General field training info

[Guest Salukipilot2685]

Ok this might be a dumb question, but i did some searches and didn't find anything on other threads. At field training, are the awards awarded amongst all the cadets at that specific base during FT...or is it only among the cadets in each detachment? (hope that makes sense)

[R-Dub]

Awards are distributed according to the number of cadets per FTU, but (follow me here!), according to the distributive property of math, 10% for an entire FTU should equal the addition of 10% of each flight! For that reason, the awards for DG and SP are typically broken up per flight, and if the complete 10% and 20% brackets for DG and SP aren't meet, then the remaining allocations for DG and SP are distributed evenly throughout the FTU (That's why some flight have 3 SPs and some only have 2, even if they have the same number of cadets). Typically, the Sq/FTO and the other FTOs will meet to discuss which flight gets the extra(s) DG or SP slots. The other awards (like Ironman) are amongst the entirety (sp???) of the FTU. So, in short, you "compete" against cadets within your flight, however, FT is a team evaluation. Remember to help out your teammates more than you worry about yourself and you'll be fine.

[Guest cyrusthevyrus]

the evals are a load of crap. many people in my flight that deserved to be rewarded were not because it just so happened that the FTO or CTA did not like them for one lame ass incident. OR there were the few people that did get rewarded who were low visibility and really didnt help the flight much with what they did. it seems that when the fto needs to pick his DG and SP the logic behind it is pick the people who dont deserve it, and make the rest top 3rd. my sp and dg could not stay in step the entire 28 days.....go figure.

[brabus]

Yep, FT's a pretty lame attempt to grade everyone against eachother. Some FTOs are total d bags and others are really cool. Some don't care if you can't stay in step, others will practically give you a form 17 if you don't. All the evaluators (FTO and CTA) are just so different between flights and camps that FT really is a terrible way to provide part of ranking. Not to mention who's in your flight is huge. So, terrible sysytem, but just something we all gotta do. Worked out fine for me, but I certainly saw my fair share of cadets get totally screwed.

[Guest hockeymv]

FT is a means to an end. That's it. Don't get all bent out of shape about it. If you pass, congrats, go be a good upperclass cadet. If you don't.. well, sorry about your luck, but maybe this whole military thing wasn't the best idea for you to begin with.

And, for those all worried about awards, don't be. If you got one, and you truly earned it, congrats. If your DG was a toolbag and was Jekyll/Hyde in front of/away from the FTO/CTA, guess what, it happens, just like every other organization in the world.

I'm not trying to beat on FT or cadets in general here at all, just offering some perspective. I was really proud of myself when I was done w/ FT. I felt like I accomplished something, and I had. But, it's all just the beginning. Use the skills and lessons you learned at FT (positive AND negative) and use them to make you a better officer. How you do your job over time is what will prove what you are made of and what kind of abilities you have, not what some FTO/CTA thought of you in 4 weeks vs. 20-some odd other people in your flight (That look, sound and SMELL a lot like you).

Hard work and the right attitude will serve you well in the AF if you focus on your goals, enjoy your successes and learn from your failures as you let them roll off your back.

Good Luck!

[FallingOsh]

In my opinion, FT is an excellent judge of a person's leadership abilities under pressure. Obviously there are exceptions and nobody reacts to stress the same way. I agree FTO's and CTA's are all different, but you can't blame them for someone's poor performance. My girlfriend was a CTA at my FTU so I ended up hanging out with a few CTA's after we got home. They obviously wouldn't say names or anything, but the stories they had were amazing. There is a lot they don't see, but there is even more they do see. They said it's like watching someone try to solve a puzzle that you know the answer to.

I agree more with your argument that your flight mates have a lot to do with awards. If you have a flight full of bad asses, it's obviously going to be very difficult to be DG. On the other hand, my girlfriend's flight as a CTA was full of damn retards. She said they must've just closed their eyes and picked a DG because they all sucked.

Anyway, my main point is that I think FT is a very good way to evaluate what you have learned in your GMC years and how you lead under pressure. Typically, the people who hated it and thought it was a waste of time or only worried about getting top third were not the ones winning awards in the end.

My $.02

[Riddller]

Originally posted by FallingOsh:

In my opinion, FT is an excellent judge of a person's leadership abilities under pressure. Obviously there are exceptions and nobody reacts to stress the same way...

My $.02

OK, I realize that this was just your opinion and all, but how can you make this judgement? From what I just read, you are a junior who just finished FT last summer. I have 7.5 years prior E, and also just finished last summer. While I finished very high, it had NOTHING to do with my leadership skills and EVERYTHING to do with knowing how to play the game. Do you seriously think they got an accurate gauge of my leadership skills in the 4 days that I was Flt/CC??? No.

FT leadership is NOT real military leadership. They give you a ton of responsibility and ZERO authority. There was nothing I could have done to ANYONE had they decided to not do what I asked, and on the flip side, there was no way I could 'reward' anyone for doing an outstanding job. This is not how the military is run.

They tell you that a good leader 'inspires' their people to do a good job. Are you kidding? Sure, maybe if I was with these people for longer than 28 days, and in charge of them for more than 4, then I MIGHT be a able to tell them, "I'm REALLY proud of you guys!" and NOT sound like a total douche-bag, but its not going to happen at FT. Everyone who's been there, heard their 'tool' Grp/CC or Flt/CC or whoever say, "Come on guys, give it your all, if not for me, then for the Air Force...!!" or the flight or whatever, and every person they said it to rolled their eyes and thought, "Who does this guy think he is? Hap Arnold?" Yet when it was their turn, THEY DID THE SAME THING!!!

This is what I told my flight: "Hey everybody, you don't have to do a damn thing I say and there's nothing I can do about it. And if you do everything I say better than its ever been done before, there's nothing I can give you in thanks. You're not going to hear any 'inspiring' speaches from me because they're gay and we all know it from listening to them 5 times a day. During my time as Flt/CC, they will NOT be evaluating my leadership skills, because I don't have time to show any. They will just be evaluating how you do what I say, so all I can ask is that you do it for the next 4 days, and I'll return the favor."

Needless to say, the FTO and CTA were a bit miffed that I took their whole grading criteria and threw it out the window, but it got the job done.

If you don't take that place too seriously, its easy to sit back and figure out exactly what they want to see, and be able to play the game WITHOUT being a tool.

My $.02

[Gravedigger]

Good post Riddler, and I completely agree. As soon as you figure out that everything that goes on at FT is just a game, you're good to go. I thought FT sucked, but I still played the game and came home with a few awards. It has nothing to do with real leadership in my opinion, because a real leader doesn't get yelled at for being too blunt. I'm sorry but I'm not going to sugarcoat something if a member of my flight is screwing everything up. All that said, I think the CTAs and FTOs did a good job of finding the DG sharks, and dealing with them accordingly.

[FallingOsh]

Not that it makes any difference, but I'm a senior that finished FT summer before last and was the FTP group commander last year. Like I said, that doesn't make any difference, but I guess that explains why I'm partial to FT. I still think FT does it's job. It's obviously not perfect and an entire summer of it would probably be more effective in evaluations, but who wants to do that? I was Flt/CC for 9 days. At no point did I ever tell the flight, "Hey you don't have to listen to me if you don't want to." If that approach worked for you then great.

I do completely agree with you that ROTC, FT included, cannot possibly simulate active duty AF. That's not the point of FT. If I ever see an officer marching 30 people to chow and trying to get there within a 3 minute window, I'll probably shit my pants and seperate from the AF. Again, Field Training has nothing to do with active duty.. only to evaluate what you have learned in the first years of ROTC, how you handle stress, and how you interact with total strangers.

[ 07. September 2005, 11:36: Message edited by: FallingOsh ]

[Guest ce2be]

The grading at FT is arbitrary at best. Like anything else where people are involved, personalities come into play. A DG in one flight, could end up bottom third in another flight. It seems to me the point of FT is to weed out those that aren't commited enough to put up with the BS for 28 days, and those that just aren't up to par.

If you haven't gone yet and are reading this, check out what downbeat posted above. If you make a decision and can justify it, whether is is a dumb decision or not, you are doing good.

And my own $0.02 worth of advice is to approach FT (and ROTC in general) like you should approach being on active duty. Don't be one of those that is always doing everything trying to get the award. Do your job the best you can all the time and your rewards will come. They might not be in the form of CGO of the Quarter all the time, but I can assure you that the professional respect you get will be more rewarding than being known as one of those guys...

[AOF_ATC]

For those who have attended:

What did you think of it? Was it a challenge or a joke? What activities were involved and how much PT each day did you do.

Also what do you think about the ever present comment that the AF 'boot camp' is a resort compared to other branches? I haven't attended yet, but that statement pisses me off to a certain degree. It makes it seem like anyone could get to where I will be, and I take pride in becoming an Air Force officer.

[ 11. March 2006, 23:54: Message edited by: JasonG ]

[brabus]

Biggest joke/waste of time ever. What I learned at field training.............uhhhhh........how to stop bouncing while marching, does that count? And yes, it's fvcking ridiculously easy compared to every other service. So when you get sh*t from your buddies, just tell em you know it's a bunch of gay crap, but it wasn't your choice to have it this way. There is absolutely nothing hard about ROTC, FT, etc. You can throw it back at them after you go through UPT, FTU, etc. I'm sure that's much more stressful and challenging than any basic infantry course.

[Guest Spitfire]

Anytime I wasn't eating I was thinking about food. I was bored, and there wasn't much interesting or challenging stuff to change that.

The biggest piece of advice I'd give is don't get kicked out for having a candy wrapper or something like that. Relax and be confident that you'll do well, because almost anyone can handle Field Training.

When you get really bored, try to see how much food you can eat at chow in the time allowed. JETO was the most exciting part for us...but you won't have that, because the AF won't charter 727s for a bunch of cadets anymore.

[Guest Flight]

For me, it was just really freakin boring. The first couple days are the only real exciting ones, just because you are trying to acclimate to the environment. I was at Maxwell 1 last summer, and it was nice! You stay in the new OTS complex where everything is within about 2-5 minute march, except the Air War College. After the first week, they run out of stuff for you to do then it just becomes repetition. BUT.......Do not go into FT with the attitudes that those of us who have gone through are portraying. It will bite you in the ass. Just go in ready to work hard and play the game. If you act like FT ain't ish, your FTO still can make your stay shitty! So wait until after FT to bash it...

[Guest Sebastian]

Originally posted by Flight:

BUT.......Do not go into FT with the attitudes that those of us who have gone through are portraying. It will bite you in the ass. Just go in ready to work hard and play the game. If you act like FT ain't ish, your FTO still can make your stay shitty! So wait until after FT to bash it...

Agreed.

For me, in retrospective, it was cake. There was never a time when I was like "I just can't do this." However, quite often I was like "this is completely and a waste of time.

The biggest problem is staying motivated for the whole 4 weeks. Just make it through it and do what your told. For me a little motivating factor was knowing that only ~2000 college sophmores were would have this experience with me.

[FallingOsh]

Try to have your leadership position in the first rotation. It'll be the most stressful, but if you do well then it's easy to gain the flight's and FTO's respect. After your rotation is done, spend the rest of the time backing up your current commander. Basically just get the hard stuff out of the way first and then "lead from within," which means march to chow and back three times a day without screwing up.

You can't compare FT to basic for any service. It's not designed to be basic and you'll be disappointed if you think you're coming back an expert marksman killer. You will come back able to do more situps, but thats about it. The whole point is to evaluate what you've learned so far in ROTC and how you think under pressure. Pay attention in FTP and learn the FTM cover to cover.

Overall, I wouldn't call it a joke. Like Flight said, you've got to take it seriously or you'll fail. Flyers that have been through UPT look back and say it was gay. But if someone goes into UPT not caring, they probably won't even make it into the jet. For our Det, how you perform at FT also has a big impact on what jobs you'll have in the corps as a POC. Those jobs lead to more recognition and that helps categorization or getting the AFSC you want.

Enough rambling. I might be strange, but I'm a big fan of FT for several reasons. Feel free to PM me for more incoherent bable.

[ 12. March 2006, 10:57: Message edited by: FallingOsh ]

[brabus]

Despite the fact I think FT is the most utterly worthless thing ever, it is very true what falling and others said about if you don't take it seriously, you'll fall on your face. You can think of it however you want, but just play the game. It's a 4 week long game that you need to play and pretend like you actually give a sh*t about doing 4 million GLPs and nightly journal entries . In the end, it's in your best interest to do as well as possible since it can and probably will affect positions you get in ROTC the next semester, getting a slot, CC ranking, etc. If anything, stay motivated and strive to do well just so you can look good on paper to get a slot, good position in corps.

[Guest salokin]

I agree with Joe - FT is far from worthless. I was a quiet guy before I went, and I learned to step up - to be a good leader. I graduated Top Gun because I did the best I could no matter what, and thats what I took out of it - to push hard in all situations, to help out my team, and to fix problems despite some stress. Granted, it wasn't very hard, but it was a great learning experience. Don't go into it just trying to look good on paper or "trying" to get DG - thats bullshit and not the kind of officer I want to work for. Go in with a good attitude and desire to improve your weaknesses.

[Guest Spitfire]

Jason - Don't get us wrong with our negative attitudes, most of us are at least few years removed and therefore older and more cynical. There is value in it for everyone. Getting a good leadership position should give you an opportunity to learn some things about yourself, good and bad, so that you'll be able to improve as a leader after you come back. You'll definitely want to show up with a solid "team player" attitude...that'll get you a lot farther in FT and in life than being able to make a good hospital corner with your eyes closed.

As for your original question about the PT - it was easy when we did it with our flights, and more difficult if they let us do ability groups, but never enough to break you. Everyone's experience is different because your FTOs and CTAs have a large impact on your daily activities - but that may change in the future as they have made an effort to standardize more of the training philosophy.

[Guest illini52]

It's an evaluation. Plain and simple.

School works the same way. Most of what you learn at school will never be applied to what your AD job is, however it's how you learn the material and perform that counts.

[Riddller]

Marine bootcamp was harder just because it was longer. It was easier in that you were learning to be a follower, not a leader, so you didn't have to think. You just kinda put yourself on autopilot and go. After a few weeks go by, you 'wake up' and are like, "Wow! I've only got a few weeks left!", then you zone out again.

At field training, you constantly have to be 'awake' (literally and figuritively, we always got 8 hours of sleep at bootcamp, only 7 at FT) and aware of your surroundings. Therefore, the days seemed to DRAG on and on and on at FT. THAT'S what sucked the most. The stuff you had to do wasn't difficult, you just had to get through it and play the game.

The biggest part of Marine bootcamp is getting that 'killer instinct' put into everyones head, while there is no such need for the AF.

[Guest vectorpecker]

i agree with riddller, i am a prior e AF guy and @ basic you could get by just hanging out in the back of the flight...

@ field training you will be 'forced' to lead at some point, whether it be as a flight CC for a rotation, or a group leader @ the LRC

my FTO paid attention to the people without leadership positions and observed whether they sunk or swam...and if they tried to swim, did they splash or was it smooth

i woke up every morning with one thought in my head "everyone goes home together." Everything i did supported that thought.

at basic this wasn't the case for my flight. 43 people started and 34 people graduated...there was no team and definitely no leadership...good luck and congrats to all with EA's

rob C

[egochecks]

Just take it seriously and be confident.

To be a minority here, I didn't hate it.

You should learn some things about yourself by being there. Be physically fit before you go but you'll do alot of PT there and you'll get your best PFT score there (typically).

Know your FTM so you can know what to do and help others do it.

The hardest part of it is to stay mentally motivated because there will be days when you're bored and fed up (the whole repetitive issue) and that's when you'll want to start slacking. Like everyone else is saying it's only four weeks so just commit and realize that it does affect other areas of your time in ROTC.

FT is one of those things that will be important to you when you're there and if nothing else it's paying some dues so you don't feel like a poser.

All in all I'm glad I did it. Why not? (NOT LOOKING FOR AN ANSWER ) My life isn't anyworse off for going through it.

Good luck.

[AFCS_Actuator]

FT is retarded. I pretty much hated every bit of it, except JETO (which got canned) and CATM. Playing sports was ok. Most of the rest of it was gay. On the flip side, like some of the guys on here have said, you have to take it seriously. It does count for quite a bit in the quest for getting a slot or getting some other job you want. Go there, try to have a good attitude, and be in great physical shape before you leave. FT is much easier if you're in good shape. Good luck.

[jazzdude]

just play the game. you have to go to FT if you're in ROTC, so make the most of it. sure it sucks that you lose a month out of summer, but your trading it for a future career in the Air Force. Go there with a good attitude, work hard but find time to relax (yeah, its hard to find, but its there), relish the small victories, and don't be "that guy"