SOS/ACSC information

[Ram]

I'll soon be eligible to start the ACSC OLMP. I am already halfway through a masters program (AMU military studies) which I should finish in about a year and a half. I'm considering getting w/in one class of finishing my masters and then switching to the ACSC OLMP to get some of the ACSC courses knocked out. Once I've completed those ACSC courses then switch back, finish the masters before my first Majors board, and after I get picked up just complete the ACSC requirements. Wondering if anyone else has tried this or if completing my masters would dis-enroll me from ACSC OLMP? Can I switch from the OLMP to the regular ACSC once I'm eligible? Right now I'm married with no kids so if I want to get as much of this BS knocked out as early as possible.

Wow. How are you going to find time for all this between your CGOC luncheons and Christmas Holiday Party planning meetings?

[KWings06j]

AMU takes less than an hour a week. I figure ACSC bs should take about the same. I've managed to recycle papers from one class to the next with minimal editing. As I said I don't have kids yet so if I can get this crap knocked out early then I don't have to deal with it later. I'm not talking about doing the full ACSC OLMP. I don't need two worthless degrees. Just the courses from it that count for ACSC itself. Finish AMU in time for my Majors board then finish ACSC only (not OLMP) after being selected.

As far as my mission planning skills, point taken. I know the futility of debating that on here so suffice it to say flying always comes first. That's why I'm only doing one course at a time at AMU. I could reasonably knock out at least three at a time if I wanted to put actual effort into it. I'm just looking for an efficient way to check all my boxes with minimal effort.

CGOC? That's hitting below the belt.

Edited February 4, 2013 by KWings06j

[pcola]

It seems to me like you're missing the point, so I'll spell it out a little clearer. Scheming a way to do ACSC as a Capt is about as perfect an example of shoe-clerk, CGOC, party planning, pepper grinding, jack assery as I've ever seen.

This culture of "racing to check all the necessary boxes" is a cancer to our Officer corps. It needs to be stamped out. Yet you spend time thinking up a way to game the system and actually take it to another level. You should not have to be thinking about a Masters degree right now, but unfortunately the AF we live in requires it, so go ahead and knock it out. You do not need to be thinking about ACSC right now, so don't. The last thing any of us needs is some a-hole like you to further lower the bar with another idiotic idea to one-up your peers, so that all of your peers feel the need to do the same, so that the new unofficial standard is ACSC halfway complete prior to the Major's board.

And don't even think about replying with a lame ass excuse about getting it all done early so you can have more time for your kids that you don't even have yet and that you weren't even thinking about how awesome you'll be when you have ACSC done before all your buddies. Nobody's buying it. Your plan sucks.

Edited February 4, 2013 by pcola

[disgruntledemployee]

I'll soon be eligible to start the ACSC OLMP. I am already halfway through a masters program (AMU military studies) which I should finish in about a year and a half. I'm considering getting w/in one class of finishing my masters and then switching to the ACSC OLMP to get some of the ACSC courses knocked out. Once I've completed those ACSC courses then switch back, finish the masters before my first Majors board, and after I get picked up just complete the ACSC requirements. Wondering if anyone else has tried this or if completing my masters would dis-enroll me from ACSC OLMP? Can I switch from the OLMP to the regular ACSC once I'm eligible? Right now I'm married with no kids so if I want to get as much of this BS knocked out as early as possible.

Feel the heat? If you read my post in "Making Better Leaders," I shared the following point:

There is one recipe that has shown itself to work more often than not when it comes to getting promotion.

1. Know the game: Masters ASAP, PME when eligible ASAP, volunteer for each and every big additional duty from CFC to AF Ball. These are the elements of DPs and higher points on the promotion boards.

You, my man, are playing this exact game. Some dick on a promotion board will see your scheme and think that somehow in this Gods green grass and blue sky earth that you are a better leader than everyone else and award you some secret extra points. Your peers, on the other hand, will see you as a scheming douche, as noted by some of my collegues postings above.

Out

Edited March 24, 2013 by disgruntledemployee

[C-21.Pilot]

Basically, what they are telling you is don't take any initiative towards making yourself marketable to the promotion board.

As ClearedHot once said (and I paraphrase):

"I didn't make up the promotion rules. Stop fvcking making excuses or downgrading those folks who are playing by the rules."

BL - explore all of your options and figure out what you can do that best fits your needs both professionally and personally. If it means you get a box cutter master's degree then swindle your way thru ACSC, then so be it. If the peeps on the promotion board don't see thru it, then we have bigger problems.

Besides, promotion should be based on future potential rather than what you've done on the past.

Edited February 5, 2013 by C-21.Pilot

[17D_guy]

AMU takes less than an hour a week. I figure ACSC bs should take about the same. I've managed to recycle papers from one class to the next with minimal editing. As I said I don't have kids yet so if I can get this crap knocked out early then I don't have to deal with it later. I'm not talking about doing the full ACSC OLMP. I don't need two worthless degrees. Just the courses from it that count for ACSC itself. Finish AMU in time for my Majors board then finish ACSC only (not OLMP) after being selected.

As far as my mission planning skills, point taken. I know the futility of debating that on here so suffice it to say flying always comes first. That's why I'm only doing one course at a time at AMU. I could reasonably knock out at least three at a time if I wanted to put actual effort into it. I'm just looking for an efficient way to check all my boxes with minimal effort.

CGOC? That's hitting below the belt.

You going to apply for a Joint School after that for their master's degree too? Get that double/triple+Joint "degree" going. Worked for the latest round of O-7's coming up.

[Guest one]

You going to apply for a Joint School after that for their master's degree too? Get that double/triple+Joint "degree" going. Worked for the latest round of O-7's coming up.

Isn't that pretty standard?

[KWings06j]

If i'm forced to waste my time with worthless pay-to-play stuff then I'm going to look for ways to do it when it's conveinint for me. IE when i'm already used to wasting an hour a week on worthless crap rather than spending time with the wife or getting drunk with my peers. If that means I can avoid having to waste that time later in life when I've got more going on, both personally and professionally, seems like a win-win to me...

But, point made. People who are worried about their own performance might take my efforts to get this crap over and done with as a threat to their futures. I guess I'll avoid having any more people jump to foolish conclusions for sake of their own paranoia. Thanks for the advice.

[daynightindicator]

the point is moot since you can't enroll in the joint warfare concentration (the "ACSC" masters) until you're a Maj Select anyway. You also can't enroll in the OLMP if you already have a masters, unless they've changed the rules recently. if I were in your situation, I would just finish the AMU degree and then worry about ACSC in corr. once you've been selected for promotion. hell, by that point, it might not be mandatory anymore, knowing Gen. Welsh's stated opinions on the subject.

for the record, on my board ('03) and in my community, masters was NOT a discriminator for promotion OR IDE selection. we had people with no AAD get picked up for school (they were shit-hot patch wearers) and dudes with an AAD not get promoted (good dudes too, which I didn't understand).

as Boyd said, you can do something or you can be somebody. your choice. either choice will have consequences regarding career, family, and friends.

[17D_guy]

But, point made. People who are worried about their own performance might take my efforts to get this crap over and done with as a threat to their futures.

Except that's not what you said.

[pcola]

Basically, what they are telling you is don't take any initiative towards making yourself marketable to the promotion board.

Not at all. Do your shit, get your degree, go to School, hell, even get all the DGs you can. But don't sell yourself for "the man." Dont waste my parents' tax money on a useless degree, spend some effort on one that will improve you. Don't gun for that SOS DG at the expense of all your bros. And don't escalate what we all see as the problem. How did the Masters degree, or PME by correspondence before in-residence become a requirement in the first place? Because that's what your competition did. So why on earth would someone attempt to make this whole shit show even worse by leading the wave to create yet another unofficial, competition driven requirement? Don't do it. If you do, don't complain about how stupid it is because you ARE the problem.

Besides, promotion should be based on future potential rather than what you've done on the past.

But we all know that's not really the case.

Edited February 7, 2013 by pcola

[NKAWTG]

I'm pretty sure they would never do it, but getting rid of TA for officers will be a step in the right direction. If you have to rely on your own paycheck or GI Bill to fund the AAD, you would have to be more picky about a worthwhile eduction versus a diploma mill degree. That would have to go lockstep with upping AFIT opportunities to educate people who need it for there job instead of assuming having everyone get a masters means you have a better overall force. It could never work because we have 10 years of leadership who substitute box checking for evaluating their people.

[Champ Kind]

I'm pretty sure they would never do it, but getting rid of TA for officers will be a step in the right direction. If you have to rely on your own paycheck or GI Bill to fund the AAD, you would have to be more picky about a worthwhile eduction versus a diploma mill degree. That would have to go lockstep with upping AFIT opportunities to educate people who need it for there job instead of assuming having everyone get a masters means you have a better overall force. It could never work because we have 10 years of leadership who substitute box checking for evaluating their people.

It would also have to go hand-in-hand with a decree from HAF that the Masters is once again masked. Masking it alone isn't going to solve it. People will be paranoid and still go get it for fear that one day, the "next guy" will come in and unmask the AAD, leaving some poor suckers without a chair when the music stops.

Masking it AND saying "no more TA to get BS degrees" sends a much more clear message, and one that would be much more difficult to reverse down the road.

Cutting TA would make it very difficult for upper management to tout the AF as the "most educated" force, though.

Edited February 7, 2013 by Champ Kind

[Jughead]

It would also have to go hand-in-hand with a decree from HAF that the Masters is once again masked.

I'll do you one better and say it shouldn't be tracked at all. That would solve the all-too-real problem of the degree is masked at the board but everyone in the chain up to & including the Senior Rater sees it and racks & stacks accordingly.... It would also accomplish the "too hard to change back" goal you mention in support of eliminating TA, if the entire tracking mechanism is removed.

Career fields that require a degree (doctors, lawyers, Indian chiefs, etc.) can still track it, much the same way that our flying quals are tracked. Why on earth we track AADs for non-AF or non-career-field specific degrees in the first place is beyond me....

[ThreeHoler]

When you hear the sound of an ADP, don’t you get too scared. Just grab your battle buddy, and say these magic words: “Fuck you, ADP. You can suck my dick. You can’t get me, ADP, because you’re just AFPC’s farts.

FML. All my ADP updates randomly reverted to some shit I put in about 15 years ago...after I had saved a copy and verified it was all set. Fucking piece of shit fuckstick system.

[Fuzz]

Feel the heat? If you read my post in "Making Better Leaders," I shared the following point:

There is one recipe that has shown itself to work more often than not when it comes to getting promotion.

1. Know the game: Masters ASAP, PME when eligible ASAP, volunteer for each and every big additional duty from CFC to AF Ball. These are the elements of DPs and higher points on the promotion boards.

You, my man, are playing this exact game. Some dick on a promotion board will see your scheme and think that somehow in this Gods green grass and blue sky earth that you are a better leader than everyone else and award you some secret extra points. Your peers, on the other hand, will see you as a scheming douche, as noted by some of my collegues postings above.

Out

I guess all my fellow 2LT buddies that just showed up to their first operational unit from their schoolhouses that have already started their masters, or the 1LT that just got selected for captain and has started SOS by cor. And their masters are all scheming?

[disgruntledemployee]

I guess all my fellow 2LT buddies that just showed up to their first operational unit from their schoolhouses that have already started their masters, or the 1LT that just got selected for captain and has started SOS by cor. And their masters are all scheming?

I went and fixed my post. I was referring to this:

I'll soon be eligible to start the ACSC OLMP. I am already halfway through a masters program (AMU military studies) which I should finish in about a year and a half. I'm considering getting w/in one class of finishing my masters and then switching to the ACSC OLMP to get some of the ACSC courses knocked out. Once I've completed those ACSC courses then switch back, finish the masters before my first Majors board, and after I get picked up just complete the ACSC requirements. Wondering if anyone else has tried this or if completing my masters would dis-enroll me from ACSC OLMP? Can I switch from the OLMP to the regular ACSC once I'm eligible? Right now I'm married with no kids so if I want to get as much of this BS knocked out as early as possible.

This is the scheming I'm referring to.

Now, responding to your point: There are indeed silly people that sit on promotion boards and will somehow believe that someone that started PME on day 1 of eligibility are somehow the most magnificent leaders since Jesus. Pathetic? Yes. Reality? Yes. Go along? Up to you.

As for the masters, I hope common sense rolls in on advanced degree full retard and the AF says that a masters is not required, nor is it desireable for you to get until you are at least a Capt (preferable not needed until LTC board). I see dudes in training with the masters book open vice the dash 1 or 3-3. Someone's going to get hurt if we continue to play that way.

Until then, AF has said LOUD and CLEAR, your masters is more important then flying planes. Flying planes doesn't get you promoted, but that masters will. Fucked up, absolutely.

Out

[Fuzz]

I went and fixed my post. I was referring to this:

This is the scheming I'm referring to.

I see dudes in training with the masters book open vice the dash 1 or 3-3. Someone's going to get hurt if we continue to play that way.

Until then, AF has said LOUD and CLEAR, your masters is more important then flying planes. Flying planes doesn't get you promoted, but that masters will. Fucked up, absolutely.

Out

Gotcha

Yep knew several people (butter bars like myself at that) simultaneously going through schoolhouses and doing their masters. Good on then for attempting to do both but sorry my interest is in flying for the next 6-9 months before I even consider starting masters. I'm lucky, I'm already at my operational Sqd. And I got almost 3 months before I pin 1LT so I still have a lot of time compared to other bros I know that showed up with 6 months till their capt PRF was due.

Edited March 24, 2013 by Scaredfuzz21

[Champ Kind]

I still have a lot of time compared to other bros I know that showed up with 6 months till their capt PRF was due.

I've seen less than that. No shit.

[ThreeHoler]

Gotcha

Yep knew several people (butter bars like myself at that) simultaneously going through schoolhouses and doing their masters. Good on then for attempting to do both but sorry my interest is in flying for the next 6-9 months before I even consider starting masters. I'm lucky, I'm already at my operational Sqd. And I got almost 3 months before I pin 1LT so I still have a lot of time compared to other bros I know that showed up with 6 months till their capt PRF was due.

No. Not good on them. Unless they are the top wingman, copilot, or whatever because of their knowledge, skill, and flying ability...and they still have free penguins for the AAD. But if they're trading off primary job performance for an AAD, they're absolutely wrong.

Stop perpetuating this crap. You don't need an AAD to make Capt. You need to be good in your primary job.

AAD is for Maj only because the man demands it.

[17D_guy]

I guess all my fellow 2LT buddies... or all 1LT that just got selected for captain and has started SOS by cor. And their masters are all scheming?

FTFY. Every single one of my (non-flying) peers. Some have already completed SOS cor, though I think they were in the old course. We were notified in Dec.

Every. Single. One.

[Fuzz]

I've seen less than that. No shit.

So have I, was just a general comparison based on what I've seen has been the avg time to get to an ops Sqd.

Words.

.

Agreed on all counts, doesn't help that some leadership at the UPT bases encourage starting one once you finish UPT while you have downtime.

FTFY. Every single one of my (non-flying) peers. Some have already completed SOS cor, though I think they were in the old course. We were notified in Dec.

Every. Single. One.

Not everyone I know did was abt 50/50.

[ThreeHoler]

Agreed on all counts, doesn't help that some leadership at the UPT bases encourage starting one once you finish UPT while you have downtime.

Nothing wrong with this, unless they have their pubs already and can start studying.

Perhaps it is my little microcosm of AMC, but I still see the people who do the j-o-b getting the top copilot strats.

At the same time I'll tell you to do your AAD at "the right time"...when you've got a good grasp on your jet and office job, I'll also tell you to get your SOS done immediately when you're eligible because it's so damn easy...if it took any kind of brainpower or time away from the j-o-b, then it might be a different story. Plus, if you wind up in some weird job where you can't do SOS in residence...I know a few people who didn't go because of luck/timing...it's just good to be done. Same reason why I knocked out ACSC as soon as I could and before I pinned on Maj...because I doubt I'll ever go in residence. It feels good to be done.

Right time, right place, right uniform. Oh god, did I just quote G-Lo?

[Fuzz]

Nothing wrong with this, unless they have their pubs already and can start studying.

Perhaps it is my little microcosm of AMC, but I still see the people who do the j-o-b getting the top copilot strats.

At the same time I'll tell you to do your AAD at "the right time"...when you've got a good grasp on your jet and office job, I'll also tell you to get your SOS done immediately when you're eligible because it's so damn easy...if it took any kind of brainpower or time away from the j-o-b, then it might be a different story. Plus, if you wind up in some weird job where you can't do SOS in residence...I know a few people who didn't go because of luck/timing...it's just good to be done. Same reason why I knocked out ACSC as soon as I could and before I pinned on Maj...because I doubt I'll ever go in residence. It feels good to be done.

Right time, right place, right uniform. Oh god, did I just quote G-Lo?

This is true not really much but gouge could we get our hands on prior to going to the schoolhouses, unfortunately only a few I know stopped their masters to focus on flying, most just doubled up. Good advice btw very much appreciated.

[brabus]

Stop perpetuating this crap. You don't need an AAD to make Capt. You need to be good in your primary job.

It's starting to get a bit disturbing how many new guys showing up to the squadron I have to tell KIO on the masters...there is a correct time to do that, and right now is not it. Get into the books that will enable you to kill bad guys and not get you or your bros killed in the process. I don't even blame them, I blame the AF and the assholes who perpetuate this bullshit to impressionable LTs during UPT, etc.

Edited March 24, 2013 by brabus