Pooter

Stock market - up (after the war tanked it) Oil - down (after the war spiked it) Straight - open (after the war closed it) The Dow, oil prices, and commerce in the straight were all humming along just fine before we started this boondoggle and now that we trashed all three and have begun to unf—-k the situation I’m supposed to admit some big win happened? We are slowly progressing to get back to square one. The mullahs and IRGC still run Iran. They still have nuclear material. They still have ballistic missiles that can hold our bases in the region at risk. Now we’re lifting sanctions on Iran to get a fragile ceasefire and commitments that they won’t develop a nuke—which is exactly what the JCPOA was the whole time…

😂 my mistake I didn’t realize you speak for.. the world

Well I know we already disagree about this war but to your broader point I would argue our tolerance for casualties is right where it should be.. in inverse proportion to how stupid the conflict is and the amount of lies used to sell it.

Regime - intact Ballistic missile threat - intact Nuclear material - at large Population - more rallied behind their government than before Regime - pinky promising they won’t make a nuke which you wouldn’t believe last time but will now for some reason Yeah dude so much progress has been made

Obviously I don’t know and couldn’t post it here if I did. But leading up to the ceasefire it seemed like hits on our stuff were increasing — AWACS, PSAB tankers, THAAD radar array etc.. all open source. And this was after a month of attriting their launchers. Also open source reporting from the Israel and US side that interceptor numbers were getting “critically low.” I’m not saying the patriot/thaad/sm-3 aren’t super rad systems. I just don’t think we were winning the volume game or ‘exchange ratio’ @ClearedHot alluded to and that was one of the reasons the desire for a ceasefire seemed urgent on our side

How so? The war was launched based on an “imminent nuclear threat” which none of our intel agencies corroborate and the White House won’t elaborate on. Tulsi Gabbard dodged the question when asked about it and our own counterterrorism director resigned in disgust. As far as having no plan, I think that is made more evident day by day as the goals, strategies, and rhetoric shift constantly. Every time Trump is asked what the plan is he just goes “I think something amazing will happen in the next few days and the war will be over very soon.” And then the war doesn’t end and nothing amazing happens. Just more incoherent tweets and strategy pivots. Whenever I ask you guys what the plan is, all I get is “rEduCe iRaNs iNflUenCe iN the rEgiOn aNd mAKe sUrE thEy cAnT pROjeCt pOwEr” Sick. Has any of that been accomplished? And before you say we blew up their Air Force and Navy for the 69th time, I’ll just nip that in the bud.. at no point ever was the primary power projection concern with Iran their Air Force or Navy. At this point If you believe this administration has a coherent plan, you’re the naive one. Before the last negotiations they said “Iran is desperate for a deal” and then came away with no deal… The “fell for it again” meme could not be more applicable than for some of you in this thread.

Idk how this is anyone’s conclusion watching this conflict. Iran basically had nothing but TBMs and drones and were able to attrit our systems and interceptor numbers to the point they were scoring direct hits on strategic assets up until days before the ceasefire. How can we expect after that result to be able to deal with a real peer threat like China that can throw the entire spectrum of munitions at us including things far more advanced than anything Iran can dream of? The statement (elsewhere in the thread) that we need more interceptors is the understatement of the century. And a variety of systems is key too. The army is lagging insanely behind in counter drone technology despite watching it play out for years in Ukraine. I’ll just say that it’s typical army.. they want their tank and artillery ground war and everything other than that plays second fiddle strategically for them in terms of development and funding priorities. I think this conflict should serve as a huge wake up call. We are shit hot on offense, nights 1-7 but sustaining a war in a contested space where your assets are actually under threat isn’t something we’ve dealt with in a long time.

Woah holy cow Obama and Biden launched a war of choice against Iran with no plan based on pressure from Israel, blatantly lying about an “imminent nuclear threat” our own intel agencies assessed the Iranians weren’t pursuing? I must’ve missed that part of the last decade.. Oh actually none of that happened and they did address the problem like semi-competent politicians. They negotiated the JCPOA which, while imperfect, provided a baseline for enrichment limits, inspection intervals, and further diplomacy. Trump then ripped it up while promising a way better deal, launched a war, and is now floundering to try to get back to some semblance of the diplomatic solution we literally already had.

lol it was pretty heavily implied when not a single person acknowledged there might be downsides to choking off a major global energy supply route. “Why is the US blockading Iran to ramp up economic pressure such an insane concept to you? I’d love to here a critically thought out argument against foreign policy 101, along with how you would have dealt with Iran blocking the strait and attempting to play the one card they had left to influence war outcomes in their favor.” Well that’s the thing about starting a stupid war of choice predicated on lies with no strategic plan.. you might end up painting yourself into a corner with only bad options. Which is where we currently find ourselves. Yes I agree that blockading the straight is the best bad option we have right now. The point is that we never had to be in this situation in the first place. My comment is simply pushback against the trump sycophants in here pretending it’s some genius strategic move with no downsides. Edit: Also the onus also isn’t on me to come up with a better plan. I wasn’t elected president, didn’t start this war, and have been against it the whole time.

Don’t be so negative dog we uno reversed carded their blockade with our own even more dope blockade. It’s a genius move that gives us nothing but leverage and definitely isn’t gonna have a bunch of unintended consequences. I’m tired of people making this whole thing about Trump and his administration. If it feels incoherent and made up as we go that’s just because you’re too blinded by your libtard-ness to see the genius bigger picture

Ok now let’s take your one inch deep analysis (close trade route -> gain leverage -> everything is awesome) and ask the obvious follow up questions: We don’t use much oil from the straight.. cool. So it shouldn’t affect our prices much right? Wrong. We live with something called the global economy and when supply of a commodity drops, effects of that percolate through the whole system. American oil companies will sell to the highest bidder just like anyone else so higher international demand will cause domestic prices to spike. Sorry, we don’t get to go on military adventures around the world and then suddenly pretend our own economy is isolationist. What happens when China is cut off from a huge portion of their oil imports? I guess in the world where we don’t consider follow on effects we’re just gonna ignore that. Are they just gonna sit back and take it? Are they going to put pressure on us to open the straight again? Are they going to raise their export prices to offset increased energy costs? Hmmm I wonder what country imports the most Chinese stuff….. Or What happens when (god forbid) one of our ships, now dicking around much closer to Iran than they were before, gets hit? Or hits a mine? Iran still has a very real missile, mine, and drone threat and now we’re basically just doing the navy version of seizing Kharg island—parking a bunch of juicy targets right off their coast. Again, the escalation ladder is sitting right in front of us and you guys are completely blind to it. What happens with the civilian population when the Iranian economy is fully destroyed by our blockade? I’m sure they’ll come running happily into the open arms of the country that’s doing it to them. It’s definitely not going to cause a rally around the flag effect much like trump’s tweet about killing their whole civilization. Any minute now the populace is going to rise up and turn the country into a flowering democracy…

You know the situation is getting incoherent when the thread goes suddenly quiet aside from grandpa chain email memes and babylon bee links Everything’s going great guys 👌👌👌 trust the process

Still waiting for someone to explain to me why if Iran is totally weak and decimated, we’re using their 10 point plan as the basis for negotiations. 🤷🏻‍♂️ guess I’ll have to keep waiting. Best you’ve got is.. wHaT are U smOkiNg?!??

Maybe you should call the White House and tell them that.. they seem to not have gotten the memo. If I recall correctly, 4 days ago (ancient history I know) Trump tweeted “open the fuckin straight you crazy bastards.” A free and open SOH was also a stated goal of the war, and per Trump it is “key condition” of the temporary ceasefire. This seems to contradict your assertion that we can just sit back and let Iran self-immolate by closing the straight as long as they want.. if it’s no skin off our back why is our president ranting about it?

Hell yeah brotherrrrrr why grapple with the unpleasant reality of what’s actually going on when we can just macho talk wish cast

Not sure what a Biden covid inflation rant has to do with our current war of choice in Iran and its negative consequences, but you do you man. And yes Iran is in a stronger position. Our president told them that when he said their plan was a good basis for negotiations. But dont take my word for it, let’s see how the neocon right is taking the news: Huh weird. Nobody seems to want to talk about it. Must be going swimmingly. FFS Fox News’ top headline the day of the ceasefire announcement was a lady missing in the Bahamas. Anyone done a wellness check on Shapiro and the Adelsons today? 😂😂

Interesting I will check that out

My position is that the price of gas is just one of the many crappy side effects from this stupid and counterproductive adventure. It’s also funny that a metric every right winger was obsessed with “I did that” under Biden has now suddenly lost its importance. But to your broader point: If Iran is utterly decimated why is their regime still in place and now charging tolls in bitcoin and or Chinese Yuan to pass through the straight? If they’re decimated why is our own president saying THEIR 10 point plan is a good basis for negotiations? You guys keep saying funny macho shit like BOOM! ROASTED! TOTALLY DECIMATED! GAME, BLOUSES! But at some point we’re gonna have to confront the reality that Iran is in a stronger geopolitical position now than at any point in at least 10 years

The claim wasn’t: gas has been historically more expensive under Trump than Biden The claim was: we’re in a stupid war of choice right now that is directly spiking gas prices right now

lol one of us is raging and calling people toddlers and it isn’t me. I’ve already listed things trump has done that I like. This war isn’t one of them. I’m perfectly willing to call a spade a spade and say when something is good policy or bad policy no matter who did it. This war is turning out to be very bad policy and it doesn’t matter if it was started by Trump, Biden, Kamala, Mickey Mouse, or Pickle Rick. I’m sure Trump’s ‘we’re gonna exterminate all of you’ rhetoric was uniquely unproductive, but in general I’d be saying the same thing no matter who was in charge. Not one person in here can explain how we’re in a better strategic position wrt Iran today than we were a month and a half ago. Or a year ago. Or when we had the JCPOA. Iran has more influence, leverage, and credibility right now than at any point I can remember.

Well you’re right actually everything was humming along just fine, and then we started a counterproductive war of choice that spiked gas higher than the Biden average. And now it’s looking like it’s gonna stay there a while unless you think a ceasefire that lets Iran charge the tankers going through the straight is gonna somehow make oil cheaper. But yet again I’m sure I’m just missing some crucial piece of the puzzle here and the 5-D chess will become evident in the fullness of time

Gotta zoom in really far on the doll’s ass to see it:

-No tax on tips is solid -I like how angry he makes blue haired liberals -I generally like his border hawkishness but in execution it’s been kinda a mess -his Supreme Court picks have been generally decent There. Now can we talk about how this war is a shitshow? Or are we just gonna deflect to Chicago crime rates or me being “triggered” or TDS again? Explain to me how we are in a materially better position right now with this 10 point ceasefire proposal, than we were two months ago before all this went down. And I’m talking strategically. I know we blew up a bunch of their stuff. We’re great at that. Cool. Explain to me how Iran is weaker in terms of regional influence today than they were last year. Because it seems like they just got us to tentatively agree to a deal that is better than anything they’ve had in decades.

wow with all that destruction it really makes you wonder how they got the United States to cave to their 10 point ceasefire proposal. It’s almost like rusted out tomcats and 5 goofy catamarans weren’t the basis of their power projection in the region. but don’t let me ruin a good spike of the football MURICAAAA