CJ-6A

I'm not sure that partial drug legalization is actually part of the solution. They aren't simply about drugs only anymore. Don't get me wrong, drugs are a large part of it. Mary Jane is just a drop in the bucket compared to the profits on cocaine, meth, etc... which will probably never be legalized. Like any good business, they have diversified. Many have evolved into essentially what Amazon is, a one stop logistical shop for everything.... kidnapping, human trafficking, pirating intellectual property, etc. Drugs may have launched their mechanism but their real bread and butter is how they sell and traffic their product. Either way it's a complete mess... especially when U.S. banks such as Wachovia in 2008 alone processed $378 billion in Mexico without any anti-laundering actions.

He single handedly destroyed a C-130? Hmmm

Agreed - I thought it was a great program, had a great time there and learned a ton.

I hear what you're saying Rainman... it's just that if you can't make it through IFS, you can't go on to UPT. Just my opinion, but guys with prior time seemed to do better on average at IFS. A couple people failed out for not being able to land an airplane and would "need a couple more hours" for things to click (generally speaking, those people had no time). As far as the passion goes...perpetual airsickness, attitude, and not being able to land safely seemed to be big ticket items at IFS. ...just sayin' regardless of how prior time or "passion" for flying will help someone do in UPT, if you can't make it past IFS you don't really have a shot to prove it.

There were mostly zero hour people in my class. Not that there's anything wrong with that... however, it would just seem to make sense that if flying is what you wanted to do for a career, you would get a couple of hours under your belt to see what everything is about. It was just a little irritating to see people in IFS with no passion for flying all. All but one of the washouts was from ROTC in my particular class - sure it varies from class to class.

Jenna Jameson Charged with DUI after slamming pole https://www.tmz.com/2012/06/25/jenna-jameson-charged-dui/ If that's the case, I figured she'd have about 6900 convictions by now

I thought it was a good program overall... definitely had some doubts going in based on other people's observations, but those were proven to be inaccurate. The only bad part about it was seeing people DOR who "didn't really even want to be a pilot" or "only picked pilot on their application because their ROTC Commander forced them into it"...sorry, but not much sympathy here. It wasn't especially difficult for guys with a significant amount of prior time (and it really depends on what type of prior flight time that is), just different and required a bit of adaptation and study - as expected. The IPs are all really experienced and professional. The academics were great and interesting. I really can't wrap my head around why anyone would go into a pilot career field (starting at IFS) with zero civilian flight time. Why not go rent an airplane and see if you even like it? A few people didn't seem to think flying was for them. Some people get washed out for not being able to land...some people for being perpetually airsick. Having an exposure to flying, however small, probably won't hurt.

It sounds like your starting with some presumption that people actually want "hope" or have some meaningful draw to it... wish it were the case. We tend to want to "give" them "hope"....Seeing everything as a political problem with a political solution, meanwhile pushing the delete button on over a thousand years of violent religious history. Good luck getting reason or hope into a culture that's completely shaped by "Allah's Will" or tribal differences. Our own refusal to understand this as a religious war is our own failure.

What? .....Crucifying a crew without knowing the facts.... that never happens around here....

No it wasn't

It's amazing the Navy is able to turn out pilots

"No hazard what so ever" ... "Absoluetly non-hazardous" ... What was that noise? ....Sounded like a few heads exploding on this forum. "We know that, you know that... Just don't do it anymore" - that sounds like the appropriate response.

I'll tell you what I wouldn't do... and I wouldn't let these guys' guts be spilt in front of everyone at the highest level. Especially, if the dudes in question were good guys with a great combat record. If they screwed up, I'd find out what the perspective was and deal with it internally. My point... don't blow it out of proportion, invest in good people... have their back, discipline and move on.

Why don't you re-read what I wrote... and actually think about it.

You don't justify it, you just put it in perspective... take appropriate action... learn from it.. and move on. My entire point wasn't to justify it, just put it in perspective. This wasn't a 737 full of passengers or Bud Holland, round 2. Most of the people here don't know the circumstances and people involved, yet they feel the need to gather the pitchforks and light the torches. There's no need for a witch hunt or to burn good dudes who may have had a lapse in judgement for a split second. I'm sure many here would be proud of you for not deviating from the POH.

Obviously you were there and know exactly what and how it happened, right? An Aileron Roll... which is different than a barrel roll... is a ~1G maneuver. It's not terribly hard to do. If you're putting negative loading on the aircraft, you just suck. Anyways... all agreed, it was a bad decision in the current climate... but from a 'safety of flight' standpoint, it's no different than an intentional / complacent over-g on a 50 year old airframe. Normal category aircraft, from an FAA perspective, aren't certified to do aerobatics because they're not required to go through a certification process (which may or may not mean they, structurally, can handle it). Not condoning what happened here, but let's just keep this in perspective.

Wow, just wow

My point is that it's being blown out of proportion and comparing it to Bud Holland is stupid. Everyone is getting on their soapboxes about what they think "flight safety" is... well, if that helps put a star on your shoulder... great. God forbid any one of you ever get yourselves into something like this... I'm sure there will be a bunch of overachievers looking to gut you over it. Was it a bad decision? Yes. Was it unsafe? No. This doesn't need to be a huge deal.

It's not a flippant attitude. This shouldn't have been blown up.. whatever happened to things being handled within a squadron? Guess that was a couple generations ago? You all are crying to lynch these dudes... come on. https://www.ntsbbar.org/getart.asp?ID=19903 While not entirely related, it does show that the NTSB/FAA has mixed feelings about different categories doing aerobatics. How, exactly, is rolling a King Air unsafe? Any proof of that versus any other flight regime? I'll buy that it's a bad decision and abnormal in the current climate... but unsafe?

Rolling a King Air is abnormal, not unsafe. Rolling a twin is nothing new, Bob Hoover did it with the SECAF (at his request) and a few other generals on board. Matt Younkin rolls a Beech 18 (at night!) as part of his show. Re: Doing rolls in a Lear... Clay Lacy did it as part of his show, no problem. If they screwed it up, it's because they screwed it up...just like you can screw up any part of flight. Anyway.. this thing is being blown way out of proportion... especially with making comparisons to Bud Holland.

The comparison to Bud Holland is a stupid one at best. Near knife edge close to the ground with a huge aircraft (i.e. BUFF or C-17) is a totally different event than doing a roll in a King Air at altitude. You don't know the details and if you did, you'd probably be less likely to make a comparison to Bud Holland. What TO/AFI guidance says not to roll a King Air? The aircraft did not exceed its G-limits, airspeed, or come close to a CFIT scenario.

If this would have happened 30 or 40 years ago, it would have been a non-event. Besides, there's nothing structurally unsafe about rolling a King Air. Anyone want to take a shot a Bob Hoover for not having flight discipline in his Air Force career.... or any other pilot of his generation? This should have been a non-event.

Yes, most do. As a matter of fact, most very successful business owners had to get credit (i.e. venture capital to start their business). It's not necessarily a credit card... but same general principle. The loan is leverage (at 2%). It all depends on how you use it.

If I had to throw an uneducated guess in the pot, it'd be that most fighter units will probably move to UAV/Recce and surviving fighter units will just be AD associate units for the homeland missions. State politics will probably keep a compromise going somehow.

Chimay Red 10/10