get that “V” shape (not excessive) working again. The difference between a few of you and me was I made it look good. Hahaha! Now I have the upside down “V” shape or more appropriately pear shape going for me, which is nice - not really. But for myself, my post military surplus green pajamas are very useful when working on the cars in comfortable weather (yeah you got me temp wise) or crawling under the house filling my pockets with camel crickets, spiders and what not. *When I had to buy my own boots for the first time after more than two decades of servitude, it was just another tightening of the screws that made it easier to depart the fix.

Totally agree it will rebound. It will take time and every state, country or territory is doing their own crisis management in their own way. Once everything settles down and stabilizes universally. Maybe we can smack this thing down quicker as there have been spikes already in multiple states as of late and these waves die down eventually. 2020 hindsight will hopefully provide much needed insight to mitigation procedures/lessons learned that work well. We can’t afford another impact like this. Passed thru Hawaii yesterday which was back to “stay inside” not quite lockdown again due to another minor spike after they recently held a parade. They were at zero for a bit and everything was opening back up until an average of 9 new cases everyday reared its head. Most hotels were shutdown when we arrived and ours was primarily aircrew populated. This pic of the Marriott across the street was eerie like all the hotels surrounding us. Not even balcony chairs were left out. Lifeless for now just waiting for bathing suits to be drying out on the balconies once again.

Nice! This thread went full tilt. To finalize and further perpetuate the lifestyle. When things get better/great again (anyone’s guess), there is no PME, no OPRs, no multiple sideline requirements, responsibilities unrelated extra duty unless you actually volunteer for them like FAA certified Designated Examiner, Line Check Airman, Sim Check Airman, Sim Instructor/Operator, Ground School Instructor which lets be honest - these sound like opportunities that actually pertain to your chosen profession with increased monetary benefit for most. Even when given the opportunity for Captain, it’s your choice to proceed for more clams - it’s just waiting your turn based on seniority. Even Quarterly CBTs requirements gets you paid for most groups. Wow, paid extra to do your CBTs what a crazy idea. When your off duty, your off duty and I never think about my work just home work, errands, home life, extracurricular activities, family time, whatever it is your into. If/when they call you it’s not for deployment - it’s to get them out of a jam and they compensate you with a big chunk of clams more for your time, but that’s only if you choose to accept it or answer your phone which I don’t. More senior the better of course, but you all understand it based on previous information given. It’s a pretty good deal and nothing’s perfect. Prior to COVID19 most airlines increase your pay by 60K, 70K, 80K and several over a 100K when you jump from FO to Capt. While you see the outright pay scales - many times it’s the soft pay behind the scenes that can benefit you even more dependent upon the carrier. Lifestyle vs pay is a constant choice/crossroad/conundrum you will meet and many stay FO for better schedules, time off, control of their life and there are varied opportunities as a senior FO picking up open time (overtime) at many carriers to close the Captain pay gap. Here’s a personal example: Many Captains rib me about electing to stay FO for several years now and giving up 65K or more. Unless he’s one of the Senior Original Gangstas I simply reply - Whenever have you been #1 at your base Good Sir??? They all understand at that point. Top 10% at any base is usually pretty good and others have it even better depending on the base schedules. It’s all how you want to live your life. If I needed more clams I could spring for it but enjoy my time off personally and haven’t missed a Christmas, Thanksgiving, New Years or any other holiday, birthday or anniversary I have chosen for many years. While in the military I can’t remember how many times all the holidays or special days took place on another date due to being on another continent. Yes I am quite senior at my outfit, but an FO I flew in today with who has been with us for 4 years now said the same. It varies everywhere/situation dependent. To be honest I speak from a different perspective having a mil retirement, etc. which helps me exceed our particular Capt pay, but once again it’s pressure free and I am very fortunate no doubt. If you can attain a full retirement or other consistent means of financial backup I urge you to do it. Definitely not a life for everyone and it’s still challenging at times being away, but my wife sees that I am nearly stress free and enjoy showing up to work and never talk about work when at home. Heck, I get more sleep at work lately (home upgrades, immense amount of landscaping/chopping trees down = not smart I know) and she’s stuck with it all like most of you know all too well. If/when I pull the plug, or my outfit were to collapse, be bought out, etc., at least the retirement provides a softer landing... Here near Sydney Australia today by the beach for 55hrs. By product of COVID19 = Ocean view suites available for us til 31 Aug. It’s pretty much cake normally, but it’s the icing at times that makes things easier. Traveling around now vs after projected retirement when my body isn’t quite up to par is priceless. It’s not as challenging/rewarding as flying during my military career, but I was so bored last night and wanted to brush up on what little skills I had that I hand flew the departure out of Hawaii all the way up to cruise altitude (100 Kilos shy of Max weight) squirrelly sucker at our weight passing FL250, then droned on for the next 9.5 hours to basically Winter in Sydney. 19C or about 66F. I like Winter here and then off to mid 90s in Thailand next. Wonder if they’ll take my temp there too?

What would you say you really do here? I’ve got people skills dammit!!! Great Bobs reference Flea and exceptional SA.

Good info right there. ANG sometimes gets lucky but it’s not always luck and this isn’t luck. It as exactly as projected over 20 years ago, but pretty awesome to get new birds whatever they may be. Even though back of the line in this case it is definitely better than our failed paralleled attempt at the C-130 AMP project. We’ll see who has the politics, mission statement priority and older equipment just to name a few of the criteria. Stay flying is better than not for most units. Although even a non-flying mission is better than no mission.

Very true, but it was Big Blues plan well prior to pitch for a new shiny model (substantially better than status quo = next generation) and not just a new somewhat upgraded variant of the C-130. You never ever have the latest and greatest of the legacy model of anything when going before Congress. Look here Congress, our Reserve Component will be doing fine for decades; however, our aging fleet should be of great concern, but we have insight to the possibility of the next generation “Super Herc” and we believe we can stretch our current fleet and replace them all with one single next gen Super Herc. Very strategic move on their part - very well thought out and I gotta give it to them. Chess game played extremely well. Remember, first C-130J flight was in 1996 and it was being redesigned well before that obviously - right around your early 90s timeframe. Overall, in 1997 at the Guard Bureau we vigorously attempted to combine all our variants to one combined effort with the Reserves calling the entire fleet modification C-130 AMP (Aircraft Modernization Program). We constantly traveled back and forth to Warner Robbins for multi-source contract comparison and bids to bring the USAF as a whole to 3 variants vs 13. Desperately pushing for C-130J Active Duty, C-130 AMP (Guard/Reserve) and the whatever the Special Ops required. It was an attempt to modernize decades sooner then wait at the back of the line and here we are today. What a bust at the time and I will admit pretty much a checkmate move by True Blue - very well done. That was a teaching moment and we learned some valuable lessons. All I can say is ANG is C-5 free, can’t win every battle but we have a few grand slams and we shuffle iron very well at times and not so much as well. C-27 what a fiasco, but during my 2nd staff tour when I first arrived and given the order to divest them (not my program), we were able to make some deals to transfer to another service and the Spec Ops community as not to waste a nearly brand new and some coming off the line from Italy. They were actually headed to the bone yard but we were very creative. Such a waste in Mil-con $$$... terrible.

Concur, it is a key player in the decision tree matrix when unit conversions are discussed at the National Guard Bureau level. If using capabilities on an very specific Orange vs Orange contrasting argument there is much validity to your statement. Back in 1997-2000 during my first staff weenie tour as a Maintenance Officer there were 13 variants of the C-130 within the inventory it was a nightmare of sustainability. Having been the Tactical Airlift Branch Chief at the Air National Guard Readiness Center - ANGRC (2013-15) there were/are a myriad of reasons to keep the legacy models moving forward. First and foremost the full scale wartime effort requirements to meet a 1.5 or 2 front posture (always fluid/changing environment based upon current and future threats) calling upon the Reserve Component = RC (the term used for Guard/Reserve combination) is mandatory with nearly 500 tails on the books depending on your count that day. It has decreased due to several unit conversions to UAV, C-17 and other platforms/mission set requirements. Other headliner reasons include the aforementioned political aspect no doubt and the always looming issue of strategic budget impact. You cannot meet the Quadrennial Defense Review dictated by the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) by simply converting all or most units with limited funding or simply closing them down (And then the politics become truly ferocious). Everything gets divided by each service at the 50,000 foot level as it finally makes its way down to each and every MWS and the capability it provides at the 500 foot level. As one simple example, the Army has airlift requirements to meet its wartime objectives when they push full scale or tilt and that calls for much more than the Active Duty can provide, hence the Reserve Components existence is mandatory. All services have an “Authorized Strength” Limit and are bumped up accordingly as the SECDEF approves dependent upon the contingency requirements. We also have active duty folks (Subject Matter Experts - SME’s) working with us on staff within the NGB/ANGRC HQs to assist unit integration/conversion/mission statements, etc. and my fellow Strategic Airlift Branch Chief was active duty and retired (lucky old bastard left me with it all - great friend even as a Nav,) so I had to take over both branches. Not only 20 C-130 units, 20 Tanker Units, 5 C-17 Units, and OSA. O-6 got pushed to Deputy A3 and they threw me in his spot overseeing all Airlift and AE Ops with a Total Operating Authority (TOA) of over $11B not million. That drove me up to the 30,000 foot mark for almost a year before an actual O-6 showed up when I left for Homeland defense. Job was mine, but I chose not to struggle thru PME during my staff horror. Not that I really had the time being on call 24/7. Staying O-5 helped me land the Homeland Defense spot on the beach I had been eyeballing 2 years prior. Apologies as I digressed. *Zero reason to keep the C-141 around due to the superior performance of the C-17 and that was broadcasted by Big Blue back in the day. Once again, a very true observation 1 on 1. What the active duty failed to realize was despite its increased capabilities/cargo load, etc. they could not be in as many places at once with far less aircraft, hence the ever increasing aircraft procurements over a prolonged period. Other politics were involved, but bottom line is the footprint of nearly 300 C-141s cannot be filled by substantially less aircraft no matter how capable. Initial order was 120, then up to 160, 180 and finally 223 C-17s. Still more then 60 shy of C-141s but far better than what they thought they could do with far less. Very costly, but necessary to maintain a substantial foot print and how many times have you seen USAF aircraft procurement increase that rapidly from initial request other than UAVs, but that is new technology to be honest. Big blue even approved “Core 63”, an upgraded 75% all glass version designated as the C-141C model as they needed to extend the viability of an older aircraft (63 of them in the Guard/Reserve) while waiting for fresh off the assembly line C-17s to fill the huge gaping hole of airlift. This was my baby as the Program Manager during my first staff tour as a MX Officer and I eventually flew it as well after pilot training. Pacer Crag (KC-135 Cockpit/Avionics Upgrade) was the other debacle but don’t blame yours truly as I was 2nd in charge laughing at my boss pulling his hair out more than me. Trust me, I wish we could swap out aircraft at a rapid rate giving our warfighters far better capabilities they deserve without a limited annual budget, procurement rate and bureaucracy involved.

Fair Game - Good ribbing: Actually you kind of said it correctly for many Guard/Reserve units. You were quoted “that’s why we CAN have nice things”. Reserve components historically have received the hand me down airframes. I.E. - All active duty C-130J models vs only 2 or so in the Guard at most are the legacy H models. Active normally gets the nice things first so you were correct - just poking. However, when we get the previously worn clothes - we clean them up and make them nicer than they have been for decades. Longevity Pride is what I call it and we rarely get new toys... Timing is everything and we got it. Good jab, good jab.

Good advice on how to get the credentials to be looked at. Between now and then find a Guard/Reserve unit and start building ties as you transition into the commercial world. Why = you will have a backup income if/when the industry goes South yet again as it has been cyclic. Even folks who had 3-5 years of seniority with a major have been worried if the numbers below them will keep them safe from furlough. Whether or not that becomes fact, the warm fuzzy of alternate income does help. *If you can stomach the military side when in the Guard/Reserve (different animal, but still military) you may want to consider building active duty points on orders for them/you. Surpassing the 15 yr point of accrued AD points and having already landed your preferred airline (Line Number), most of the airline folks who have ran back to full time gigs (AGR, etc.) during this virus will be vacating such opportunities and you have a good shot at finishing out with an immediate full retirement. 13.5 years is a tough decision to throw away while in good standing. That monthly income in the hand and benefits is hard to beat, but full freedom maybe your best choice and is totally up to you.

Red Hat in a Democratic sanctuary = probably not smart. This whole thing kind of stirs up the Rodney King time if anyone was around or in CA which I was during college. But BLM has a much stronger force behind this. Former African American Chief of police killed; African American police Captain shot performing his duty assisting a call during a looting shot dead along with several other incidents - BLM doesn’t discuss such matters as it’s not part of their narrative. Collateral damage perhaps? Either way, just think - Gun control, take away the right to protect yourself. If it had succeeded before this and it may very well in the future then where might some folks be now when the cry out to defund the police is pressed. Let that sink in as the masses would become sheep to the slaughter. A police report is just that - an account of the aftermath. Presence helps but they cannot be on your lawn for you. Only community (if you will) lightly abused during the Rodney King timeframe were the Koreans. This is why they were “lightly abused” = Welcome to Korea Town storefronts avidly protecting their property with firepower putting down the menace to society no matter what race. Have guns, will travel and word got out quickly - don’t go there. Could get ugly as most Americans have armed themselves based on criminal behavior and fear of a tyrannical government these past decades. Now, we can only hope WROL does not prevail and the blowback would be catastrophic. Side note: As far as immigration is concerned. Father was 1st generation Japanese to step foot in America the proper way and became a naturalized citizen giving up his Japanese citizenship as he saw the opportunity and was amazed by the Great USA. In his early teens he worked in a bullet factory during WWII. Took bombing shrapnel from Billy Mitchell’s friends as he would say. During his training as a physician in Japan, he gave up everything as the first born to his younger brother and left for the U.S. to finish his residency. After decades practicing in the U.S. he returned to his home country to share his knowledge like many current great country citizens have. Not all do and that is why many countries remain below standard as an observation and cultural differences play a huge part. In fact, he started work with the US Military in Japan at the largest private hospital which was one of the first to have an MRI when it was first introduced. It was so successful that he was sought after by the State Department or whoever and vetted by the Secret Service and became President George Herbert Walker Bush’s Neurosurgeon when he traveled in the Far East. (I was adopted; therefore, too stupid to be a doctor so I became a USAF maintenance officer, staff weenie and then a pilot.) Became a staff weenie as a pilot too and now retired flying rubber dog crap out of Hong Kong and better for it because of my fathers tenacity and ferocity. Bottom Line: My father took a lot of crap as part of the Greatest Generation on the wrong side. Racism galore and well founded based on the era, but see how others have risen - get a clue. He sought perfection at all times and earned every success. Thru intestinal fortitude and down right grit he became a major contributor to American society and more successful than most. Americans of all color or whatever are great and he did it right, there is no excuse. Effort and discipline X 1000, unfortunately becoming a rarity in some cases. I always had a good home, good food and a great father that guided me and made me work for everything I had and truly blessed. Even that base model puke yellow 1981 Monte Carlo in 1987. Should have bought a Toyota Corolla. Truly miss gentleman like my father. Our future generations need to be greater once again.

Good find nsplayr - Of course AA was sold out, packing them in like Sardines. Gotta get some profit wherever you can. SWA might be still separating pax, but what they are introducing is cargo flights as there’s money to be made there while they wait for numbers to really matter. Dougs probably not getting pay right now and maybe his frequent flyer miles are on SWA. 🤠 Cowboy Up!

It is a skill most definitely and probably very useful when running numbers on what it takes to run an airline perhaps. Could be good could be bad won’t know til 1 Oct or maybe sooner. Fighting unions is definitely business driven and we’ll see how counting pilots turns out. Hope for the best prepare for the worst.

This whole thing has put the brakes on a lot of lives and immediate futures. All of the places I worked militarily full up if not jam packed awaiting opportunities, cargo outfit applications stacked by the 10s of thousands, granted its a shotgun effort but you get my drift. Contracts held in limbo, concessions being pushed and other contracts forward movement have slowed to see what the future holds. CJO’s pulled or pools dissolved, training stopped, retraining stopped for now, so many variables. Hold the line on contracts, give up something or strive ahead regardless of the outcome. All is happening at once, more lessons to be learned this year and the next. Geeesh, definitely the industry of highs and lows.

Remember if you recall correctly I said “Don’t know if it’s right” and frankly don’t care. Masks definitely, since humans suck at hygiene en masse. Just giving you reasoning behind Delta’s move to convince the masses or cattle if you will. Maybe better on AA for herd immunity, whatever. My reasoning for Delta to be more specific is I don’t get a center seat AND plenty of room in economy which was not fairly obvious my apologies as a frequent flyer. Oh yeah and I forgot to mention I never check in bags for obvious reasons especially in my line of work; therefore, loading from the back, 60% fill rate = far less struggle regarding overhead storage. I am riding this gravy train and Delta gets our Company $ and I’ll take the miles as much as possible. Mentioning your “symbolism,” nothing new if you haven’t noticed, this whole society these past 20 years plus is “to make people feel “safer” - very well put! But once again, that’s seems to be a parallel strategy historically. Now, if they had add Avocado sandwiches, and even safer spaces (Emirates top rated individual cabin class) sign me up for $49 not a penny more. 9/11 - more TSA screening, flashy hands up screening machines, flight deck door vaults - all tangible events and makes sense and while pax bitch and moan, they began flying again. Virus issues - tougher to convince it seems when you can’t see the enemy. Time will tell, but social distancing has it’s advantages for me right now. *Chicago and Atlanta not so much ghost towns any more. ATL seemed to be almost a third as busy as it was before Feb/Mar. Looking much better.

Asia only wears masks when needed. Less than 10% prior to Kung Flu. It always has been and always will be out of respect for others and common sense when they were sickish vs now they all wear them. When in the U.S. have you ever seen anyone with a mask for the same purpose, gang banging or carjacking you does not count. I don’t know which is right, but American Airlines was packing them in like sardines most with masks except for the mountain folk family (honestly, they probably didn’t know what was going on looking back at it). I chose Delta from Chicago today leaving 6 AM vs UA and definitely not American. Why = Delta, ALL pax with masks and center seats unfilled maintaining 60% fill rate only. Loaded back to front and deplaned row by row with constant intercom chatter “maintain social distancing.” Which is right, don’t know - but I see the strategy. AA $ up front vs Widget is building consumer confidence initially. Also, Bars in a few states (Alaska as an example) booming - we’ll see on the blooming/spike. Either way, time to get busy working. I was in Japan, Guam, Korea x2, and passed thru Shanghai and back to the U.S. these past 2 weeks. Authorities were discussing a quarantine in Korea for me since I flew into Korea commercially and was to operate next day out. It’s hit or miss on who you get at immigration. After back and forth for 2 hours in the back room I got our handler to book a room at the “Airport Transit Hotel” foregoing my nice digs downtown. Safer bet and hung out with the grumpy FedEx guys locked inside the Airport hotel. Room had no window, tight quarters, etc. good for short layer overs. FedEx “madness” makes total sense if they get stuck beyond 24-30 hrs. One guy was there for 4 days, at least he gets paid more for being in a decent cell and not like the other FedExer in a Singapore cell. *Note: Heard from an Air Wisconsin (AW)crew member today at the Airport that lead United fella said RJ 50 seaters will be retired. AW has the 50 seaters for UA so they were not happy and fully justified, felt bad for them and the other line/personnel cuts out there. Just info from them, others can give further verification.

Definitely the perfect scenario, especially IF that place IS where you have always wanted to live. Less than 10% live in base and near their Guard Unit (commutable daily, not over an hour away) or vice versa, probably less than 5% really. If that is achievable AND you live in your actual dream spot (Don’t kid yourself it’s the place you plan on departing Earth Fix) that’s more like 1%. That my friends is a unicorn and I envy you - You are actually living the dream with some seniority prior to Kung Flu. Using current events, give it some time and Social ID is exactly right. Super senior folks will be back doing schedules they thought they had grown far away from and junior folks - well, we will see what actually happens day by day. Maybe 5 folks I have ever met were Living the High 3 Dream (Base/Guard/Garden Spot Plot). Couple guys from Hawaii which makes total sense if you crave island life. International Airport/Guard Unit/Dream Home since they lived there all their lives with family and life long friends - nothing like being a native with all the benefits! On a different note: 20+ year FedEx great friend of mine has a significant amount of land out West and planned on living there with limited commutes to Memphis. He has an Active Duty retirement, making Capt Cash - But... still lives near Memphis doing Hub turns to stay more nights at home and can’t scrape any International if he wanted, while the dream remains out West awaiting him and his wife’s arrival near 65. Doing better than most, but still not quite full circle and in a holding pattern EFC 65 barring any medical issues. That was a teaching moment for myself. Enjoying the ride(Work) to retirement, not as much cash as the others but no jumpseat/crash pad/commuting pressure or responsibilities, traveling Internationally on Company time/dime vs painfully at 65+ (Probably wouldn’t have the cash to do it 1st Class anyway:) - Flyer Points will be the kicker so I need Big 3 to hang on tight or my investment choices tank... This career/aviation industry has always had pain associated with it and folks are walking the streets yet again, applying in panic to other areas and running back to the Guard/Reserves. Pray that true furloughs do not happen and regarding us current/former mil folks, we are the minority by a huge margin with something to fall back on or pension. Timing is everything. Those with part-time ties, able to Bum/Trough and bid short call from your dream home within an hour THAT is the ticket as joe1234 said. I will say you are more Lucky than Good and that is what I prefer. Enjoy going to work - Check, Driving to work - Check, Pension - Check, Dream Spot - not really and we will immediately move to it when found despite furthering my distance from base, commuting/crash is not my worry. Domiciles within my company and even the Big 3 are not that alluring speaking for my family only. Lifestyle, Lifestyle, Lifestyle!! Many live at their dream locations which are not domiciles or near their Guard unit. Your paradise is definitely not another's. Those who do it’s just a matter of making life easier normally. Pulling chocks - selling/buying a house, yanking kids out of school (maybe easiest point right now with no school) and packing it all up coupled with extra financial/moving expenses incurred during these times or any other time is rather painful.

So true, it’s definitely a “wait-and-see” circumstance. They will keep chiseling and chiseling at the sculpture until it’s true form is revealed. And then chisel some more or not hopefully. No one truly knows anything except that the Airlines form will be of a different nature/size/construct than before. The shell game and musical chairs have only just begun. Economy, Businesses, families financial state, etc will dictate the future. Quite a few more folks in the airports as of late, but it was far from packed. Speaking of packed - just flew thru Dallas to SFO last week and it was packed. Looking at the digital scoreboard showed only 3 flights vs the 10 or more normally. 5 seats open on a bus. Better numbers than in late March, but the flow constriction provides higher density of course. Packed aircraft, far less and smaller herds in the terminal, but they are showing up. Would have appreciated an open seat in between (won’t mention the airline), but that didn’t stop us and only a handful of unmasked types. Whether it helps or not, you could tell those folks came out of the mountains. 2 family groups just there for a good O’l time. Quite amusing since they were not in my row.

Well that came full circle for her. Contract wise (Emirates included), they all are strict on their training payback periods. Normally it’s the 2-3 years for their type rating. Most Expats or whomever just play til the Big 3, etc. called looking to return stateside and pay whatever is prorated/leftover.

Now that is hurtful. From no college debt per say and a entry into a great career to this... College like debt and no career start for awhile perhaps. Dang!

Bottom line up front, industry wide mil reservists pilots have duty they must perform/requirements. Many times it conveniently chops things/balances things out. Having mil leave within a pattern doesn’t necessarily mean you lose the pattern. Most of the time they just create new lines that plug holes within the active schedule. i.e. You have a pattern you bid/won for 10-26 May 20, but have a mil leave request that is 13-17 May (5 days of mil duty whatever it may be). Most likely get 10-12 = R1 (Home Reserve) unless a quick trip in/out is available. Not likely on a 747, but a 767 if you lived in base is possible. Away from base with travel and rest required in a 3 day period not probable. They will build trips after your 5 days or whatever if enough time remains; therefore, this conflict bid does have some goodness if you catch my drift. Just don’t be predictable if you will. Regarding pure 17 days, contract indicates you owe the company up to 17 days. I have a 15 day trip tomorrow and the 1st day happens to be a DH on AA so that counts as Day 1 working day. Sometimes 14,15,16,17 and if your on a 60 Day Line it can be split up with smaller duration trips. 10 off, 12 Fly, 6 off, 15 Fly, 12 off, 5 fly as an example. Or bank $$$ and do mil during off days and fly 17... not always 17 so there’s that gentleman.