Azimuth Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 I know I can ask OGV or A3V for clarification and may do so some day. You have a question about a flight related AFI. You should probably start there before asking a message forum. If they can't give you an answer, consult the OPR on the front page of the AFI. I asked you the question because your previous post gave the impression that you personally knew what the AMC/A3V answer would be. I was curious if you knew this because of interactions with or as them on this specific topic. If not, your previous statement is confusing and misleading. I don't need or want you to say "I work in A3V and this is our interpretation", I would simply like to know if your previous post was a fact or an opinion. When I was last in AMC back in 2010 we talked to our OGV at the time since a copilot wanted to fly (while he was on the AO's) his Marine wife back from Hawaii (where she was stationed) to our base (where he was stationed). Our OGV and OG said "no." And since I haven't been in AMC for 2.5 years, who knows what they're policy is? You should probably talk to your DOV/OGV about it and they'll either tell you an answer, or get an answer from A3V. I don't think I do either. I've looked in AFI 11-401, AFI 11-202v3, and AFI 11-2C-(X, XX, or ###)v3 as well as the related MAJCOM and Base Supplements, FCBs, and FCIFs. Based on the specific wording in the only two sentences related to my question I'm convinced (as are about 50% of the folks contributing here) that there is no restriction against transporting family members as passengers. Do you work in DOV? OGV? MAJCOM/A3V? If not, no one really cares how you personally interpret the regulation or not. That's for your DOV, OGV, A3V to decide. Don't like what 11-401 says? I suggest you submit an 847 to change it. Realize that each MAJCOM can interpret it differently as well, which is why you're getting different opinions on what it says from people here. I know RODN and EGUN -135 bubbas that were able to fly their families around during TDY's, Typhoon Evacs, etc. I also know that AMC would never allow that. In addition to not reading selectively I also don't read added meaning into what is presented. When the AFI says that family members cannot perform airborne duties on the same aircraft it means exactly that. Passengers don't have airborne duties. The Air Force tends to be very clear when detailing prohibited actions (passengers occupying primary crew positions in flight, unauthorized aerial displays, etc.) so I don't think my interpretation of paragraph 1.10.2 is unreasonable or selective. 11-401 could just as easily say "members will not serve as aircrew on missions transporting family members" but, currently, it doesn't. Get clarification.
GearMonkey Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 When I was last in AMC back in 2010 we talked to our OGV at the time since a copilot wanted to fly (while he was on the AO's) his Marine wife back from Hawaii (where she was stationed) to our base (where he was stationed). Our OGV and OG said "no." This is exactly the kind of real world experience I was looking for. Thank you for adding these details. Get clarification. That is why I asked the question. If and when the situation presents itself I will consult OGV and/or A3V as needed. Until then I'm going to work further down the food chain. The bro network, both in person and on this forum, is an invaluable resource and a logical place to start when faced with a question.
Champ Kind Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 The bro network, both in person and on this forum, is an invaluable resource and a logical place to start when faced with a question. Agreed that this site is a valuable resource, but when you get called onto the carpet would you really rather say "I heard it from some dudes on BODN" vs "I cleared it through OGV (or whoever)". I'm no old head, but I've been doing this long enough to know that if something is vague and it is difficult to get a straight answer, it is in your best interests to proceed on the conservative side.
Wolf424 Posted January 8, 2013 Posted January 8, 2013 Sure, when I was in Stan Eval, I asked OGV how they interpreted something vague, ...so it is vague...
ChkHandleDn Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 Anybody ever Space-A with the 164th out of Memphis? I didn't see it as one of the bases on AMC's space-A website, so I didn't know if it would even be possible.
Guest one Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 (edited) I have. They don't have many flights but I have flown from Memphis to Hawaii and Memphis to Travis. Their recording number is 901-291-7202. Here is the info to sign up 164aw.spacea@ang.af.mil Fax: (901) 291-7230 Edited January 10, 2013 by one
Day Man Posted August 13, 2013 Posted August 13, 2013 (edited) just got back from a month-long vacation flying Space A (mostly)...a few tidbits for those looking to do it in the future... - As others have said, sign up for SMS. Seriously. The comm between TACC/the crew/the pax terminal is lacking, and it saved my ass a couple times. - As soon as you get leave, send a shotgun email to every pax terminal you can think of (google it for the list). The earlier, the better. - Get an AF lodging account to reserve rooms online; there were a couple instances where a phone call yielded no results but online did - Cross-check Pax terminal facebook pages and SMS, and set bingo dates. Your hotel/food/car costs may eventually exceed commercial air tickets. Good luck...you get what you pay for Edited August 13, 2013 by day man 2
slc Posted August 13, 2013 Posted August 13, 2013 Great advice. The last time I did this was mid '90s when I carried a little black book with all the contact info for different locations (taxi's, lodging, paper maps, bus schedules, terminals, etc) (think, no iphone, very limited intranet) I'm curious to see if the adventure has changed (for better or worse) with all this tech. Where did you go for the trip BTW??
Day Man Posted August 15, 2013 Posted August 15, 2013 Where did you go for the trip BTW?? NY, CA, HI, Germany, England, Japan, Korea (for a few hours)
Scooter14 Posted August 15, 2013 Posted August 15, 2013 For all you ARC folks out there... The Natl Guard Association (NGAUS) lobbied last year for expanded Space A bennies for gray area retirees, traditional Guardsmen/Reservists and ARTs. The benefits were to include the same Space A travel benefits as an AGR/AD member...likely at a lower priority...but still better than what we have right now. The last I had heard (back in December) was that it was to become a reality based on the 2013 NDAA and it had to be implemented by the end of CY 2013. I have not seen or heard anything other than that. The AMC website makes no mention of it at all (no big surprise there). Has anyone "in the know" heard anything?
slc Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 Awesome, keep us posted on thisl and I will research as well. This is huge in that right now we (TR's) can only travel CONUS (American Samoa, Guam) and that's it. This will allow transpo to Europe now. Sweet
ruttrow Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/s2112#summary/housedemocrats
Scooter14 Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/s2112#summary/housedemocrats Yeah but they reattacked and the last I heard was this in Dec... https://www.ngaus.org/blog/12/12/top-legislative-victories-2012
Vertigo Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 For all you ARC folks out there... The Natl Guard Association (NGAUS) lobbied last year for expanded Space A bennies for gray area retirees, traditional Guardsmen/Reservists and ARTs. The benefits were to include the same Space A travel benefits as an AGR/AD member...likely at a lower priority...but still better than what we have right now. The last I had heard (back in December) was that it was to become a reality based on the 2013 NDAA and it had to be implemented by the end of CY 2013. I have not seen or heard anything other than that. The AMC website makes no mention of it at all (no big surprise there). Has anyone "in the know" heard anything? The NDAA gave the SECDEF the authority to make these changes. The SECDEF never implemented. There has been no change to the travel categories.
ruttrow Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 Yeah but they reattacked and the last I heard was this in Dec... https://www.ngaus.org...-victories-2012 Rock on! I'm an ART and recently I was asked to participate in a survey regarding the elimination of the ART program. One of the quality of life issues I addressed was the inability to catch a hop on one of our tails and take my family to Hawaii or Europe. I would really like to see this happen.
Vertigo Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 Elimination of the ART program? New thread? Ironically the survey hit right as the furloughs started... more help to get rid of the Title 32s and make everyone AGR.
herkbum Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 ... more help to get rid of the Title 32s and make everyone AGR. What do you think AGRs are?
Vertigo Posted August 17, 2013 Posted August 17, 2013 What do you think AGRs are? They're not dual status like the ARTs are.
herkbum Posted August 17, 2013 Posted August 17, 2013 They're not dual status like the ARTs are. Correct. Techs are the only dual status fulltimers. AGRs are T32 AD, hence their name.
Vertigo Posted August 19, 2013 Posted August 19, 2013 Correct. Techs are the only dual status fulltimers. AGRs are T32 AD, hence their name. I guess I could have been more clearer by stating Title 32 civilians, but since the question was posed about eliminating the ART program I guess I assumed people could have followed what I was saying. Next time I'll go a little slower for ya.
herkbum Posted August 19, 2013 Posted August 19, 2013 I guess I could have been more clearer by stating Title 32 civilians, but since the question was posed about eliminating the ART program I guess I assumed people could have followed what I was saying. Next time I'll go a little slower for ya. I only comprehend in slow Southern drawl 1
Scooter14 Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 So back to Space Available Travel... The NDAA gave the SECDEF the authority to make these changes. The SECDEF never implemented. There has been no change to the travel categories. I agree there has been no change YET. But, isn't all of the verbiage in the NDAA law? So they will have to change the categories pretty soon. Just wondering if anyone had heard anything about that happening anytime soon.
Vertigo Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 So back to Space Available Travel... I agree there has been no change YET. But, isn't all of the verbiage in the NDAA law? So they will have to change the categories pretty soon. Just wondering if anyone had heard anything about that happening anytime soon. Negative. The verbiage states the SECDEF has been given the authority to have a space A program, and that eligibility and category of travel is left up to him. So while he can make changes at his discretion, he has not chosen to do so.
stract Posted January 25, 2014 Posted January 25, 2014 thread bump. I'm looking to space a to both Japan and Europe if possible. Can this be done without travelling back through CONUS between destinations? Just wondering how often Europe and Asia are linked via flights.
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