AirGuardianC141747

Different perspectives all around, but I actually do agree aside from sort flying. My friends based in MEM on the Atlas side sometimes get stuck on 6, 8, 10, legs on FedEx timelines driving a whale with a 2 Fool Crew. Totally bites. Groundhog Day for a full pattern is absolutely obnoxious. My pattern blew up (normal) a couple of months ago from several international jumps to just four overnights initially doing ORD-ANC, then ANC-ORD, wash rinse repeat (still not as mind numbing as our FedEx time table turns) before I begged scheduling to get me out of the country to a decent layover which they kindly obliged and off to NRT thankfully for my 32/7…

This is an extremely odd example: For years we had a serial complainer who consistently wrote up Capts and a few FO’s or crew as a whole for the slightest friction or unsubstantiated events the individual regarded as slander or whatever towards them. Even walked up to the flat deck and upon hearing the subject matter being discussed just left telling no one except for the company why… Basically this individual was attempting to create a series of issues to draw from and possibly squeeze the company for retribution $. The individuals name spread like wildfire fortunately. Although it took some time, a pink slip ended that debacle. Unfortunately due to the current times I have witnessed several Capt briefs prior to departure stating that “Politics, Religion and background discussions in regards to a persons origin is off limits.” At this point I don’t necessarily disagree with this as a CYA measure, but how far we have come or not… Adult discussions are over due to squeaky wheel consequences, some valid many are not. *Having stated “origin” earlier: Female Capt asked an FO where he was from due to her interest in the family name (I myself am very interested in unique names and history). FO’s response said that was inappropriate to ask and HR rules dictated this. I was floored as we have one of the most if not the most diverse background pilot groups on most any account. Normally a very informative and interesting learning point has turned into a very delicate bubble wrap situation. **I normally assess the crew quickly during meet and greet which exposes a lot of character (Proper respect to the Capt and each other is easy to gauge). Then during the delegation of workload it becomes more evident and normally the final measure is keeping an awareness to catering etiquette and how that pans out. Definitely other tells, but the above are fairly easy to ascertain.

And it will only get crazier… Economy, Recession, War, Inflation, combination of all and or something else. It is a crazy industry.

There’s no excuse in this day and age not to have the good, bad and the ugly on any one outfit. There is really nothing out there that will exonerate anyone from claiming they had no idea what the airlines are all about: $$$ (Yours/Theirs), Unions, Seniority, Equipment, Schedules, Jumpseating/Positive Space/Gateways/Homebasing, Cargo vs Pax, FA’s, Domestic vs International, Retirement plans, Soft Pay, Vacation, Sick Leave, Guarantee, Line Holder, Reserve, Long Call, Short Call, Domiciles, Paid relocation, Line Check Airman, Sim Check Airman/DE, Training Center opportunities, hotels, transportation, green slip, scab, etc, etc, etc. If for some reason it doesn’t suit you just quit. There is plenty of time to job search in hotels at a minimum. Yes, it is a quagmire but just ask a question and someone will pipe in with the answer at their outfit. “Independent Contractors” live at all outfits some more than others and it seems cyclic like every disaster scenario this industry goes thru every decade or thereabouts. Nothing is perfect and the airlines provide a very good lifestyle if it aligns with your priorities whatever they may be. It’s not for everyone and should not be sold as such, but it does provide opportunities that are rarely found in others sectors. It’s what you make of it.

Agree, prices are going ballistic in some areas. So many cancellations since they are unable to support with current staffing, etc. I have been fortunate enough to snag United, Delta and American four times returning from ANC to TN since Jan 22. I realize three out of the four flights were last minute business provided by the company and aren’t cheap, but they have more than doubled… Business is sought after on these 6hr (ish) flights, but May was about $1,500 (Delta/76/lie flat. Granted it’s tourism to ANC/Back, but earlier this week was $3,800 (American/Airbus). Company got it down to $3,200. ANC is a bit out there, but it seems to be high all around.

You can always “be full” if you decrease lines, routes and size of aircraft. Fairly obvious when you fly into several airports and see extra iron just lying around. Overseas is no different with a sea of metal still available although they don’t try to hide it like us. Actual aircraft at the gate with an engine missing or both all taped up with tire covers. They haven’t recovered nor have we fully recovered. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. Just don’t be surprised.

Hmmm, 19% DC in there somewhere? Keep moving on up! Helps all around.

Beyond the LOA’s that have started hardening, there now are tremors surrounding another package possibly in the works to help stop the outflow of folks. We’ll see….. hopefully more than a gift card.

Agree, we do our best to mitigate the above. We make inputs to the best of our ability, but in the end it’s well documented within our industry: “Timing is Everything!” Amazing to think that even your Birth Date or SSN has impact that you have no control over down the road. Many other variables obviously, but no one is shooting to be furloughed, have their carrier merge and get whip sawed or worse yet disappear overnight. Nothing like 20/20 hindsight, and even then some things aren’t avoidable. Too many lost ships at sea out there. While some had a big hand in their circumstances many others did not. I can only evaluate my career at the end looking back. Try to enjoy the ride getting there.

True, so very true. Granted the Big Boyz have plenty of X wives and dependents roaming amuck as well, I just don’t think it’s quite as rampant as 5Y has far greater access than most and the time to delve into such Team X builders club at troublemaker locations. The 100% match up to 10% of your annual salary was a good jump. While many weren’t that happy on the additional 2% DC, I let them know you have no idea how big that really is. I was surprised we were even given anything, so I believe it’s the foot in the door kind of thing. Something they can add too as needed and we need it! “So you’re telling me there’s a chance!” -Lloyd Christmas. Always bleeding, just bleeding some more now that the 175% pay is slowly drying up. 90% were snagging it around the world on the 777/747 side. Now it’s just Big Red so all eyes when bidding are now facing Asia. Get it while you can, everything is cyclic.

Well, at least I most likely would be eligible to fly to Japan since they have already brought the age limit up thru 67 til their 68th birthday awhile back. I like the “extend my LTD a couple of more years!”

Even when I flew back commercial on UA 787 Business in Feb from FRA to ORD, I was included in a shenanigan. Passenger came out of the lav and passed out. Don’t know why I was paying attention (no service due to turbulence over the Atlantic) but I was able to catch him before his head was going to hit the floor after snapping my belt off. Yelled medical and lights came on with FA’s swarming in the aisle. Stood him up for a minute and he said he was OK. One step later he drops like a brick and I threw him in my seat this time. I sat in his seat for 2 hours after a Doc on board took care of him. His seat mate next to me was wondering when something might happen as he pounded a ton of champagne earlier. FA’s said they knew him which was curious. When asked they mentioned he was one of theirs! Turns out he was a UA 787 Capt on his way home… can’t make this stuff up. Guess the pax guys know how to party but no liver to hang.🤪 I don’t drink anymore, but when I do it’s for free - especially on Emirates/Qatar as they have the best choices.

Pretty well sums it up how Lord Ratner categorized it for the majority: 1. Who offered you a job 2. Where can you live without commuting 3. What flying job fits your personality? When you need a job you just go where you must and transition later to that destination career as you see fit, but there has never been a greater time to gain access to your airline of choice than now. Commuting is the biggest hassle for most and nothing beats living in domicile no matter what outfit, except for holding a base which is actually where you want to live or the surrounding area allows you to capture extra trips/pay within 90 min - 2hrs in many cases = Holy Grail of LIFESTYLE and Opportunity. Enjoying the “job” carries significant weight depending on your personality, but every normal hassle melts away when you do and it’s always easier as I sit here in Australia enjoying the beach and whatnot. Rainy seasonish but amazing. *Labeling those who say boxes don’t b….! as “misanthropic” is first off all encompassing of the freight community. For a bunch of freight dawg unsocial misfits I would say we’re doing pretty well out there! 😆🤪

The hidden meaning behind some of these attributes or benefits has taken some time for me to dig up and get steered straight. I believe it was the FedEx folks on APC enlightened me that new hires get to training on their own and pay for their accommodations, ground transportation , etc. The stuff I just mentioned was not the eye-opener. What struck me was that if you (not a newbie) were a commuter, you are responsible for getting there, ground transportation and accommodations during required training events every year for the remainder of your career unless corrected in a new contract. It’s the “expectation” that you live in base was the hidden meaning. You definitely get paid enough to do it, but “c’mon Man! *If your dream location is at base, you have won the lottery! *Good to know about United. Thx.

Thanks to both of you answering this. Didn’t think an immediate move was paramount, but with kids (school year) and other priorities it does make sense to get settled in before all the initial mayhem/stress starts. *Storage answered as well, thx.

Just curious, if retiring active duty do you still have a year for the paid for move/final pcs if you will to most anywhere you choose? (Might be based on your initial active duty entry point?) Or was it just having your goods in storage for one year and being able to extend every year up to five years if you submit your request on time? *UPS may still move you on their dime to base? Or was that FedEx, or both? Congrats on those moving into their newly chosen career destinations. Enjoy the differences and we’ll done!

Bottom line like SocialD stated and many others - If the aircraft is not doing what is required or what you want, turn OFF the automation. All of it if need be. Fly your aircraft! Valid videos. *Previously we weren’t allowed to hand-fly specific departures ever. Now we are allowed if the crew agrees and amount of busy-work/congestion is manageable. Slap automation on when required; otherwise, maintain your proficiency as best you can. It’s not easy in the Heavy world when we fly long legs (1 maybe 2, rarely 3) with 3 or 4 pilots on a routine basis. Must keep vigilant.

Well, I was considering a jump to our 777s - not now… kidding of course, but 5G is what we’re definitely watching out for as our -8s fall into some restrictions. Our older 74s do fine as I examine our tails # on a list every time I fly them. I don’t even have a 5G phone so I guess I’m alright correct? 😂

No worries, it was never taken that way. This lifestyle is basically a niche in the industry. Well compensated (not extremely well), interesting and fun flying job/hobby touring the world on very decent schedule (not the duration, but it is less compressed). You are undoubtedly correct, the majority of the world has great responsibility and $$$ creates freedom and security; therefore, it is prudent/logical to plan/prepare your family’s future with the best investment/opportunity. The driving factor is to chase the most coin for the least amount of effort. Over time Big 3/Purple/Brown have provided these attributes hands down and are the most stable in this cyclic industry. Nothing is solid, but they are the best bets. *Like the premier question from a High School counselor decades upon decades ago: “If you had a million $ (Use $5 Million today), what would your occupation be if you must choose one?” My Answer - Flying Pirate - I would still be here (specifically) only because it meets my needs/wants, I get bored too easily and this provides enough adventure to stay awake. Honestly, with $5 Mil I would do something else if I couldn’t do this vagabond flying pirate gig. If you can, fulfill your priorities not someone else’s - everyone needs to find their niche! You only have OneLife, make good choices - make them count!

Just my take purely for me and my wife. ACMI - Beauty IN the Beast. Bottom Line Up Front: To be fair, if it weren’t for paid tickets and hotels and I didn’t have a pension, etc. I would have left long ago. Unless living in base, half of your pressure/work is getting to your job. I could bail right now only because of the many friends at FedEx/UPS, but I have lived in the Far East, went to High School in Japan (fluent speaker) and have family there as well as in Europe. No other company gains me access on a regular basis to both regions and international travel (even during virus max ignorance, it’s getting better) is a huge priority and I enjoy it. Already lived in 13 states, visited 30 others and if I ever travel beyond 65 it will be in an RV or renovated school bus (lived in HI, routinely in AK so it will be easy) to the remaining seven or other noteworthy Americana. We are a great stepping stone to other goals while you wait, but I have more than a decade of seniority what little control it gives me and have figured out what little nuances in the contract pay forward a long way. We are not as regimented/controlled as others and operationally things we do here (not safety related) would most certainly get a pink slip elsewhere. I actually come to work happy and leave it behind thankfully - it gets long no doubt. Don’t have a strong household working relationship with the better half, have young kids, despise long haul hours in a tin can, mediocre airline food, prefer McDonalds/KFC during layovers, love the monkey suit, want FA’s, abhor change (schedule wise/has calmed down quite a bit) and of course demand an industry leading or even on par contract in a few areas, do not come here. *I do suspect more cheddar will be thrown our way as others start leap-frogging each other’s contracts. It’s just reality. Couldn’t believe LTD was offered however that turns out and a 2% DC was given to us. Many were disgruntled at the mere 2% compared to 15-16% DC or more at other carriers. I don’t think they realize that it’s the foot in the door and now there’s a crack of light no matter how small. We definitely require more. At least the 100% match on your 10% contribution has solidified. Profit sharing doubled in size compared to last year, but that can be adjusted so be aware. At least we are seeing some of the same types of verbiage in other contracts being used in ours. Bail if you need too, stay only if you like it - always a flying adventure compared to any other civilian operation and a grandiose scale of travel. Everyone’s priorities are different so choose wisely!

I cannot speak to North American but based on several friends here from Evergreen it was a far cry from being great. Some folks from ATA and Gemini are glad to be here as well. Kalitta is going thru turmoil a bit right now, but ACMI’s as a rule tend to have IBS no doubt. Primary frustration here at Atlas is everyone knows it could be the Best outfit to work for hands down, but that unfortunately will never happen across all scales. It meets and in some cases exceeds some folks priorities but most definitely can be better. It has some of the better work rules of other ACMI’s, gateway is better than most but could be better like home basing. Unfortunately some other gigs have 15-16 day vs our 17 day runs. The 76 guys do enjoy their split schedules though. We have them on the 74 but it’s the commuting that keeps me doing 17 day runs and getting weeks at a time off just something I prefer and I never think about this place until I leave for a trip. Much more tenable if you choose to live overseas, many of our pilots do. Flying is diverse, not as many cookie cutter runs, pax runs if you like those (AMC, NFL charters, etc), international heavy on the 74, 777 predominantly. 76 maybe a third do international. 73 is a startup still and we’ll see how far that goes. Totally agree, if you’re young you have many options and it’s never been easier than before to choose your final destination. Longevity wise it is great advice to look elsewhere as ACMI hasn’t been known as holding an everlasting future like FedEx/UPS, some LCCs and of course the subsidized Big 3. We will fail by government standards long before the others. Had some Gov cheese thrown our way, don’t know why but the company didn’t give it back is my understanding. Long haul our way is not for everyone, compensation is just OK comparably speaking (higher than most right now, but that is short lived for pandemic reasons). You can make a lot of extra clams but it will cost you some days off during normal times. We have scheduled freight lines, customer specific lines(variable), Pax Charters, AMC, Amazon (not a good profit margin as it looks like our initial aggressiveness towards it has throttled back), plenty of other airline support (FedEx/UPS/NCA, etc), Titan leasing, etc, etc, so it’s extremely diverse for success or to our own detriment but has been working for a few decades now. Nothing is guaranteed in our profession no matter where you are. Just set your goals, choose your priorities and make it happen as best you can. No one knows if their career was the right choice until looking back and I pray your “outlook” is good - 8 Ball.

On Point totally. “New Contract” has a few no- brainer variables that need to be fixed. We are hoping the rest of the industry gets even better contracts to help bring ours up. Hemorrhaging talent helps our situation immensely as seen in December with the additional LOA’s. Personally, for those who enjoy what we do and have their priorities met we’ll keep on pushing for better additions. The others looking for the polo shirts of the Big 3, etc. I wish them the best on their future endeavors. They need to have what fits their lifestyle/priorities as soon as possible as many of the outfits have been flooded with new hires. Sooner the better to get that seniority number under their belt for quicker upgrades and equipment basing, etc. Jump quick, the rollovers to bigger and better deals will only be delayed if you don’t.

Totally agree on both accounts. Had a physical a couple of months ago and a Delta guy was there and who was totally worn out with it (his schedule). Nothing like the good times before the panic. The lack of crews is bleeding them dry (lifestyle wise) and with the “optimizer” wreaking havoc it can’t be fun. Even some of the cargo world suffers from this, but hopefully the constant hiring will alleviate a lot of it. That “optimizer” thing, geeeesh. Heard plenty about that from my friends and they mentioned they aren’t even given compression socks… it’s more like a body sock.

Looks like a good trend towards booking summer trips for many pax haulers. 20% pre-Covid levels maybe even 15% and even out by the end of the year hopefully. Unfortunately War has taken over the headlines but a good by-product if any is that the virus has taken a back seat for now. Elections will hopefully help to overshadow virus spikes when that rolls around. High hopes for 2023 and some decent projections for 2024 which remains to be seen. All information from articles; therefore, nothing but best guesses except for fuel prices which are affecting airlines now and will continue to hamper faster recovery as this has always had a ripple affect. Profit sure, just less profit and if passed to the customer Sandiegosurf is right on the money!!! *Insanity continues: Just flew to ATL from my home state TN today. Older couple next to me flew out from AZ to TN a week ago on SWA. They tried to return this weekend on round trip ticketed flight and it was canceled. Tried to rebook, unable, tried to call their help/ticketing desk, nothing, etc. Ended up on my Delta flight to ATL to return to AZ. Cost them $1,100…EACH!!! So unhappy. Something isn’t right in the neighborhood this weekend. It seems every few weeks some carrier(s) are restructuring/hiccuping/experiencing business related compressor stalls. *Just my analysis after be-bopping around talking to many pax crews these few months: Until I find any crews happy that their schedules are like they were before the viral debacle, it’s not stable or cool runnings if you will. Takes time to bring back everything to normalcy but at least it’s rising from the terrain.