Studying abroad

[Guest ShortThrow]

How about some Arab countries in Africa? Would those be less harmful to my career? How about American Uni in Egypt?

And Rainman, I expected a lot more from you. I don't appreciate you putting me in the likes of that man just because I want to study in an Arab country, and don't say "you'll need thick skin in the AF" because this is something different.

[ 30. November 2006, 12:36: Message edited by: Tertle ]

[brabus]

What countries...Libya, Morocco, Egypt? - All with terrorist activity. What about Qatar? Guess they're the most "American friendly" out there. Despite the massive amounts of security problems that can and probably will arise b/c of this, you still need to think about how bad you want to fly. A whole year after FT w/o cadre interaction is a knife to the throat when it comes to getting a pilot slot. Have you thought about that aspect at all?

Thanks for making me feel terrible.

Quit complaining and sack up...that's the attitude that has overtaken/is destroying all that was good in the AF.

[Whitman]

Originally posted by Tertle:

And Rainman, I expected a lot more from you.

Classic.

[AFCS_Actuator]

Tertle, even if your intentions are good, which I'm sure they are, it just looks bad if you go spend time "unsupervised" in the region of the world we are more or less at war with. Stop being so SNAPish and accept the answers you're given without getting all asshurt about it. You wanted honest answers and by and large you're getting them. Just because it's not what you wanted to hear doesn't mean that it is wrong. In fact, many here have gone above answering your question to actually giving you suggestions about how to get what you want and not screw things up (ie go with AF sanctioned programs).

Doesn't it seem that first hand experience in Arab lands would be beneficial to the AF and our government?

Big Blue decides what is beneficial and what isn't. If they want you to go to the Middle East to study they'll send you. Otherwise, you'll be popping up (sts) on the wrong peoples' radars.

From all of your comments it sounds like a flying career is not on top of your priority list, in which case you should probably stop considering flying an option, period. Go ahead and live it up in derkistan. However, don't come back here whinning about how you didn't get picked up for pilot or nav if you do.

EDIT for spelling.

[ 30. November 2006, 13:18: Message edited by: Goin2UPT ]

[Guest ShortThrow]

I guess I am failing to realize the correlation between studying abroad in en Arab country and me not getting a rated slot. I wouldn't be traveling until after the rated boards have come and gone. I do however understand the risks of traveling to such places when it comes to a security clearance.

Where do you all think the line would be, in terms of time spent there, where my visits would be construed as detrimental or working against my career? Two weeks, 2 months? Even if I went somewhere like Morocco, Tunisia, Bahrain or UAE?

[Guest Dactyl]

Originally posted by Tertle:

I wouldn't be traveling until after the rated boards have come and gone.

You still have to consider going to your flight physical, taking PFTs, the QFR, clearing up medical issues if you have any, etc.. Essentially you will need to still physically be at your Det at some key points between the time that you categorize and the time that you commission.

I had to deal with all of that with my waiver for study abroad in the UK and I barley managed to schedule everything without issues (my program was only for 10 wks -- not even a semester). In all honesty the best thing for you to do is one of the summer foreign language programs offered through AFROTC, and they do offer a program in Morocco (I know because another cadet from our det went there on the AF dime).

[Guest Jpilot]

Go back and read brabus' post, it's on the mark. Get your priorities straight, then decide what you want to do.

It doesn't matter if you go before or after the rated boards, a slot doesn't do anything for you if you can't get your TS...The question will always come up- Why did you visit xyz nation?

Jp-

[brabus]

I wouldn't be traveling until after the rated boards have come and gone

Well finally some provided info on that part...that's good it'll happen after the boards, but Dactyl brings up a good point on being at your Det to take care of med stuff, paperwork stuff, etc. There's shitloads of it. You still have to go to Brooks.

On a second note, you must graduate/commission in the FY year you are given a pilot slot...so going abroad for a year after getting your slot is not going to work (no way you can just show up 2 weeks before commissioning and say, "lets go!").

[Guest ShortThrow]

Originally posted by Jpilot:

The question will always come up- Why did you visit xyz nation?

I just seems to me that the answer "I went there to study and take classes in a region which my major focuses on." would be a good enough answer. Am I way off on that?

Originally posted by brabus:

Well finally some provided info on that part...that's good it'll happen after the boards, but Dactyl brings up a good point on being at your Det to take care of med stuff, paperwork stuff, etc. There's shitloads of it. You still have to go to Brooks.

On a second note, you must graduate/commission in the FY year you are given a pilot slot...so going abroad for a year after getting your slot is not going to work (no way you can just show up 2 weeks before commissioning and say, "lets go!").

[brabus]

"Some of you might say that I should do everything in my power to get that slot and not worry about anything else, I'm just not that kind of person"

"It's definitely what I want"

Those are conflicting statements. It's definitely what you want, but you're not willing to give 100% to make it happen? Dude, figure out what you really want. I think most will agree w/ me that it sounds like you half-ass care about getting a slot. If you want intel, you'll get it...it's not competitive. Just do that and stop thinking about flying, you have not displayed the right attitude for it. You can piss and moan all you want over that comment, but no matter what, it's true. If you don't want it to be true, then do a 180 and start focusing on getting your ass in gear to get a slot and stop thinking about some dream study-abroad, jerk eachother off in derkastan program. It's one or the other...choose what you want, but the way you're going, you're not getting both.

[Guest ShortThrow]

Originally posted by brabus:

"Some of you might say that I should do everything in my power to get that slot and not worry about anything else, I'm just not that kind of person"

"It's definitely what I want"

Those are conflicting statements. It's definitely what you want, but you're not willing to give 100% to make it happen? Dude, figure out what you really want. I think most will agree w/ me that it sounds like you half-ass care about getting a slot. If you want intel, you'll get it...it's not competitive. Just do that and stop thinking about flying, you have not displayed the right attitude for it. You can piss and moan all you want over that comment, but no matter what, it's true. If you don't want it to be true, then do a 180 and start focusing on getting your ass in gear to get a slot and stop thinking about some dream study-abroad, jerk eachother off in derkastan program. It's one or the other...choose what you want, but the way you're going, you're not getting both.

I realize they are conflicting, but what if I pull out all the stops, bust my ass and get a slot, then my eyes go bad or I shatter my leg, then what do I do?

[Horns05]

Originally posted by Tertle:

[i just seems to me that the answer "I went there to study and take classes in a region which my major focuses on." would be a good enough answer. Am I way off on that?

Yes. If its an accredited program through your school, maybe, but just taking classes somewhere doesn't cut the mustard. AQ teaches classes too. Just cause you say you were getting an education doesn't mean you'll get cleared.

Originally posted by Tertle:

If I did get a pilot slot I'll admit I would probably change my priorities and do everything I can to make sure it happens. But I'm not this stellar cadet who is everything but guaranteed a slot; so I'm just trying to get a back up plan(intel) so if in the case that I don't get a slot, I'll still have something I'm interested in. Some of you might say that I should do everything in my power to get that slot and not worry about anything else, I'm just not that kind of person. I can't push aside the possibility of not getting a slot. It's definitely what I want, but I need to plan for other situations also.

Intel is not about understanding the cultural differences between the West and the East. What you're talking about is what the state department does, not the DoD. Intel gets the job done by helping get bombs on target without getting the pilot shot down; not by telling them why the Dirka Dirka man is smoking a hookah.

If you want to go, please go. I keep waiting for the moment when it clicks and either you stop posting or you say "Well thanks guys, I never thought that wondering around the fertile crescent for a year was a bad idea."

If you don't like your options maybe the military isn't for you.

[brabus]

I realize they are conflicting, but what if I pull out all the stops, bust my ass and get a slot, then my eyes go bad or I shatter my leg, then what do I do?

EASY...you put Intel as your AFSC choice if you should lose your pilot slot for med reasons (on Form 53 after you are given a pilot slot). Then, if something happens and you can't fly, guess what...AF automatically puts you as an intel officer. Exact thing happened to a dude who graduated with me. Intel is not hard to get...its a backup that will work if something happens and you can't fly.

[Guest ShortThrow]

Originally posted by Horns05:

Yes. If its an accredited program through your school, maybe, but just taking classes somewhere doesn't cut the mustard. AQ teaches classes too. Just cause you say you were getting an education doesn't mean you'll get cleared.

Originally posted by Tertle:

If I did get a pilot slot I'll admit I would probably change my priorities and do everything I can to make sure it happens. But I'm not this stellar cadet who is everything but guaranteed a slot; so I'm just trying to get a back up plan(intel) so if in the case that I don't get a slot, I'll still have something I'm interested in. Some of you might say that I should do everything in my power to get that slot and not worry about anything else, I'm just not that kind of person. I can't push aside the possibility of not getting a slot. It's definitely what I want, but I need to plan for other situations also.

Intel is not about understanding the cultural differences between the West and the East. What you're talking about is what the state department does, not the DoD. Intel gets the job done by helping get bombs on target without getting the pilot shot down; not by telling them why the Dirka Dirka man is smoking a hookah.

If you want to go, please go. I keep waiting for the moment when it clicks and either you stop posting or you say "Well thanks guys, I never thought that wondering around the fertile crescent for a year was a bad idea."

If you don't like your options maybe the military isn't for you.

[osulax05]

Tertle... you've gotten the advice that you came for (sts) from a lot of experienced individuals. However, it seems like you keep changing your story/options you are considering in an attempt to get the response you want from everybody (that it's ok to go live in the sandbox). Its time to stop discussing it online and make your decision.

Like everybody else, I'm anxious to hear what you decide and what the outcome is.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Originally posted by whitman:

My friend is a C-17 pilot and vol'd to learn Arabic or Farsi for a year. They sent him up to Washington for a few months of indoctrination and now he is in Jordan learning the language and the culture all sanctioned by the Air Force. This is a very good move for his career and I'm told he's on the fast track as this program is only reserved for a select few.

WTFO?

Fast Track?

Selected Few?

What, are you kidding me?

Dear AFPC,

I would like to volunteer for the career enhancing program where you take me out of the cockpit and send me to Jordan and put me on the fast track as one of the selected few.

Ugh.

[Guest ShortThrow]

Originally posted by osulax05:

Tertle... you've gotten the advice that you came for (sts) from a lot of experienced individuals. However, it seems like you keep changing your story/options you are considering in an attempt to get the response you want from everybody (that it's ok to go live in the sandbox). Its time to stop discussing it online and make your decision.

Like everybody else, I'm anxious to hear what you decide and what the outcome is.

I haven't changed my story because I want more response, I'm changing it because I'm getting some sense talked into me. I hadn't thought about any of it at the time of my original post, and am now starting to get it.

When it comes down to it, if my cadre says that me going would cause me problems, I wouldn't go.

[ 30. November 2006, 18:20: Message edited by: Tertle ]

[Whitman]

Originally posted by Rainman A-10:

Selected Few?

Yep. Only 5 in 2006.

As far as promotion goes, the program is designed for career officers with senior leadership potential and foreign language training (with Big Blues latest FL push) can only help.

[brabus]

Well I think the bigger point is he would rather do some fast track career bs than be in the cockpit...F that.

[Guest ShortThrow]

Originally posted by brabus:

Well I think the bigger point is he would rather do some fast track career bs than be in the cockpit...F that.

Are you referring to me? If so, that couldn't be more untrue.

[ 30. November 2006, 20:08: Message edited by: Tertle ]

[brabus]

No man, I was referring to whitman's friend.

[silverwolf0911]

Would the 16X career fields be more suited for your interests? More international affairs type work for you.

https://usmilitary.about.com/od/officerjobs/a/16xx.htm

[HerkDerka]

Originally posted by Tertle:

How about some Arab countries in Africa? Would those be less harmful to my career?

Why not?

HD

[Whitman]

Originally posted by brabus:

Well I think the bigger point is he would rather do some fast track career bs than be in the cockpit...F that.

It's a great opportunity and it was good timing for him. I wouldn't take it over an ops assignment but would consider strongly if it were either a UAV or staff tour. Back on topic....there are options other than designing your own study abroad program.

[Guest ShortThrow]

Originally posted by whitman:

It's a great opportunity and it was good timing for him. I wouldn't take it over an ops assignment but would consider strongly if it were either a UAV or staff tour. Back on topic....there are options other than designing your own study abroad program.