SOS/ACSC information

[Guest rumblefish_2]

Just curious if any Guard or Reserve guys here have done SOS in residence...alot of the pilots in my unit laugh at going to SOS in residence, but I think it might be kinda fun to hang out with some other folks and get four weeks worth of days. Anyone do it and think it's better to just go correspondence?

[Scooter14]

A LtCol much wiser than I had a chat with me one day when I was an Active Duty 1Lt getting ready to put on Capt. He read an e-mail out loud saying that more SOS slots were progged to open up, to which I rolled my eyes and groaned. He quickly spun around pointed at me and yelled, and I quote..."Lieutenant, if you EVER have the opportunity to do PME in residence, you ****ING DO IT! UNDERSTAND!!!!!"

To which I responded meekly "Uh, yyyyes sir."

IMHO (and I've only been Guard for about 15 months, with 12 of them here at Vance, so take it at face value), PME in residence for a Guard bum seems like a good way to get days, meet people and avoid the ***-pain of having to do it in correspondence. Personally, I had a good time there and I was lucky enough to have cool folks in my flight, but another guy from my squadron was not so fortunate. If it's something you want to do, I don't think it can hurt.

BTW, AirGuardian is "living the dream" at Maxwell right now. I think he's actually finishing up, IIRC.

[Guest navobd]

In residence definitely. At first I didn't want to go either but I'm glad I went. It's AETC fun and games but you get to meet some cool folks and eat all the fried food you can handle. Montgomery isn't the best of places but there are some cool hangouts especially if you like mechanical bulls and cowgirls. The time there will fly by believe it or not and you and your flightmates can go to Atlanta or the coast over the weekends.

[Chicken]

I just made the transition to ACC from AMC a few months back and it seems as if the wing here at Beale gets only a few SOS slots a year?? At least that's the way I understood this at the OG/CC call a few months ago. My buddy at Creech also has heard the same thing where he is.. basically don't count on SOS in residence. Is this an ACC thing? When I was still at Pope SOS in residence was pretty much a given. They even sent a few people kicking and screaming.

[Ram]

Anyone know where to get started on the correspondence stuff? Any websites with a step-by-step, or with gouge?

[Techsan]

I thought that you had to go to your base education office in order to enroll in SOS by correspondence.

As far as slots go, I haven't seen too many come down since I've been a Capt. Most Wings in AMC, from my experience, send those guys who have the most correspondence tests completed. Pretty stupid if you ask me.

Like Eeyore stated, just because you don't go in-residence doesn't mean you will look bad. You just need to have it complete one way or another.

And in case you didn't know already, you can fail each test once as a freebie. Then, if you fail it a 2nd time, you have to dis-enroll, then re-enroll and have to start all over from Test #1.

Hey C-21, you can send some of that gouge my way. I'm needing to take my final test by next month. I'd rather gouge out my eyeballs!!

[Herk Driver]

A few of the bases that I've been to, send the guys that have done the whole thing in correspondence or, at least, have the most tests done. Seems asinine since the guidance out there is that we will not make people practice bleed. I know that doesn't directly apply to SOS but the intent is the same. I won't hold my breath to see a cultural change in the AF.

Practice bleeding

Eeyore, there is no "DG" anymore for SOS. Only "Top Third" now.

Chicken, residence is a little icing on the cake. There are not enough slots available to send everyone anymore, so getting it done in correspondence is the only way to make sure you get it done. FWIW, the only people that I've seen that have to worry are the ones who just don't get it done, one way or the other. Seen several of those that have not gotten promoted.

Edit: clarity

[ 16. January 2007, 03:46: Message edited by: Herk Driver ]

[Guest KoolKat]

So when does one learn of this "select" or "candidate" status?

We already had the promotion board, so is this just another, "If we don't tell you assume that you fit this" kind of thing?

Seems to be an aweful lot of those situations in these them parts.

Furthermore, if I complete the correspondence course and then they choose to send me...what are the implications of saying no, I don't have to "practice bleeding," the 3-star said so. (Outside of the commander hating me for saying shit like that to him...which robably isn't all that new anyways though.)

I'm all for getting it done...my Master's too (I wonder who knows a good place to do that??? :confused: ) However, I'm NOT a fan of doing things twice and would most likely want to get out of such an offer (knowing how I feel bout doing the same thing twice.)

I already know that the main and almost only valid point behind the "offer" is that it "will make you more competitive with your peers," but I don't know if that is a good enough reason for such an assinine waste of time.

hmmm...

BENDY

[Vetter]

What happens if you don't do it? Can I still get out of the AF when my commitment is up?

[Guest C-21 Pilot]

"What happens if you don't do it? Can I still get out of the AF when my commitment is up?"

There isn't anyone holding a gun to ya' making you complete SOS. There has been folks selected to Maj w/ out completing SOS.

Remember, SOS is Professional Military Education (stress MILITARY). If you are 100% sure that you are going to get out (no, it won't hold you back from getting out), then don't waste your time and save the slot for someone else more deserving. However, to caveat - if you are forced in with say, Stop-Loss, it will be to your disadvantage not to complete it. Also, it's hard to predict 2 weeks ahead much less 2 years from now.

Bottom line, while you are in, you are in. (read: "Officer first"). Part of that "education" is to buck up and complete the program. Besides, it's a bullet on a resume' and is can be completed in a few weeks if you really try.

I enrolled in (cough, cough) Dec '05 and am still rubbin' it raw.

[Techsan]

I think I'm going to be deploying right after going to SOS, so I'm thinking about bring the wife and kids with me to SOS. Anyone here do that? Pros/Cons? They may not stay the entire time, but maybe a few weeks. Thats all one can really take of Montgomery anyways.

Thanks for the help,

Techsan

[The Kayla]

I went to ASBC for a couple of weeks, and there was an SOS class there. I met one of the wives, and she enjoyed it. She worked online, so she just brought work to her. The playground is pretty eh. There's not too much to it. There is a really nice shopping center, that has some really cool outletstores, and a kick ass movie theater! I would bet that the SOS would have a "spouse's club" and will also have playgroups and such.

The room is going to be like a studio apartment. one room, one bathroom, kitchen (small) and a pull out couch. With a pretty decent sized closet, that some people put the play-pin (depending on how old your kid is) and let the kid sleep in there. You can get the internet for like $5 or $10 bucks. Maid service everyday if you want.. etc.

Parking is a BITCH.. I will warn you of that now!

I know that I didn't go to SOS, but I hope that helps!

[Toro]

I think I'm going to be deploying right after going to SOS, so I'm thinking about bring the wife and kids with me to SOS. Anyone here do that? Pros/Cons?

Deploying right after SOS is the only reason I could think to bring your family to SOS. While I was there, there were a couple people who brought their spouses, but only a few. It's only a few weeks away from the family and there's not much for them to do while you're in class all day. As far as being 'that guy' who doesn't hang out with the rest of the class, I wouldn't worry about that either for a couple reasons-

1) It's not a UPT class you need to bond with, it's an SOS class. My class only had one (half-assed) extracurricular activity. You're not going to want to bond with most of the shoeclerks there anyway.

2) Even if your family is there, you can bring them to get togethers that your flight puts on.

Don't try to fight it, there's nothing you can do. SOS is coming for you.

[disgruntledemployee]

I once met an O-6 commander that talked about promotion boards. This guy was extremely anal with looking up SOS/ACSC completion dates and comparing them to date of rank, thus giving higher marks to dudes with the smallest time gap. "It showed motivation," he said. So, if you know clowns like this look for this sort of crap, piss-poor officers can game his system and garner promotions, let alone in-residence PME slots. This is probably one of the reasons why good dudes leave the service and turds get promoted.

Stepping on soap box.

Commanders need to know their folks and thus take the time to do so. Group and Wing CCs need to trust their commanders. If they want the best, have a discussion after the weekly staff meeting and have commanders advertise their top people. Alternate units in case of a jump ball. No 1206 can top personal leadership. Otherwise, we're just as well off using a dart board. Opps, I forgot, that's AFPCs methodology.

Still on soap box.

Next week, we can discuss leadership by e-mail. I'm too disgruntled at the moment.

Off soap box.

Out.

[slacker]

How is the ACSC-DL master's program? I heard it's a ton of work. What's the real poop and is there gouge?

[HossHarris]

How is the ACSC-DL master's program? I heard it's a ton of work. What's the real poop and is there gouge?

Well, there's good and there's bad ... but overall I like it. To be clear, we're talking about the correspondence, get a masters and ACSC program. There are 11 or 12 classes to take. Each one is 8 weeks long. You can double up (or more) and take several classes at the same time after you've shown your ability to succeed in the first 3 or 4 classes. Each class usually has a forum style discussion question every week and an 1800 word (6-8 page) essay at the end.

The Bad:

It's long. You can't bear down and knock it out in 3-4 weeks like ACSC correspondence. It will take at least 14 months or so.

There's no Gouge ... and there won't be any (see the good)

It's a constant, slow level of involvement. You can't push for a week and then coast for a month like ACSC correspondence.

The Good:

There are no tests!

It's a constant, slow level of involvement. You don't have to lock yourself away for a weekend to prep for a test.

2 birds with one stone. Sure it's a useless, square filling master's degree. But so is Embry-Ridiculous. And it's not that much more work than regular ACSC correspondence it's just spread out. And it takes less time overall than doing both seperately.

There is a lot of "opinion" and "sociological" and "soft-science" type questions and essays ... so there's no right or wrong answer.

Operational experience is highly desired and rewarded in the discussions and essays .. you can be a flying retard and still score big points by relating things to your experience in the sand box.

Grading is generally fairly generous. There is a lot of writing, but it can be accomplished fairly formulaicly (is that a word?) and you can write to an undergrad type level and do fine. That's for essays ... forum style discussion questions are much more informal.

90+% of the course material is downloadable PDF files. So if you don't really want to read everything, you can search the contents of the course material and easily find references for nearly any point or stance you want to take in your essays, discussions, etc.

You actually learn something. You're not cramming for a singular exam.

If you have more questions ... ask!

[Guest mjk5401]

Slightly off topic, but close enough. When are you eligable to take SOS correspondence? I've heard 6 months prior to pinning on Capt and I've heard a year prior? I've called the education office and they didn't know off hand and still haven't gotten back to me.

[Herk Driver]

When you come out (sts) on the promotion list you can go in and sign-up for the next level of PME.

[Guest Smoke_Jaguar4]

Actual percentages from the last Major's Board (2007):

Overall promotion rate: 94.2%

By promotion recommendation:

DP: 99.9%

P: 78.1%

By SOS completion:

In residence:96.5%

correspondence: 72.8%

None: 6.3%

Bottom line: With a 94% overall promotion rate, you have to be an extra-special fsck-up not to make Major. If you really want to nail it, a DP and In residence won't hurt.

[Herk Driver]

According to the bio he did it by seminar. Isn't that like correspondence plus?

Not exactly. I've never done a seminar but it is basically several folks doing correspondence that get together and discuss the material. For lack of a better term, it's like a study group that meets regularly.

[Flare]

Just doing my part to keep the SOS thread alive....

Anyone on here have any knowledge and/or experience about getting a TAFCS waiver for SOS in residence? Easy or difficult to do?

[Nineline]

Just doing my part to keep the SOS thread alive....

Anyone on here have any knowledge and/or experience about getting a TAFCS waiver for SOS in residence? Easy or difficult to do?

I don't know about other MAJCOM's, but in ACC the waiver authority for TAFCS is your wing commander.

-9-

[Guest BigSkyGuy]

I just signed the paper (I think that's enrolling) yesterday. Here they make you give them 3 days notice to take a test then wait till your score posts (3 days) before you can schedule another test. I think it sucks making the process stretch out way more than need be...oh well

[Guest Big Deal]

Apparently my Ed Center will sign any 1LT up without questions. I am just under a year away from being a Captain. Anyone think it would be a bad idea to go ahead and enroll? I already have my Masters and am getting ready to deploy, so it would be nice to get it out of the way.

[Mild]

Apparently my Ed Center will sign any 1LT up without questions. I am just under a year away from being a Captain. Anyone think it would be a bad idea to go ahead and enroll? I already have my Masters and am getting ready to deploy, so it would be nice to get it out of the way.

I didn't think you could enroll as a Lt. Just wait for SOS until you're a Capt, although a deployment is a good time to knock out PME. Enjoy being a Lt as long as you can, don't waste your time on SOS.... Study airframe/tactics, booze, chicks, anything but SOS.