General field training info

[CPE1704TKS]

Anyone from Maxwell 2 on here want to comment on how things went? I heard there were going to be a few changes/lessons learned from M1... and something about PT getting harder. How'd it go?

[Guest GFYHUA?]

Anyone from Maxwell 2 on here want to comment on how things went? I heard there were going to be a few changes/lessons learned from M1... and something about PT getting harder. How'd it go?

PT didn't seem to be that hard. But whenever there was an opening and nothing to do, PT was high in the to do list. The difficulty of PT means nothing. If you go to FT out of shape you will perform like crap. Everything you do requires you to be physically and mentally strong. You will be getting more and more out of shape while at FT, so you should come ready to kick some ass.

I would say that a lot of lessons were learned from M1. In my opinion, M2 realized that FT is supposed to have a little more intensity than kindergarten (sorry M1). M1 was the test and didn't know the limits, M2 I would say, pushed the limits a little more and turned out successful.

I saw a lot of cadets at M1 wearing tennis shoes with their BDUs. Oh shit! They may get blisters! Waaaaa. At M2, never happened.

M1 CTAs pretty much got the shaft and were not allowed to do the basics of their job ex. Overhead corrections. They ended up being more a presence and tagged along with the FTO. At M2, CTAs were allowed to do everything. They were treated like staff and even given many opportunities to evaluate the cadets. I was a M2 CTA, so it may be said that I am bias...but even the M1 CTAs agreed.

As much crap as everyone has to say about CTAs, FT would NOT be successful without them. HQ wanting to get rid of them would have been a big mistake. FTOs would have been boned.

All camps will be different based on senior staff and leadership...obviously, but each camp will learn from the previous mistakes. It should just keep getting better.

[USAF Pirate]

I saw a lot of cadets at M1 wearing tennis shoes with their BDUs. Oh shit! They may get blisters! Waaaaa. At M2, never happened.

Oh yeah I forgot about that. We didn't ask to wear tennis shoes at Maxwell 1, that was an initiative from staff. Most of us thought it was pathetic. We were ordered to wear tennis shoes with our BDUs for two days prior to departing for Blue Thunder, for fear that the training might be too intense at Blue Thunder and Joint Forces Training Center.

Maxwell 1s intensity was pretty weak, but it was also predictable. The staff just needs the time to discover where to draw the line. I really had a good time at Field Training Maxwell 1, I wonder what Maxwell 5s will be saying?

[jjfly]

So with all this talk about harder PT, what can I expect for M4? I heard from M1 that it was mostly running with 20 min. personal runs and two 3 mile warrior runs.

They have standardized PT at the HQ level to make PT the same for all encampments (which is crap). But if you're lucky and get a good FTO and CTA, you'll have evening PT/warrior runs too. I sure as heck plan on doing that w/ my flight...

One of the FTOs from M-2 told me that he took his flight on warrior runs so that he wouldn't gain any weight while he was there... 30 min. of PT in the morning just isn't enough in my opinion...

[Guest GFYHUA?]

They have standardized PT at the HQ level to make PT the same for all encampments (which is crap). But if you're lucky and get a good FTO and CTA, you'll have evening PT/warrior runs too. I sure as heck plan on doing that w/ my flight...

One of the FTOs from M-2 told me that he took his flight on warrior runs so that he wouldn't gain any weight while he was there... 30 min. of PT in the morning just isn't enough in my opinion...

Yeah, definitely work that with your FTO. You'll have extra time with nothing to do. PT is the best thing to do with that time. You only have to do 2 LCE's on cadets while in garrison...so that's one for a GLP or leadership position and one at the LRC. Don't waste time by doing extra GLPs when you could go PT. And smoking them on PT is up to you, but make it useful. And for the love of God...don't do anything that you can't do yourself and only do perfect form or nothing at all. It pissed me off hardcore when I would see a fellow CTA doing "pushups" and thinking they were awesome because of how many they were doing while they looked like they were dry-humping the ground and not even close to breaking 90 deg. Instant credibility loser... and holy dog shit! BDU Rank is one inch above the edge of the collar and parallel! The point of that rant is this; learn how to wear the uniform if your going to be a CTA please...

[Guest Jimmy]

I heard from M1 folks that the emphasis shifted less from asinine stuff like having mirror-shined boots and low quarters to actually doing/learning relevant things, even in-garrison. Basically the consensus was that there was less bullshit being strung along and instead the garrison portion was more relevant to preparing for BT and JFTC. Basically, for all you folks that went to M2 and on, is this still the case? Or are they starting to get anal about stupid details like not having perfect creases in BDUs or having a scuff in your shoes and basically turning FT into a huge test of anal retention like it was before?

[Guest Codename46]

Hey guys,

I'm going to Max 4 in a few days and am doing some last minute shopping. I gotta few qeustions.

*Are small seal-a-shine bottles contraband? I mean these things:

https://199.238.156.70/shopsite_sc/store/html/index.html

*Are gummi Flinstones contraband as well?

I'm bringing two medium-sized tackle boxes with some extra stuff I feel like I might need. I'll list them here and would appreciate any feedback on whether or not I'll need them:

Floss

Anti-itch ointment

2 Tide pens

1 Bleach Pen

2 small rolls of duct tape, one black. one orange

Tinactin

Superglue

Newskin (liquid antiseptic bandage)

extra glasses strap

rubberband ball

paperclips

small paper clamps

fishing line

plastic-jacketed copper wire

extra frogs

small stapler

4 permanent markers, 2 black, 2 silver

scotch tape

double-sided tape

measuring tape

1 bungee cord

extra moleskin

seal-a-shine

horsehair brush

100 cotton balls

Lincoln was and Kiwi parade gloss

10 quart plastic bags and 10 gallon plastic bags

4 Velcro BDU boot blousing straps

4 shirt stays (shirt garters)

Coppoertone spray-on sunscreen

Gold bond

Foot gold bond

Wet sipes

Electric razor

Mini composition notebook

mini D&C manual

Yeah i know, paranoid cadet is paranoid. I appreciate any feedback on what is excessive and what I may still need.

ETA: I bought two bottles of Kiwi honor guard edge dressing just to discover that it's contraband. Damn it. Guess I'll blacken the edges real good before I leave.

Also, I did half-decent on the PFA (92.5), but am relatively weak with pushups and situps (ok with running though). Any chances I'll run into problems with PT during FT?

Edited June 22, 2008 by Codename46

[USAF Pirate]

That liquid seal-a-shine will be contraband according to the FTM. A few items on your list seems extremely unneccessary. The Macgyver joke is spot-on. I will point out the items I think you are bringing that are extremely useless at Field Training. This is my opinion, but there aren't any situations Macgyver could help you at Field Training.

Useless:

Copper wire

Paper Clips/Clamps

Small Stapler

Bungee Cord

Fishing line

Super glue

Orange duct tape

tackle boxes (I don't know what size they are, but the only drawer you can store an item like that, the security drawer, is maybe 3 or 4 inches tall, 8 inches wide, 12 inches long)

Things I like that you are bringing:

Double sided tape

gold bond

mini D&C

I can't forsee a use for the "useless" items. Maybe someone else can chime in. And yes, the supply officer gets an opportunity to go to the BX a time or two.

[Guest GFYHUA?]

Hey guys,

I'm going to Max 4 in a few days and am doing some last minute shopping. I gotta few qeustions.

*Are small seal-a-shine bottles contraband? I mean these things:

https://199.238.156.70/shopsite_sc/store/html/index.html

*Are gummi Flinstones contraband as well?

I'm bringing two medium-sized tackle boxes with some extra stuff I feel like I might need. I'll list them here and would appreciate any feedback on whether or not I'll need them:

Yeah i know, paranoid cadet is paranoid. I appreciate any feedback on what is excessive and what I may still need.

ETA: I bought two bottles of Kiwi honor guard edge dressing just to discover that it's contraband. Damn it. Guess I'll blacken the edges real good before I leave.

Also, I did half-decent on the PFA (92.5), but am relatively weak with pushups and situps (ok with running though). Any chances I'll run into problems with PT during FT?

I was paranoid like you before going to FT. I brought a ton of extra crap and ended up not being able to fit in in my security drawer (the one place you can keep it) Those drawers are not that big at all. Don't bring the "out there" stuff. You will end up just throwing it back into your luggage for storage. Bring the practical stuff. I deleted everything you don't want to bring and put the stuff you will want below and what drawer it will go in. You cannot use edge dressing on your shoes or boots, nor leather luster like substances. We didn't stress uniforms the much at M2, but make sure you are wearing them correctly and still look decent. Shiny shoes and creased BDUs still do make you stand out among others. FT is less anal retention now and more focused on giving useful training. Dorms is still a big part. Cadets are racked and stacked before going to blue thunder based on their performance in garrison *so don't take it lightly*

Security Drawer

Floss

Anti-itch ointment

2 Tide pens

1 Duct tape roll (only tape you will ever need)

Newskin (liquid antiseptic bandage)

extra glasses strap

extra frogs

4 permanent markers, 2 black, 2 silver

measuring tape

moleskin

5 quart plastic bags and 5 gallon plastic bags (10 is kinda excessive, but maybe it would help your flight)

4 WORMS BDU boot blousers (don't use velcro, it will take too long and the Ranger tuck/fold is not allowed anymore)

2 sets of shirt stays (shirt garters - get stirrups)

Gold bond - just get the body triple action stuff

Wet wipes - prob would not fit anywhere, but could be nice

Bed-drawer

horsehair brush

Quick shine sponge (I brought it and didn't get any grief)

100 cotton balls

Lincoln was and Kiwi parade gloss

Mini composition notebook

mini D&C manual

Coppoertone spray-on sunscreen

Bug Spray (YOU LEFT THIS OUT! Don't forget it)

Personal Hygiene

Electric razor

Don't bring anything candy-like. Better be safe and bring some non gummy vitamins, but bring something!

For the push-ups...you will be fine if you know and can do a correct one. Everybody gets weak as hell at FT and eventually suck at them. As long as you can hold out to the PFA on TD-4 you will pass. You will get a lower score more than likely.

[Guest Codename46]

4 WORMS BDU boot blousers (don't use velcro, it will take too long and the Ranger tuck/fold is not allowed anymore)

Excuse my ignorance but what is a Ranger tuck/fold?

I have 2 BDU worm boot blousers. I didn't get any extras and couldn't find any at the local military surplus store, and the only ones I have been able to find were the velcro ones from a military surplus store online.

ETA: Also what will be the primary source of warrior knowledge during FT? Will it be from the FTM and Airman's manual only or will there be another booklet we have to use as well?

Edited June 23, 2008 by Codename46

[Guest GFYHUA?]

Excuse my ignorance but what is a Ranger tuck/fold?

I have 2 BDU worm boot blousers. I didn't get any extras and couldn't find any at the local military surplus store, and the only ones I have been able to find were the velcro ones from a military surplus store online.

ETA: Also what will be the primary source of warrior knowledge during FT? Will it be from the FTM and Airman's manual only or will there be another booklet we have to use as well?

Ranger tuck is when you roll your pants inside out and up your leg, then fold the excess of each pant leg tightly to the inside of your calf. Then you would strap the velcro straps around the fold. When you pull your pants up, the bloused area around your calf is tightly folded and doesn't bunch out around the top of your boot. It's hard to explain with text, but it looks "sharper" I guess. Either way, AFI's apparently don't allow that. So the best way is to place a worm around your calf where you want the blouse to begin and shove your pants under it. Velcro could work the same way, but it gets bunched up and twisted...annoying. If you know someone with a military ID or that can get you on a military base, you can definitely get the worms from any uniform shop usually next to the BX.

Warrior knowledge is given out daily. You basically have to memorize the new stuff each day and recite it at certain times or on the spot. You should have been given a warrior knowledge book from your det, but it is not crucial (I believe this is where they pulled the knowledge out of). You will not be given an additional booklet. There are separate written tests for both FTM and ATM.

[Guest Codename46]

My all-purpose checklist states to bring 1 set of civilian clothes, but I've heard that we are not allowed to bring them. Is this true?

[USAF Pirate]

Not sure why you heard you aren't allowed to bring them. If you get sent home from Field Training early (SIE, medical, etc) you'll wear civilian clothes home. If you complete Field Training, you'll travel home in your blues. Your civilian clothes will remain in storage for the duration of your Field Training.

You can't go wrong if your Form 2 tells you to bring it, so bring it.

Edited June 25, 2008 by USAFJosh

[MilitaryToFinance]

Ranger tuck is when you roll your pants inside out and up your leg, then fold the excess of each pant leg tightly to the inside of your calf. Then you would strap the velcro straps around the fold. When you pull your pants up, the bloused area around your calf is tightly folded and doesn't bunch out around the top of your boot. It's hard to explain with text, but it looks "sharper" I guess. Either way, AFI's apparently don't allow that.

Seriously? That was the way I was taught to blouse my BDU's and the only way I've ever done it. It specifically says in an AFI we can't do that?

Quick look through AFI 36-2903 has no mention of this not being allowed. All its says at 2.7.6 is "6. Individuals may sew down pockets but no local policy will be established to make it mandatory. Secure BDU pant legs around or in the uppermost portion of combat boot so the fabric of the lower exposed pant leg blouses over the top edge of the combat boot."

Edited June 26, 2008 by mappleby

[Guest MizzouCE]

Seriously? That was the way I was taught to blouse my BDU's and the only way I've ever done it. It specifically says in an AFI we can't do that?

Quick look through AFI 36-2903 has no mention of this not being allowed. All its says at 2.7.6 is "6. Individuals may sew down pockets but no local policy will be established to make it mandatory. Secure BDU pant legs around or in the uppermost portion of combat boot so the fabric of the lower exposed pant leg blouses over the top edge of the combat boot."

I think its because it appears "tucked", not "bloused". I could be talking out of my ass though. Tucked doesn't go over top edge of boot.

[Guest GFYHUA?]

I think its because it appears "tucked", not "bloused". I could be talking out of my ass though. Tucked doesn't go over top edge of boot.

Yes, exactly... While at Maxwell, the MTIs got on us for doing that. The updated AFI says something to the effect that the pants need to be loosely bloused over the top of the boot. I always have done the tuck before. No big deal, just while at FT might as well do the worms and follow the AFI.

[OregonHerc]

Yes, exactly... While at Maxwell, the MTIs got on us for doing that. The updated AFI says something to the effect that the pants need to be loosely bloused over the top of the boot. I always have done the tuck before. No big deal, just while at FT might as well do the worms and follow the AFI.

How many MTI's did you have?

[Guest GFYHUA?]

How many MTI's did you have?

We shared the MTIs from OTS. In total I saw like 4 the whole time. They only came over to help with the arrival, parade, and I think one other time.

[Guest okinawatyphoon]

Does anyone know when and how much FT cadets get paid? I thought it'd be right after we got back since I went to M2, but I guess not. I've read most of the posts on this forum but not all of them, so I apologize if this is posted elsewhere.

[Palangi]

Does anyone know when and how much FT cadets get paid? I thought it'd be right after we got back since I went to M2, but I guess not. I've read most of the posts on this forum but not all of them, so I apologize if this is posted elsewhere.

It took me three-four weeks IIRC.

[spectre56]

Does anyone know when and how much FT cadets get paid? I thought it'd be right after we got back since I went to M2, but I guess not. I've read most of the posts on this forum but not all of them, so I apologize if this is posted elsewhere.

It took a few weeks for me (a couple of years ago) and I got around 600 bucks.

[OregonHerc]

It took a few weeks for me (a couple of years ago) and I got around 600 bucks.

Same here. It was about three weeks for me. My pay was a touch less, because I live in Oregon, which has its own income tax.

[Guest okinawatyphoon]

I was just paid this morning, and it was a bit over $600 for Max 2. Thanks for your help guys!

[Riebs]

:beer:

Just got back from M3 few days ago.

Rumors about the PT were true. It was a joke. More out of shape now than I have ever been.

Took tons of extra crap that I didn't use or end up giving away - waste of space in my sec. drawer/middle drawer and bag.

I'd be happy to answer any questions from FT M3. Most of you that went should of heard of a 4 man "ranger team" during JFTC - that's me.

Oh yeah - First rotation group staff isn't fun at all :(

All you tool cadets : Quit worryin so much about what you should bring or how much yelling the CTAs are gonna do. Freaking go out and have fun.

I think I'm in love with nutrigrain bars because of ft. They were like gold.

Good luck to you all.

[Riebs]

One more thing.

Anyone know if I need to report into my COC or back at my Det for like a FT de-brief? My FTO at camp said we all would need to do that post-FT. Not sure.

Rieboldt