ROTC: Two/three vs four year program

[Guest Hammer]

you can still join ROTC.

Start by reading through AFROTC's website. There's a section at the bottom explaining the two-year program here.

Get the info your are looking for from the website and then contact your local detachment and ask to speak with the Unit Admissions Officer.

I've been corresponding with the Admissions Officer at my local Det for a while now. Everything I've been reading online, from this forum to the AFROTC official site to Wikipedia says I can transfer to SDSU and do ROTC in 2 years. But he insists that the 2 year program is ONLY for Prior-E cadets, and that at minimum I would have to do 2.5 or even 3 years (he can't seem to decide which is is). Does this sound like BS?

As far as I can tell, your situation (no prior military service) does not

qualify you for the 2 year program. We have never had a 2 year ROTC cadet

and usually this is reserved for enlisted personnel selected for special

commissioning programs.

Again, the minimum time you need for the program is 2.5 years, period.

Normally, I would probably be willing to extend my program to 2.5 or 3 years, if it would facilitate the ROTC process for me. Problem is, my birthday's in March, and I will be turning 28 toward the end of my second year at University. If I go 3 years, I will be 29 when I graduate, which will pretty much axe me for pilot. If I graduated after 2.5 years, I would technically be 28 still upon graduation in December 2010, which would work out if I could be pretty sure I commission within 3 months. Is it pretty much immediate after graduation, if you make the cut?

But then again he said this in a prior email:

Your situation is unique in that if you start this semester (FA 08), you

will have to spend 3 years in AFROTC. Even if you finish your schooling by

Dec 2010, you still need to take AS400 your last year. So in actuality, you

won't be called onto active duty until SP2011.

So you can see, I'm getting three or four seemingly contradictory stories here. The official literature and other online sources seem hopeful, but this is coming straight from the AO, so I'm not sure what to do. What it boils down to is if I can finish and commission by the end of 2010 (2.5 years) I'm gravy for pilot as far as timing. If not, I'm boned. I could be okay with being placed as a Nav or UAV contorller or cyber-warfare if that's where the AF needed me, but I will be severely bummed and disheartened if there's not even a chance of making pilot.

[Guest N733JL]

Hello all,

I'm new to this forum, but I've been researching on here awhile.

I'm also a Junior, looking to join afrotc. I'm finishing a b.s. in biochemistry within the next two years. Right now, the Tsgt at the det. is getting my package together, so far I've done my PFT (85) and AFOQT (waiting on results), and I've also filled out my form 45 academic plan until I graduate, AS300, 400 included. All I have left is MEPS.

I should find out if I'm in right before tipoff in Aug.

If I get in, I'm supposedly going in as AS300, then FT, then AS400. This is where I found my problem to be: I'm hoping to try for a Pilot slot, but I can't even try for a rated slot until I complete FT. If my FT is the summer of my junior year, but you have to apply in the SPRING of junior year, then technically, I can't apply for rated since I won't have FT results in yet.. This is what a Capt. from the cadre pointed out to me today.

We're hoping the Tsgt might have a trick up his sleeve, as the Capt. was surprised that the tsgt was getting my package together at all, and he has never seen a 2 year cadet so far as long as he's been there.

His surprised response to hear that I've already Pft'd and took my AFOQT and such, kind of discouraged me. He made it seem that what I'm trying to do is rare. I didn't even ask, but the chances of this waiver (for 2 years) getting through seems grim, as he made it seem. It's funny, the Tsgt treats me, and this package in such a routine manner, that it gave me a reassured feeling that I was just going through the process, but I guess I'm his "special project" as the Capt. called it.

Have any of you who started as AS300, on a 2-year plan got pilot? What was the Process like in terms of deadlines, FT and such?

Thanx

Edited July 2, 2008 by N733JL

[yerfer]

Hello all,

I'm new to this forum, but I've been researching on here awhile.

I'm also a Junior, looking to join afrotc. I'm finishing a b.s. in biochemistry within the next two years. Right now, the Tsgt at the det. is getting my package together, so far I've done my PFT (85) and AFOQT (waiting on results), and I've also filled out my form 45 academic plan until I graduate, AS300, 400 included. All I have left is MEPS.

I should find out if I'm in right before tipoff in Aug.

If I get in, I'm supposedly going in as AS300, then FT, then AS400. This is where I found my problem to be: I'm hoping to try for a Pilot slot, but I can't even try for a rated slot until I complete FT. If my FT is the summer of my junior year, but you have to apply in the SPRING of junior year, then technically, I can't apply for rated since I won't have FT results in yet.. This is what a Capt. from the cadre pointed out to me today.

We're hoping the Tsgt might have a trick up his sleeve, as the Capt. was surprised that the tsgt was getting my package together at all, and he has never seen a 2 year cadet so far as long as he's been there.

His surprised response to hear that I've already Pft'd and took my AFOQT and such, kind of discouraged me. He made it seem that what I'm trying to do is rare. I didn't even ask, but the chances of this waiver (for 2 years) getting through seems grim, as he made it seem. It's funny, the Tsgt treats me, and this package in such a routine manner, that it gave me a reassured feeling that I was just going through the process, but I guess I'm his "special project" as the Capt. called it.

Have any of you who started as AS300, on a 2-year plan got pilot? What was the Process like in terms of deadlines, FT and such?

Thanx

That guy is full of crap. Don't sweat it. Theirs more than one cadet in my det that went in as 300's and I know 1 got pilot and the other got nav (he's already finished his bachelors and going for the masters).

It's not an everyday thing, but its not like it never happens. What you should worry about is getting your DoDmerb in good standing, and your AFOQT scores. If they are passing but not godly, do NOT worry, it's only part of the whole equation for getting a slot. More importantly be involved in the wing and don't be the tool apple polisher that everybody hates. Good attitude goes far and is noticed by the cadre and your fellow cadets. It can be hard to stay positive with the sea of idiots surrounding you, but maintain the good energy.

For the guys who came in as 300's, they were here for a whole year and then left with the 200's this summer.

If you don't make it into ROTC, shoot for OTS. Everybody makes it sound impossible, but if people are still making it, you may be one of those people if you apply.

If that doesn't work, try the Marines or Navy. Your in a position to apply for an air contract with the Marines OCC (10 weeks of OCS) if you wanted. It's a great deal assuming your in good shape and have what it takes to lead an infantry unit and get dirty. An 85 for AF PFT won't get you far in the Marines. They don't mess around when it comes to physical standards. Train hard if your considering.

What det are you looking at?

[Gravedigger]

problem to be: I'm hoping to try for a Pilot slot, but I can't even try for a rated slot until I complete FT. If my FT is the summer of my junior year, but you have to apply in the SPRING of junior year, then technically, I can't apply for rated since I won't have FT results in yet.. This is what a Capt. from the cadre pointed out to me today.

That Capt is not very good at his job.

From AFROTCI 36-2013

3.3.2. (Exception: Cadets not completing FT prior to the March board will automatically receive FT score of “5”. Once FT is complete, upward adjustment to the OM is authorized based on FT results only).

AND

3.6.2. Applicants must attend FT the summer immediately following the March board in order to have their FT standing adjusted. Update the FT standing in the AFROTC database upon receipt of the FT report but no later than 31 August (see para 1.4.7 and 1.4.8 for board schedule and release date).

[Guest Hammer]

That guy is full of crap. Don't sweat it. Theirs more than one cadet in my det that went in as 300's . . . For the guys who came in as 300's, they were here for a whole year and then left with the 200's this summer.

Were any/all of them previously in the military?

Edited July 3, 2008 by Hammer

[yerfer]

Were any/all of them previously in the military?

Come to think about it, Add 2 more to that list. The additional 2 were both pre-military Air Force. The other guys, no.

[Guest Hammer]

Come to think about it, Add 2 more to that list. The additional 2 were both pre-military Air Force. The other guys, no.

Thanks. My Det AO is saying I can't do 2 years without prior service. I've sent him an email citing a couple websites that support my position, but it's nice to know there's someone who's actually seen this in the wild.

[Guest N733JL]

thanx alot guys, for all the input. I'm surprised, and excited to hear about those exceptions, I'll mention them to the Capt. when I speak with him. I'm really excited to get this thing started.. I've been wanting to be an aviator in the military for awhile now, and I've done so much research the past 4 years.. but until now, I haven't been far enough along in school to make any of it happen...

I started out wanting to be a Naval Aviator.. through the BDCP program (great program$$).. really motivated as my dad was a line officer on the Constellation CV64 and naval tradition runs strong in my family.. took the ASTB, did well and was getting my package together, at the same time researching and getting motivated with the USMC, looking into OCS and their flight guarantee opportunities. I'm near sighted so I got my PRK surgury last Aug.. then I got set up with the USMC officer recruit team here in SD, getting my package together and such, but never put it through.. there was always something about the AF that tugged at me.

I was closed minded, and all I knew about the AF I learned through Airwarriors (website), and friends in afrotc who were contracting in non-flying communities. The kicker for me was watching a couple of episodes of "Carrier" on Tv. I had an ideaof what it would be like staying on a ship, my dad was always on one, and I was just used to the idea.. until that show made me realize.. that I really didn't want to be on a ship..

Aside from Naval tradition, my motivation first and foremost, was for aviation. I need to be up there. I started researching how pilot opportunities differ in the AF and Navy.. how their cultures differ (especially in flying communities).. future outlooks on types of platforms I might be able to select for in the future, and with the 35's on the horizon, being an aviator in the military is even more exciting.

The AF emphasizes airpower, in the strictest sense. I like how it's so aviation oriented. Of course, the Navy provides vital airpower projected from the sea, but I'd rather be land based... This is one of the reasons I really admire/idolize Naval Aviators.. a part of me still wants to fly hookers off of and onto Carriers.. yet another part of me wants to "get down and dirty" as a Marine aviator (aka naval aviators), along with all pride and culture that comes with it..(all usmc aviators, all officers, have the ability to lead as rifle platoon commanders on ground) warriors in the purest sense..

All things laid out on the table, the AF has more things to offer that I desire to see myself getting involved in while serving my country doing what I love: Flying. Of course, I admire all pilots that serve, but the cultural background for each branch's flying communities do differ.. and I will always admire Naval Aviators and their history and strong Naval traditions. I'm just starting to learn and get into AF doctrines and tradition.. I've been a Navy brat since day one. =)

I first was looking into getting a upt slot out of OTS. I realized that this was a difficult way to go in two ways: An AF officer recruiter shunned me away for not having my private pilot's license yet (I've accumulated 21 hours in 172 a few years back- apparently, they prefer much more flying experience from Civ. applicants). The other way I realized OTS was a rough road was that all the research I did online and talking to afrotc cadets and cadre, getting a upt slot in rotc was more realistic than hoping for one out of OTS since the AF has more slots for rotc to begin with.

Learning about PCSM and the whole process really gave me perspective on my goals, and helped me decide that it was possible to become a competitive candidate, if they would only give me a chance by letting me in as a 2 year student.. I would have little problem with drill, as I had 3 years of ajrotc in high school (male fancy drill commander- oohrah!!!) my afoqt is good, I have flight hours, decent pft.. and to top it off, the detachment is going to have a new Colonel starting this fall, so I can work on that commander's rating. All I need is MEPS to complete my package.. and if I get in, the TBAS and Field training are all that's left for me to fight for to prove I'm worthy of flight training...

I can see it all, what I have to offer, how to get there, and I have the potential, and the tools to get it done, to get it done well. All I need is a chance..

Sometimes, I feel as if they won't let me in the program, no matter how much I present myself as ready.. It was the same when I was about to complete my package for Navy BDCP, except I didn't want it as bad as this.. I try to not be excited at all about rotc and getting a flight slot, to prepare for the worse, but It's hard to keep from being excited about it all when you're so close..

Ehh it won't be so bad...... there's always 10-week OCC next summer, if not FT! (yay for pullups and running like a machine ^_^). Very off topic on a tangent, but that's my story.. so far.

Edited July 6, 2008 by N733JL

[Guest N733JL]

Aside from Naval tradition, my motivation first and foremost, was for aviation. I need to be up there.

Ok, My motivation first and foremost should be to become an officer in said branch. Which branch it may be, that's where the decision making starts. What does it mean to be an officer in the AF? the Navy? the MARINES? In the Navy/Usmc, I have an idea and feel, but I don't know yet for the AF. I don't know yet so I can't decide. I'm giving the AF a chance with this rotc thing. So far, not seeing much heart in the AF culture. Honestly, leaning towards Marines.

Edited July 6, 2008 by N733JL

[Guest N733JL]

That Capt is not very good at his job.

From AFROTCI 36-2013

3.3.2. (Exception: Cadets not completing FT prior to the March board will automatically receive FT score of “5”. Once FT is complete, upward adjustment to the OM is authorized based on FT results only).

AND

3.6.2. Applicants must attend FT the summer immediately following the March board in order to have their FT standing adjusted. Update the FT standing in the AFROTC database upon receipt of the FT report but no later than 31 August (see para 1.4.7 and 1.4.8 for board schedule and release date).

I presented these facts to him. His response:

"The two-year program/scholarship is available on an "as needed, case-by-case basis" only. If you have potential cadets to submit, you will need to get their pertinent information and contact MSgt (334-) to determine their eligibility. Otherwise, they may have to become 2.5 - 3 yr program cadets and have to extend undergrad a year, or begin a Master's degree. He mentioned that the two-year program is more commonly used to meet quotas, thus it's availability is always changing."

the two-year program is more commonly used to meet quotas, thus it's availability is always changing

pretty much sums it up..

Edited July 13, 2008 by N733JL

[Guest Hammer]

Yeah, I just got almost the exact same response, verbatim. Trying to remain hopeful, but it's a little disheartening.

One thing I'm a little confused about is the 2.5 year program. If I do that I graduate in December, and Commission within a month or so, I'm still 28. But my AO insinuated that would not really be the case, and it would take longer even if it was a 2.5 year. Does this make sense to anyone?

[Guest Hammer]

Just a quick update. I just received this from my friendly local admissions officer:

I spoke with a person at headquarters and their response is that you may be

eligible to finish and graduate in 2010; however, you do this at your own

risk. . . it is definitely possible for you to go this

route; however, you will need to prove yourself and make sure all boxes

(DoDMERB physical, AFOQT, PFA, etc) are checked.

So basically, I can do it, if I work my ass off. Score one for persistence and lots of research, despite being told it's impossible.

Also, yesterday I got this in a fortune cookie:

I think it's kismet.

[Guest N733JL]

I talked with the Unit admissions officer today. He told me to go to tipoff anyway, and get uniforms and sign up for the llab classes anyway, even though we haven't received word from headquarters on whether or not I'm able to go the two year route.

I was worried that if they said "no", then I wouldn't be able to participate at all in Afrotc, then the Capt. said

"of course you can, but you'll just have to give us another semester".

Turns out the "waiver" we were trying to get through was a sort of permission thing for me to graduate a semester earlier than what the detachment would normally allow (2.5 years participation in the program- although 'sill pushing it').. and that also, the detachment would have no problem with me if I gave them 2.5 years, as opposed to just two.

At this point, with all the waiting and hoping for the chance to participate, I wouldn't mind staying an extra semester

(B.S. biochem).

It seems -to me at least- that it's really not a big deal to be in school a few months longer.. I'd probably still be able to "walk" during the graduation ceremony for the seniors, as if were really done with school in just 2 years, but with a semester's worth left of classes.

Not a big deal at all, so if the two year waiver doesn't go through (AS300 junior year, FT, AS400 senior year)

then I'll just go in as a 2.5 year cadet (double up AS100/200, FT, double up AS300/400)

I'm just thankful that I'm able to participate in afrotc, for a moment I thought I wouldn't be allowed to if the 2 year thing didn't pull through.

[Guest Fatboy Slim]

Hi fellas, I am a 2nd semester engineering freshman in a college that has a relatively small air force ROTC detachment, and I am considering joining up for next semester. The thing is, I was not able to join up earlier because I was still undecided on my career choice (I had ideas that I wanted to be a pilot but was still considering other careers in high school like engineering, medicine, etc) pretty much until now. Additionally, I was also very fat in high school, where I was pretty much the "fat kid", and I have since lost 135 lbs and have gotten into shape, at least somewhere slightly below the maximum weight limit on the PFT chart. There was no way I would have ever been able to start ROTC last semester because of this.

Anyway, as a 3-year guy, I will be at a disadvantage in relation to the rest of my peers when it comes to my cadre's rating. What can I do to show that I have the bollocks to lead and what are some ways I can get noticed in a positive manner in ROTC?

[runnerdm6]

I am a 2-year cadet. I'll be graduating in May. I got a Nav slot. A rated slot is definitely doable if you hit the ground running and volunteer for lots of det activities. As to whether a pilot slot is doable or not, I'd say it depends on the det and timing. If you're coming into a class full of studs ( I came into a graduating class of 5 with the wing commander and a Top Gun from FT), you probably won't get pilot, but nav or ABM is definitely possible. Just keep a positive attitude and be willing to accept that a pilot slot might not happen. The other possibilities are still pretty awesome.

[Guest CA]

Curious question for you folks. I just received my non-select from the 10-01 Rated Board for OTS. I had already planned to go back for my Masters if I was a non-select and that got me thinking, would I qualify to do a 2 year ROTC program while I take my Masters? If so, are my chances better for getting a rated slot through ROTC vs OTS (I'd think so since they slid more Officer slots to ROTC/AFA recently).

Is it something that's doable for someone working a full time job (some flexibility in schedule), a husband and a father to a 1 year old? I know it'll be an additional time constraint and I'm OK with that. I guess what I'm asking is would I be looked at with less fortune if I'm busier than most?

Thought? Opinions? Should I just stick to trying for OTS or would the ROTC be the better chance? I really want to fly, but if I bust the age limit, I'm willing to take anything so long as I can serve as an Officer.

BTW - I did read this whole thread and the "Work while at ROTC" thread. Just trying to get some more recent information that pertains to Master's only ROTC cadets.

[PPTninja]

Definitely doable. I'd simply contact the det at whatever school you're attending. You would have to get started fast because enrollment allocations for field training 2010 are getting ready to be done. The admin officer at the det will be able to get you up to speed on all details.

As for the time constraint. Its not much. A 3-credit class, 1-hour lab and two PT sessions/week. Plenty of guys have jobs and Im sure you could work it in.

[gohornsgo]

Curious question for you folks. I just received my non-select from the 10-01 Rated Board for OTS. I had already planned to go back for my Masters if I was a non-select and that got me thinking, would I qualify to do a 2 year ROTC program while I take my Masters? If so, are my chances better for getting a rated slot through ROTC vs OTS (I'd think so since they slid more Officer slots to ROTC/AFA recently).

Is it something that's doable for someone working a full time job (some flexibility in schedule), a husband and a father to a 1 year old? I know it'll be an additional time constraint and I'm OK with that. I guess what I'm asking is would I be looked at with less fortune if I'm busier than most?

Thought? Opinions? Should I just stick to trying for OTS or would the ROTC be the better chance? I really want to fly, but if I bust the age limit, I'm willing to take anything so long as I can serve as an Officer.

BTW - I did read this whole thread and the "Work while at ROTC" thread. Just trying to get some more recent information that pertains to Master's only ROTC cadets.

I'd like to know what you find out on this if you end up pursuing it, but from what I've heard going through ROTC in a masters program is a no-go right now. Its a relatively new development, I do believe, and I doubt it'll be that way for forever. Just the next few years or so. Then again, my intel on that could be way wrong.

[Guest CA]

@Hokadet - I'm gonna have to probably wait until next year for my Masters to start. Don't think I'll have my finances in order in time to get in this year.

@gohornsgo - I'll let you know what I find out. I'm gonna call the det next week when I know more about my plans.

[Guest knights]

What i've heard recently is that they stopped accepting grad degree cadets for ROTC since there are too many cadets in ROTC currently.

Good luck though hopefully i'm wrong.

[Guest CA]

What i've heard recently is that they stopped accepting grad degree cadets for ROTC since there are too many cadets in ROTC currently.

Good luck though hopefully i'm wrong.

Looks like you are correct. The Major at the ROTC Det 330 just told me that you have to be pursing your first undergraduate degree to qualify. So it looks like those of us going for our Masters are not able. Looks like it's back to applying to OTS for me!

[PPTninja]

I just heard the same. That's really too bad. Apparently, they have a few hundred more AS 200s than enrollment allocations. So, some guys aren't going to FT and have to bee disenrolled from the program. Really sucks. Good luck with OTS.

[killacam]

For all you two year hopefuls out there-- I made it through the program in 4 semesters flat (Spring08 - Fall09). Became categorized as a pilot select after my second semester and even served as CTW/CC in my final semester. It's totally possible if you walk in with all your shit squared away and really put forth 100% effort.

Of course timing, location, and my degree course were in my favor: Came into a small northeastern detachment that was only comprised of 35 cadets at the time of my enrollment. They have since grown to 50-70 depending on the time of year. The fact that I was a Computer Engineering (high demand) major definitely helped my "4 semester program completion" waiver get pushed through by HQ. Plus, my commissioning class is made up of 3.

The only thing that wasn't locked up off the bat was my DODMERB. I submitted the initial paperwork ASAP but the remedial process took my entire first semester to go through. HQ wanted to disenroll me for high arches, but after a few follow up visits and some x-rays with a DOD approved podiatrist, everything was cleared and I was granted an EA to attend FT during Summer08.

[letsgofast]

For all you two year hopefuls out there-- I made it through the program in 4 semesters flat (Spring08 - Fall09). Became categorized as a pilot select after my second semester and even served as CTW/CC in my final semester. It's totally possible if you walk in with all your shit squared away and really put forth 100% effort.

Of course timing, location, and my degree course were in my favor: Came into a small northeastern detachment that was only comprised of 35 cadets at the time of my enrollment. They have since grown to 50-70 depending on the time of year. The fact that I was a Computer Engineering (high demand) major definitely helped my "4 semester program completion" waiver get pushed through by HQ. Plus, my commissioning class is made up of 3.

The only thing that wasn't locked up off the bat was my DODMERB. I submitted the initial paperwork ASAP but the remedial process took my entire first semester to go through. HQ wanted to disenroll me for high arches, but after a few follow up visits and some x-rays with a DOD approved podiatrist, everything was cleared and I was granted an EA to attend FT during Summer08.

That's quite impressive but I'm sure most other people wouldn't be able to handle that.

[Guest AspiringPilot]

Can anyone offer any updates on the two year program? I'm currently finishing up my sophomore year at a university without AFROTC, but we are a crosstown affiliate with the host university being about 1.5 hours away. I just found out about this, and up until now have been planning on applying for OTS, if only my recruiter would have told me.... Is it too late to do AFROTC considering I'll be a junior in the fall? I haven't taken the AFOQT yet. Is it true that in my situation it's possible to attend the extended field training between my Junior and Senior year if I'm accepted into the program or would I be able to even do it this summer? I'm shooting for a pilot slot by the way. Thanks