POC Benefits

[Champ Kind]

To each his own I guess.... Do yourself a favor man.... Try and enjoy the rest of your college days the best you can, you've got plenty of time to stress out and work your ass off.

[silverwolf0911]

Sounds interesting.

I don't understand something though. Some cadets don't go to some events? Isn't everything mandatory? I mean if it is all optional, then flaky people can screw over the entire event...

What kind of jobs/positions are available for POC cadets?

[AFCS_Actuator]

You'll find a lot of things are optional in ROTC. There are four things that aren't optional. They are: AS class, Lead lab, PT, and field training. Everything else, for the most part isn't required. With that being said, the guy who never participates in ROTC functions or extra stuff is going to be pretty low on the totem poll as far as class rank. The more you participate the more you'll stand out. The more you stand out as a good cadet the higher you will be regarded by the cadre and commander. The higher you are held the better chance you have of getting that scholarship or pilot slot or whatever it is you want. The moral of the story is be active in your detachment.

As far as POC jobs there are lots. If the cadre or cadet wing staff can think of a job it will be put on the org chart. It gets ridiculous sometimes. The main ones you want to get are flight commander, squardron commander, group commander, etc. If the title includes the word "commander" it is a good thing.

[Guest futurpilot]

silverwolf, ROTC is a game and you either choose to play it or not. If you choose to play then your objectives are simple....you be the best cadet you can and you focus on that goal. That means a perfect uniform ALL the time. It means going to events that the cadets hold as well as the cadre. It means paying attention in your AS class and not falling asleep. Answering questions and being the first to volunteer. It means being the first to PT and the last to leave. It means knowing all your procedures cold so that when one of your fellow cadets doesn't, you can teach him how. It means hanging around the detachment to get to know your fellow cadets. Applying and writing memorandums for positions within the detachment. Trying to get the best PFT score you can and staying motivated while doing it. It means sacrificing YOUR time, even if its a Friday night, to get the job done.

[AFCS_Actuator]

///// Yup. The cadets that do the above get to be pilots or they get their first choice AFSC usually.

[ 19. July 2005, 11:58: Message edited by: Goin2UPT ]

[silverwolf0911]

Hmm.. interesting stuff. Thanks for the input, guys.

Reading around here makes me feel so young and ignorant of so many things that I think I should know.

If I was interested in doing an exchange program at my school for a quarter...would the cadre allow that? Exchange quarter meaning that I will be taking courses for one quarter out of country. Could I still take the AS class via correspondence? Or I just can't do the exchange program?

[AFCS_Actuator]

I've never heard of any ROTC cadets doing (sts) an exchange program. My guess would be no, but that's just a guess.

[Guest AceLaRue]

Silverwolf,

We had a guy go to Sweden for a semester his senior year and this year a junior is going to Spain for a semester. You just need to talk to your cadre and they need to look up the reg that explains what needs to happen. I have seen cadets double up on their AS class one year to make up for a year missed. Just talk to your cadre whenever you have questions...I never hurts to ask, but in this case I have seen it occur.

[Guest futurpilot]

I met a cadet last summer who said he was going to study abroad. I'm not sure how it works but apparently they will push back your commission date to allow you to do it....even if you are a pilot candidate. This is what he told me but I can not back it up as factual information.

[ 20. July 2005, 14:40: Message edited by: FSUpilot ]

[silverwolf0911]

Wow. This gives me hope. Would cadre look down on me because of that? Like would I seem uncommitted to the det and the AF?

Oh well. When I get to the det in September I'll inquire more about it then.

Thanks for the help everyone.

[Spartacus]

Just a word of caution... this can really hurt you if you do it. What happens is if you do an internship or study abroad thing then you will make up the missed ROTC classes during another semester. So if you missed a junior level class then you will take that class your senior year along with your senior level classes.

Here is where it can hurt you. If you are going for a pilot slot then that is a whole semester that your commander has to forget about you/think whatever he wants/or even dislike you for leaving and not being committed. This happened to two people at my Det. Both of them in different years went to do study abroad the semester after FT. This is the most critical semester for a pilot slot because that is when your commander and cadre really look at you for class ranking. If you're not there then you are obviously not going to be ranked very high. Both of these guys that I am talking about were great and deserved pilot slots. The first guy didn't get anything because of his ranking and was eventually picked up for Nav. However, he should have gotten a pilot slot, he had a lot of hours and was a great guy with great hands but when your commanders ranking is 50% of your score then it's going to hurt you. He just commissioned and never got bumped up to pilot. All of this happened because of an intership. Is an intership worth that much to you? Let me tell you it was hard watching this guy for the past year. He would always talk about how stupid he was and how he shouldn't have done that internship. He was in the Det almost daily trying to figure out a way to get a pilot slot. He looked at the guard and everything and it just never worked out for him. He was bitter, but it was his own fault.

The second guy got a Nav slot and is hoping to get bumped up to pilot, but we'll see. By the way, this is happening at a Det where just about every year we have a 100% pilot selection rate. The only reason why it's not always 100% is because of these guys who go and do interships. DECIDE what is more important to you, an intership or a cockpit. I know what I would do!!!

[AFCS_Actuator]

Besides, once you're full-up AD you'll get to see the world anyway. Well, at least the sandy parts of the world. There will be time to go chase Eeuropean girls after college. I'd go with Jetjock on this one.

[ 21. July 2005, 01:38: Message edited by: Goin2UPT ]

[Guest futurpilot]

^^^^^^^^^^ I agree.

[silverwolf0911]

Whoa..I see.

What if my goal isn't to be rated? I had my eyes on an engineering career. Develomental Engineer. How's the selection process for that work out?

[Spartacus]

Silver,

Well, dude it's all up to you. My personal opinion is that if you do a study abroad thing or intership then you will hurt yourself no matter what. That is JUST my opinion though. Just remember that you are always racked and stacked against your peers and going away for a semester is going to hurt that. In everything in the AF (ROTC) you have to compete against others. Even if you don't want to be rated you still have to compete for the job that you want. Why mess with your career like that?

Personally I am in a major that highly suggests an internship, but it's not required. I decided not to do it because of these factors. My career in the AF matters more than my fun and games in college. This is just my opinion though so take it for what it's worth.

[Guest uniballvisionmicro]

Guys, I dont say this to be mean, but get a life! As an AF officer, I can tell you that you guys are spending WAY too much time on ROTC. It is important, but being well-rounded is more important. 6 hours on the phone is rediculous.

The Air Force will be your life soon enough, enjoy college while it lasts.

[AFCS_Actuator]

Give me a break. What do you consider being "well-rounded"? I agree, 6 hours on the phone is prett stupid, it's called delegating, right? ROTC is the place to learn good work ethic and the Core Values. Some cadets do take ROTC too seriously, but some don't take it seriously enough.

[brabus]

I've seen a couple guys go away for a semester and come back to get a nav slot and end up doing engineering (both got what they wanted). So, it's not impossible, but what jetjock says makes a lot of sense. How can you be ranked well for that fall semester when you're not even there? Being that the AF needs engineers, I'd say you probably are ok to do this (assuming your grades and everything are good). Because lets just face it, you don't need to be #1 right now to be an engineer in the AF. Not dogging engineers, but the AF needs them so bad, that they won't really care if you're not in the top 5%. However, having fun abroad is still going to cost you in your ROTC career. If you're not looking to be rated or gunning for DG or something like that, then go for it, have some fun! But if you care about what positions you get in ROTC and your overall class ranking, I'd think seriously about going abroad.

[brabus]

What do you consider being "well-rounded"?

I think what uniball is getting at is that you shouldn't put all your eggs in one basket. Working hard in ROTC and caring about it is great, as you should. The example of 6 hours on the phone is trying to show someone who is not very well-rounded. While you should care about ROTC, you need to do other stuff. Doing ROTC stuff on a Friday night should ALMOST never happen. If you've got something big going on Sat, then I could see it, but if not, then let it go and do something fun for the weekend. You're not well-rounded if 95% of your time is spent doing ROTC stuff (that doesn't include hanging out with friends from ROTC). Let me know if I'm wrong on this interpretation uniball.

[silverwolf0911]

Brabus,

I did't know the AF was running low on engineers. I think they need electrical engineers really badly but I'm an aerospace engineering major. So I don't know if that goes for me as well.

To get selected for an engineering slot, what factors are looked at? And do the det commanders have a big say in this? (ie, does commander's ranking have a huge percentage in my future slot allotment?)

Reading around here got me all knowledgeable about getting pilot/nav slots, but not much for future engineers like me. Is there perhaps a better or more engineering-oriented forum/site I should be looking at?

[brabus]

The AF LOVES engineers. Reasoning is because they really really need all you smart folk to keep rolling out all the cool stuff and to keep all the crazy stuff we have running. However, the AF faces a huge problem of engineer attrition because you can make tons more money doing engineering in the civilian world. So, a lot guys do 4 and get out so they can make way more money.

I know a guy who's now doing developmental engineering (he was an aero major); he loves his job. I don't know for sure, but I'd say he was probably in about the middle of his ROTC class. That might be able to give you at least a little perspective.

As far as being selected for engineering, if you say you want to do engineering and you have an engineering degree (assuming decent grades), then you're pretty much a shoe-in. Commander's ranking is decently important for getting exactly what you want, but like I said, you don't need to be in the top 5% to get engineering. I know countless people who have gone into engineering who were the cross-town, nobody knew them, kids. They didn't do a ton in ROTC, but still made it to what they wanted, engineering.

Now, don't take this as me saying you can slack off in ROTC. Do the best you can, volunteer, try to hold good positions, but don't let the people going for rated slots try to tell you that you have to make ROTC 90% of your life to get what you want. Do the best you can in ROTC, but don't feel that you have to bust your ass to be #1. Personally I would bust mine because I like being at the top, but that's just preference, not a requirement in your case.

Sorry, I don't really know of a site like this more tuned to other AFSC's...I know it must be annoying for you with baseops considering it's practically all pilot/nav oriented. Keep looking, maybe you'll find something. Also, a good thing to do would be to find out what guys ahead of you in your position have done. i.e. do you see guys going to engineering who were ROTC studs, or were they just kind of there, did some stuff, and comissioned. There's basically those two ways to go through ROTC. Neither is necessarily better or worse, it just matters on which is best tailored to your situation.

Sorry for the long post, hope something helps out of it. Let me know if you have any questions or would like me to clarify anything I said in this one (as I wouldn't be surprised if I had to ;) ).

[Guest uniballvisionmicro]

brabus

- Rog. Thats my point. The AF will be your life. College is the time to not give a damn, and to have fun. Dont have regrets, but dont have regrets - get it?

[Guest Jpilot]

This thread should be renamed "toolbox". I hadn't read this post until just now, but seriously, the ideas and thoughts of some cadets in this post really make all cadets look like fools. Want to know the best benefit of being a POC? Having a guaranteed spot in this great experience known as the big blue.

On my way out, here's my advice for all cadets everywhere- Please take ROTC serious, but DON'T take it to the point where you're spending hours on the phone to just get your flag raised or lowered. Want to study abroad? Go for it. Remember, enjoy college and to echo what uniball said, have no regrets- you're only in this type of environment once in your life.

Jp-

[jazzdude]

so this is late, but hopefully it'll help some of the future wannabe engineers (I hope its not too cynical). If you can do an intership, it'll probably be in your best interest. Try for a summer internship, but if you can get picked up, it'll be a good experience. If you don't get anything else out of it, you will still have contacts within the business world, which will be useful after your AF career (however long it may be) Many companies will give you preference for hiring if you have completed an internship (and did well). Long term planning.

I never got the opportunity to do an internship during my stay in ROTC, but my end goal is to be a pilot, and I'm as on track for that as i can be at this point. I also didn't have the time for it, mainly because im squeezing my EE degree into 4 years, whereas many of my classmates in EE are going 4.5-5 years. Just a matter of priorities. I currently am looking for internships as an engineer for my time between commissioning and my report date

Best of luck to y'all, and i hope you attain the goals you set for yourself, whatever they may be

[ 23. April 2006, 16:16: Message edited by: jazzdude ]

[R-Dub]

Originally posted by jazzdude:

If you can do an intership, it'll probably be in your best interest. Try for a summer internship, but if you can get picked up, it'll be a good experience.

IMHO, this is VERY good info. I was fortunate enough to get an internship over the summer between my fourth and fifth year and it rocked.

[ 27. April 2006, 05:29: Message edited by: Toro ]