General ROTC questions

[Guest Samwise]

Hello, This is my first post, but I have been reading up on this forum for a few weeks. I am a Junior in High School and have almost completed my PPL. I hope to go to a state school and pursue my ratings, but I have wanted to serve my country too. I've been looking at all of my options for a pilot slot in the military and have narrowed it down to to the USAF, Navy, and Coast Guard. I want to keep my options open and not miss out on opportunities that will come at me in the next few years. I always thought the AF was for me, but I am unsure if ROTC will be, and the academy is probably out because I'm not an all A student. I was in Civil Air Patrol for half of a year and never even wore a uniform (made the new people dressup in white collared shirts with black dress pants, and dress shoes, and the almighty CAP cadets called us penguins...wow) and quit for a number of reasons. There was so much b.s. going on...including taking 'orders' from a 11 year old fat a** who was incompetant, and very immature. In the beginning it is fine we learned about aviation related stuff, but then it got really and it was 4 hour meetings where we stopped learning about aviation and started learning how to stand at attention for multiple inspections. I can take this s***, but not from a bunch of wannabe military kids who think that I'm there b****.

I'm sorry for this rant, but is ROTC like CAP? I mean its college and I don't want that crap now and I really don't want to be wasting my time for a maybe pilot slot if the commander likes me and go through 4 years of training.

If you went through ROTC would you do it again or go OTS (knowing it would be harder to get a slot)? I really want to fly for the military, but you only go through college once...so any advice for a novice?

Thank you,

Samwise

[Guest Flight]

ROTC is the way to go if you don't alredy have a degree. It's not like CAP, but you will deal with some things that seem stupid. It's just part of the game you have to play if you want to get a commission. It's good that you have flight hours, but thats a small part of the puzzle. You need to focus on having good grades and be active in sports. Get involved with your school some. You have to first get into college before you can get into ROTC. Maybe pick a couple of schools you'd like to go to, and contact the det now to see what you can do to better your chances of getting a scholarship out of H.S.

Now, one thing I see already that you need to squash is the attitude. You need to realize now, that in the military you are always going to be below somebody and have to just shut up and take the kick in the sack without bitching about it. In ROTC YOU WILL have to stand at attention for inspections while some wannabe military kid looks you over. 90% of the stuff you do in ROTC has NOTHING to do with aviation. Everything in ROTC is a MAYBE until you can prove to your CC that you deserve a chance. Attitude is everything in ROTC! How well can you deal with the crap without selling yourself out is key. If you can't do these things, than the military is not going to be for you. It's hard for you to see it now with your narrow minded H.S view, but when you enter the military it's no longer about what YOU want. It's all about what the AF wants to do with you...You have to prove to the AF that you deserve the opportunity to serve it. The sooner you realize this, the better off you'll be. You may very well go through ROTC and end up flying a desk like me, but it's not the end of the world. If you can't accept that fact, then forget about it...You won't make it...

[spectre56]

Flight is right on! I can reiterate the fact that there will be a bunch of BS to put up with in ROTC, but it's all about how bad you want to be an Officer first (nevermind wanting to be a pilot). Having been a Sgt in the USMC and been through part of USMC OCS, I can tell you any commissioning source will have it's share of BS to put up with. Having said that, it was extremely tough for me to come to AFROTC and have kids with 0 military experience telling me what I should and should not do. But I checked my ego at the door and sucked it up (sts). Be prepared to put up with the BS no matter what and worry about becoming an Officer first. Then worry about becoming a pilot...as Flight said, it's all about what the AF wants/needs. Good luck in your decision!

[Guest Samwise]

Hey thanks for the replies everyone! Sorry after re-reading my first post I think I came off with a bit of a ego problem which is far from the truth. I am involved in H.S. sports (soccer) and am active enough in other intramurals where I am in good shape, so thats not really an issue for me. I am sorry if I came off bitter too, but I guess I am just mad that I didn't realize that there was no light at the end of the tunnel for me in CAP sooner, I mean I lost a few Friday nights. Let me re-adjust my questions a bit:

Was ROTC really strict while you were in college? Like if your an athlete in H.S. and you are caught drinking you are coded and can be kicked off the team, is it like this in ROTC?

If you get a scholarship are you committed to joining like the Navy's BDCP program? Is it compettitive to earn one?

How does ROTC work, is it at nights or is it considered a class?

What is the main area of study in ROTC? Military History? Officer Responsibilities? Aviation?

Is it like a 4 year extended boot camp?

I heard the differenc between AFROTC and NROTC is that in the AF everyone wants to be a pilot or nav and it is more compettitive, is this kinda true?

How do you sign up, do you just visit the detachment and tell them your interested?

Do you have to pay for your uniform?

I'm sorry if this is very annoying, but the irony is the two branches of service I don't want to enter (Army and the Marines) are the only ones who try and recruit from my school and I'm quite clueless to what ROTC really is.

[Guest Tertle]

A lot of the questions you are asking can be filled from www.afrotc.com website.

Yes, you will attend an ROTC academic class once a week for your first two years and then twice a week for your last two. There is also physical training in the mornings and a 2-4 hour "class" one night a week that is more physically involved than the academic class, although there are still academics in the 2-4 hour class.

I wasn't in CAP, but ROTC is :rainbow: and most cadets realize that. Well, I shouldn't say most, I'd say about half. The thing you've just got to remember while you in it is that it's a 4 year long game and you're supposed to learn to put up with the bullshit and the cadets who are just douches. I do what I can to get my face time with the cadre and I certainly do my jobs around the det with a smile, but I do NOT enjoy it; but it has to be done. Another thing I always remind myself is that active duty is NOT NOT NOT like ROTC; yes, there will be some things on AD, but it's much better than ROTC.

But believe me, if you want to fly a bird, you'll put up with a lot of crap.

Outside of ROTC most of us are just like any other college student. There are, however, some cadets who only hang out with other rotc people; don't be one of those guy, live your college experience to the fullest. With that being said, it is like sports teams in high school. If you get caught drinking, smoking, whoring or whatever, you can easily get kicked out and if you're on scholarship be forced to repay what you've been given. You can still party, get drunk, chase girls and whatever else floats your boat, but if you're underage or even of age, you've gotta keep it under control because if you Fvck up, you're gone.

If you're interested, find the detachments website and locate the phone number or email of the unit admissions officer and give them a ring, they'll guide you through the rest.

No, you don't have to pay for your uniform, but you do have to put in a deposit in case you burn it in a drunken bonfire or something.

Scholarships are competitive based on the make up of your class within your detachment so it all depends on your classmates.

The area of study during the classes varies from what year you are. Your first year you'll just learn basic AF lingo, customs and courtesies and other crap like that. Second year is about history, third and fourth are more about what you'll be doing on AD and refining the skills you'll need to be successful.

Don't be afraid to ask more questions, but don't be afraid to use the search function.

Good luck, I'd definitely advise anyone who wants to fly to go AFROTC

P.S.- Good on you for flaming CAP, if you had come on here talking about all your CAP accomplishments this conversations would have been much different :)

Edited March 20, 2007 by Tertle

[afcowboy]

I'm currently in my 5th year (yes, 5th year) of AFROTC due to my technical degree. I'll try to answer all of your questions in the order you asked....these are my opinions of course...

Due to the current down-sizing of the Air Force, it is extremely damaging to be caught drinking while underage, or for any alcohal related incident. Only a very small percentage of cadets stay in ROTC after an incident like this. The cadre (officers in charge of the program) must really want to fight to keep you in the program in order for you to survive. That being said, if you have something like this on your record before you enter the program, I have found that ROTC is willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, even when applying for scholarships.....just don't screw up again.

I came in with a 4 year scholarship in Fall 2002. At that time, they were allowing you to try the program for one year without consequence...meaning that if you dropped ROTC, you only had to pay back the AF for the money they spent on your tuition and fees. After the first year of being on scholarship, the AF is allowed to involuntarily enlist you into the AF if you drop ROTC. I have only seen 2 cadets enlisted into the AF on these terms. The others have had to pay back the money. The further you get in ROTC, the more risk of being enlisted you have...both of the cadets were Seniors who decided to drop.

These scholarships are competitive. The best way to earn one is to pursue a technical degree which the AF is always looking for. About 50% of AFROTC scholarships are given to technical degrees like engineering and physics. 25% are given to cadets that pursue degrees that are considered to be a critical need for the AF, like meteorology or electrical engineering. The other 25% is non-technical degrees. So, take your chances. You need to keep your grades up, keep being involved in sports and start thinking of people to write reccommendations for you.

Every university is different in their scheduling of ROTC courses, but generally, mine haven't run past 1800. You have academic courses and then leadership lab. Plus you are required to attend PT sessions and a few other things which might take place on Saturdays...like military balls or dining outs. Your academic courses cover a lot...from Air Force history to National Security issues and Leadership.

ROTC is generally relaxed except when you are preparing for Field Training. Depending on which detachment you go to, this might be a year or only one semester of your training. Field Training is either a 4 week or a 6 week training camp between your sophomore and junior year.

Not everyone wants to be a pilot, but yes initially, most cadets think it's what they want to do. Then they realize it's much harder than they first thought and revert to something else. However, it might seem like that to an outsider...that everyone wants to fly.

You can visit the det of which ever university you are thinking of attending...they are generally very accomodating to potential cadets. They will be able to tell you what you need to do. Speak to the Unit Admissions Officer (UAO)

No, you don't have to pay for your uniforms until you commission as a 2nd Lt. Treat them well though because you are responsible for any damage....and they are gov property.

You can PM me if you want more info....or just ask on the thread and I'll check up on it.

[Guest monkeypoo]

Sam, AFROTC is game, like anything else. A game you gotta know the rules to play. You're going to find some, and in some cases, a lot of the similar crap in AFROTC that you found in CAP. Understand that, but know where you want to be and how to get there. AFROTC can be a mixed bag of trix sometimes for many reasons and some detachments are better than others. I just graduated from a small detachment and am glad to be done because it was full of a lot of cut-throat a-holes (and a few great dudes too), but I learned a ton in the process. Yes, pilot and rated slots are competative, but I've never seen anyone who deserved it, not get one. As long as you put ROTC into perspective you'll be fine. Just know that ROTC is a means to an end. Before I joined AFROTC, I was fortunate that my father was a CSAR (Combat Search & Rescue) flyer, so I had a good idea about what life in a flying sqdn was like as well as what the high motivation of flying dudes was like. So I went into AFROTC knowing THAT was the Air Force I wanted to be part of. In my time in ROTC, I saw a few great cadets get jaundiced by the of ROTC and quit or switched services due to many of the lame things and poor leadership of the cadre at my detachment. But the more ROTC dropped the ball sometimes the more it made me focus on getting what I wanted - which was the pilot slot. The trick is just to remember that it is all a game. Play it well, work hard and you WILL get what you want. And btw, I was accepted to the AF Academy and decided not to go. After doing the ROTC thing and looking back now, I'm still glad I didn't go the USAFA route and would have still gone to the same detachment even after knowing what I know now. Over all, AFROTC is a great program that often has many flaws, but will teach you a lot about yourself. To succeed in competing for a rated slot, keep your grades high (academic major doesn't matter), perform well at all basic military skills, stay out of trouble and keep your eyes on the ball and that's it. Hope you find that advice helpful and rock whatever route you take to military aviation. I'm now on my way to UPT and it feels great. Air power!

[Guest ShineR]

Ive answered the questions many have already answered, but maybe theres a few nuggets in there...

Oh and even if youre not an "A" student, try the USAF Academy anyways, check it out and see what its all about. Looking back at my experience of going through the whole ROTC program, I wish I would have taken my invitation to the Academy. If you have questions about that, PM me.

Was ROTC really strict while you were in college? Like if your an athlete in H.S. and you are caught drinking you are coded and can be kicked off the team, is it like this in ROTC?

Get used to this answer: it depends. It depends on your cadre, it depends on what you did, and it depends on YOU eg if you have good grades, good attitude, etc. As previously mentioned, the AF is cracking down on little things due to manning issues and anything can pretty much end your ROTC career if your cadre does not fight for you. I know of cases where a cadet wasn't the sharpest (no where close actually) got an underage drinking ticket and was gone. Same thing happened for another cadet who was sharp and only got a slap on the wrists. Just be sure you dont screw around, and if you do, dont get caught.

If you get a scholarship are you committed to joining like the Navy's BDCP program? Is it compettitive to earn one?

Yes and Yes, for the most part anyways. If you get a scholarship and contract, you are contracting for 4 years. You will have to do this after your sophomore year anyways if you are not on scholarship. If you lose your scholarship, you will have to pay it back and/or enlist.

As for competitive, some scholarships are more competitive than others, just don't do the EASY scholarship that requires you to be a technical degree...tech degrees = 5 years of hating life and learning something that you will never use.

How does ROTC work, is it at nights or is it considered a class?

Its a class. You have one class were you learn about BS and a Leadership Laboratory where you stand around doing BS.

What is the main area of study in ROTC? Military History? Officer Responsibilities? Aviation?

First two years some leadership, but mainly military history and how to wear your uniform and stuff. After that its leadership and paper pushing skills.

Is it like a 4 year extended boot camp?

No. Unless you are a Texas A&M or VA tech type, because they have what is called a "Cadet Corps," but even then, its not really boot camp, just more BS. Only "boot camp" thing you will do is field training and thats only a month long during the summer between sophomore and junior year.

I heard the differenc between AFROTC and NROTC is that in the AF everyone wants to be a pilot or nav and it is more compettitive, is this kinda true?

It depends. Different classes want more flying slots, some dont want them at all. As long as you're good and dont suck, you should get a slot for something.

How do you sign up, do you just visit the detachment and tell them your interested?

I did exactly that. Look for a website at the local school or give them a call for more info.

Do you have to pay for your uniform?

Not while you're in ROTC, but after you graduate and commission, you can buy them at a discounted rate if you want. You will have to buy uniforms after commissioning no matter what though.

I'm sorry if this is very annoying, but the irony is the two branches of service I don't want to enter (Army and the Marines) are the only ones who try and recruit from my school and I'm quite clueless to what ROTC really is.

Army and Marines have decent programs if you are into helos, though standard of living is different. And FWIW, I would rather be a Marine pilot than a Naval Aviator any day of the week.

Hope this helps

[Guest fartman38]

I apologize if this topic was already mentioned previously, as I couldn't find one like this.

I just want to get it straightened out what I'm going to go through once in ROTC. For AFROTC, do you apply for a pilot slot in your junior year, or after Field Training? If you don't get selected, do you have a secondary choice such as a Nav if you qualify? Pilot Alternative List? How and when does this process all begin? When do you normally get results?

Let's say there are about 30 cadets in a AF Det, usually how many apply for a pilot slot, and usually how many receive one? If you don't, how do some individuals approach the BTG program? Does it qualify for anyone?

And say you received a slot for UPT, do more candidates drop out during UPT? How? And how does the selection list work, such as Bombers, Helos, Fighters, Cargo, etc.

How does this whole huge 'process' work?

And similar process descriptions for the Navy and Marines are also appreciated.

I apologize again if this post was already mentioned.

Thanks in advance

[Guest bdmski]

Wantscheck is a great site as mentioned above.

Basically your junior year you inform them which of the rated positions you would like to apply for. Pilot, Navigator aka Combat Systems Officer, Air Battle Manager, and the new Remotely Piloted Aircraft Pilot. You can apply to all of them or none of them if you'd like. You'll have to rank them in order of your preference. Your junior year around March/April time frame you'll find out if you got any of them or got an alternate. It doesn't matter how many cadets are in your det, rather how many in your graduating class. Those are the people you are competing against not only in your det but nationwide. In my det we had 10 people in my graduating class. 5 applied for pilot. 3 got it and one got an alternate. I applied for all the rated positions and got nav alternate and hear back about RPA pilot next month after the board meets.

As for UPT, people can drop out before they even get there for getting medically disqualified, or perhaps they show up at IFS in colorado and realize that flying is not for them. I'm sure dropping out at UPT is not impossible either. After the second phase of UPT you are put in either a fighter/bomber track, tanker/cargo track, or helo track. Depending on your ranking within your track and the needs of the air force determines what air frame you get if and after you complete UPT.

Hope that helps!

Edited November 30, 2010 by bdmski

[Guest Raptor08]

As mentioned before, here are links to answers to most of your questions:

https://www.wantscheck.com/PilotSlotResources/ROTCPilotSlot/tabid/60/Default.aspx

https://www.baseops.net/militarypilot/

[Autumn Leaves]

*RezThread*

A quick question-- What happens if you run out of money for college (and can't get a scholarship) during your third or fourth year of ROTC? Is that "Game Over", or is there more to it than that?

[rico]

Student loan

[Guest]

Job.

[brabus]

No need to waste your precious time working, the government owes you. Make sure you get every penny you're entitled to. Should be no problem, brah.

[Fuzz]

*RezThread*

A quick question-- What happens if you run out of money for college (and can't get a scholarship) during your third or fourth year of ROTC? Is that "Game Over", or is there more to it than that?

All but one cadet in my class of 13 was on scholarship by the time we graduated. If not, then if you want it bad enough you'll figure out a way.

[Masshole]

*RezThread*

A quick question-- What happens if you run out of money for college (and can't get a scholarship) during your third or fourth year of ROTC? Is that "Game Over", or is there more to it than that?

If you are only talking about ROTC scholarships, expand your horizons and look at all that are out there. There are thousands of scholarships available for college students, so I would assume you can get at least one. They have books at Barnes and Noble that detail a good number of them and outline what you need to do in order to be competitive for one. And like Rainman said, get a job.

[Sketch]

During our end of the year awards ceremony they must've gave out atleast 20 different scholarships and most of the recipients were POC. They ranged anywhere from $500-&10,000 and the criteria was usually pretty straightforward.Trust me there are plenty of ways to get money from scholarships.

[abmwaldo]

Job.

2.